Where to being with my driver shaft adventure?

[V14_Heels]

I currently play a Cobra Speedzone Xtreme Driver with a Regular Flex 65g Blue Tensei shaft. It measures 44" from tip to tip when it's out of the driver. I'm playing it with the stock 6g weight in the head, but I have a 16g weight that I ordered to increase the head weight by 10g.

Luchnia is going to let me borrow a
Hazardous Smoke 6.0 60G Low Spin that measures 42" from adapter to end of grip
and a
UST Helium Silver 49G that measures 41 5/8" from adapter to end of grip.

My hope here is just to gain some control. I'm all over the freaking place with my current shaft. A clean drive nets me about 250 yards today on humid VA conditions where it's usually damp...i don't have too many hard fairway days.

How would you start to figure out what works best here? I have a launch monitor, but what shaft would you start with? Would you swap out the 16g weight or no?

AND PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF PETE DO NOT RESPOND AND SAY YOU SHOULD GET FITTED. That's just not the answer I'm looking for in this particular thread. I don't want to throw $150 at a fitting right now. I'm just looking for a general approach from some of you guys that have gone through something like this, and can make sense of swing weights and all of that.

 

[jmix18]

I think you should go get.....

I think the question comes around to what are you looking for with your driver shaft? I'm no pro on this nor do I have the knowledge that many do on here but what I figured out was that a firmer tip helped me bring in my dispersion helping me hit more fairways. Depending on where you put the weight will impact the CG and assist in providing certain ball flight.... but again I ask - what specifically are you looking for with your driver in changing the shaft. From there I think THPers can lend more information advice to you - beyond getting fit.

 

[V14_Heels]

I think you should go get.....

I think the question comes around to what are you looking for with your driver shaft? I'm no pro on this nor do I have the knowledge that many do on here but what I figured out was that a firmer tip helped me bring in my dispersion helping me hit more fairways. Depending on where you put the weight will impact the CG and assist in providing certain ball flight.... but again I ask - what specifically are you looking for with your driver in changing the shaft. From there I think THPers can lend more information advice to you - beyond getting fit.

And this a prime example of where I just don't know what a fitting would do for me cause I don't even know how to answer that question. There are 3 scenarios that happen in my current drive.

1. A hard pull left that is almost never playable. Great contact but a straight as an arrow bee line to the left with what I would call mid trajectory.
2. A slice to the right, that starts in the center and slices hard to the right that has much higher trajectory.
3. The good one. Where it starts along the left side of the fairway and has what I would call a GOOD fade. Kind of like a power fade, but this is the one that'll net me 230-250. I'd say this is at a mid trajectory.

I just dont' know that I'm good enough with my driver to really demand or ask for what I want. I mean we all want to hit straighter, with tighter dispersion. I have the same swings with my 5W but they aren't NEAR as dramatic. I almost never pull left with a shorter shaft. I only have that pull left with my longer shaft, so I hope it eliminates that all together. I can have a higher lofty slice with my 5 wood but seldom is it unplayable, and it isn't near as lofty.

No clue if that answered your question, but that's kind of the best I got?

 

[Muchmore]

Get a baseline on your LM with your current shaft and go from there. Put the heavier weight in with your gamer. Then go back to standard weight with both shafts and then add the weight with both shafts. It's essentially trial and error without knowing why your dispersion with your current shaft isn't where you want it to be. Is it too much spin, is it swing path or face angle.

Just work through those three shafts and see what comes out on top. The shorter shafts if anything, should help you control the ball a little more consistently

 

[JB]

Based on that, you are coming over the top and steep at the ball. I hate being the person that says it, but a shaft isn’t going to correct that. I certainly wish it could.

 

[Parrot]

Trying the driver shafts won't hurt anything. I agree with @Muchmore18 as to conducting the testing. But, I'm not sure it is a shaft issue.

 

[Muchmore]

Trying the driver shafts won't hurt anything. I agree with @Muchmore18 as to conducting the testing. But, I'm not sure it is a shaft issue.

When mine posted, I hadn't seen his reply about what's going on lol

 

[YukonLiving]

@V14_Heels have you ever caught slow-motion video of your swing? Both from face on, and directly behind you? I'd really like to see that first since I agree with @JB and it sounds like you might be coming OTT.

I can say this since it's a swing that I fight too coming from other sports like baseball and hockey and even though I felt like my swing was good, it took me seeing video to really understand what I needed to work on.

Also, what sort of launch monitor - what data points are you able to capture?

 

[Chef23]

Based on that, you are coming over the top and steep at the ball. I hate being the person that says it, but a shaft isn’t going to correct that. I certainly wish it could.

Agreed. Short of fixing the swing I think going heavier will be better than going lighter for that issue. I am not sure what your SS is but I would think about looking at some 70g or heavier driver shafts. I don't think the 49g shaft is going to be the answer.

 

[JB]

Agreed. Short of fixing the swing I think going heavier will be better than going lighter for that issue. I am not sure what your SS is but I would think about looking at some 70g or heavier driver shafts. I don't think the 49g shaft is going to be the answer.

Ironically enough I was able to with going lighter.

 

[Chef23]

Fixing OTT swings is hard. I have a slight OTT action to my swing. It is repeatable and I control the clubface well so I can play with it. Shafts do impact how I score though. When I was faster with the driver I was more consistent with heavier shafts. I have learned over the past year a shaft that is too soft in the tip in my irons will tend for my misses to be worse than something that is a bit stiffer. I sacrifice distance on my good swings but my results with poor swings are better and my scores are better as a result.

Like everyone I am trying to improve my swing but I also try to find equipment that optimizes my results on the course.

 

[Chef23]

Ironically enough I was able to with going lighter.

That is interesting I got better results with heavier shafts.

 

[V14_Heels]

I feel like this part was lost with the responses and feel it's important to retierate, "I almost never pull left with a shorter shaft. I only have that pull left with my longer shaft, so I hope it eliminates that all together. I can have a higher lofty slice with my 5 wood but seldom is it unplayable, and it isn't near as lofty."

Yes. I undoubtedly have a struggle with an OTT swing, and most likely will for months or years to come. That's precisely why my thought process is shortening my shaft a couple inches to try and replicate my 5W where most of my shots are still playable vs. unplayable. Do I see a slice on my 5w still...yea on occasion for sure, but I'm hoping that I can make my slice far less punishable with a shorter shaft while still keeping it around 225-230 yards, and I was more trying to understand when people typically reduce shaft length do they tend to add weight, or subtract it in the shaft? in head?

 

[V14_Heels]

Based on that, you are coming over the top and steep at the ball. I hate being the person that says it, but a shaft isn’t going to correct that. I certainly wish it could.

I have a legitimate question here that you have me pondering now, that's going to take this thread down another path, but I really want to understand this. How can this thought process exist in conjunction with high handicappers should get fit for a driver? And I'm not actually saying that is your belief JB, you might be anti-fitting for a high handicapper, I have no idea, so don't feel singled out, this is really more of a general question.

But I often see people say there are benefits to getting fit for a high handicapper, it's sold all over the place, and to me these two thoughts can not possibly co-exist. Where are all of these high handicappers that have consistency in the driver swing? A handicap that sits between 20 and lets say 35 is going to have the same swing profile that I just stated up above.

I have 7 friends and they are all in that window, and they all fit that swing profile that I basically stated above. Some of them may hook instead of slice, but all in all it's the same difference in terms of it's probably 1 out of 3 is pulled/pushed, 1 out of 3 is sliced/hooked, and the 3rd is a good drive. If shafts can't help any of that then what is the point to ever getting fit as a high handicapper? I just do not see how those two thoughts can coexist, they contradict each other don't they?

I'm legitimately asking this question and trying to understand it. In fact, maybe I should save this question for Callaway and True Temper at the Dream Foursome. Bingo bango!

 

[JB]

I have a legitimate question here that you have me pondering now, that's going to take this thread down another path, but I really want to understand this. How can this thought process exist in conjunction with high handicappers should get fit for a driver? And I'm not actually saying that is your belief JB, you might be anti-fitting for a high handicapper, I have no idea, so don't feel singled out, this is really more of a general question.

But I often see people say there are benefits to getting fit for a high handicapper, it's sold all over the place, and to me these two thoughts can not possibly co-exist. Where are all of these high handicappers that have consistency in the driver swing? A handicap that sits between 20 and lets say 35 is going to have the same swing profile that I just stated up above.

I have 7 friends and they are all in that window, and they all fit that swing profile that I basically stated above. Some of them may hook instead of slice, but all in all it's the same difference in terms of it's probably 1 out of 3 is pulled/pushed, 1 out of 3 is sliced/hooked, and the 3rd is a good drive. If shafts can't help any of that then what is the point to ever getting fit as a high handicapper? I just do not see how those two thoughts can coexist, they contradict each other don't they?

I'm legitimately asking this question and trying to understand it. In fact, maybe I should save this question for Callaway and True Temper at the Dream Foursome. Bingo bango!

Getting fit to maximize what one is working with is different than a shaft fixing the pull or swipe slice. One can definitely get fit to maximize the distance and dispersion of that miss, but the shaft isn’t going to fix it Or even mitigate it a ton.

Fitting is also a lot more than just shafts.

 

[Chef23]

I have a legitimate question here that you have me pondering now, that's going to take this thread down another path, but I really want to understand this. How can this thought process exist in conjunction with high handicappers should get fit for a driver? And I'm not actually saying that is your belief JB, you might be anti-fitting for a high handicapper, I have no idea, so don't feel singled out, this is really more of a general question.

But I often see people say there are benefits to getting fit for a high handicapper, it's sold all over the place, and to me these two thoughts can not possibly co-exist. Where are all of these high handicappers that have consistency in the driver swing? A handicap that sits between 20 and lets say 35 is going to have the same swing profile that I just stated up above.

I have 7 friends and they are all in that window, and they all fit that swing profile that I basically stated above. Some of them may hook instead of slice, but all in all it's the same difference in terms of it's probably 1 out of 3 is pulled/pushed, 1 out of 3 is sliced/hooked, and the 3rd is a good drive. If shafts can't help any of that then what is the point to ever getting fit as a high handicapper? I just do not see how those two thoughts can coexist, they contradict each other don't they?

I'm legitimately asking this question and trying to understand it. In fact, maybe I should save this question for Callaway and True Temper at the Dream Foursome. Bingo bango!

I would say that a fit could help minimize your misses but they aren't going to completely fix your problem.

Balls that start left and go farther left, shots that start down the left side and fade to the middle and balls that start left and go way right are all the same swing path with different face angles. A closed face angle to swing path starts left and goes left. When the face angle is closed less than the swing path you get the ball that starts left and winds up in play. If the club face is square or open to swing path and the swing is OTT then the ball will go much farther right.

 

[V14_Heels]

Fitting is also a lot more than just shafts.

This part is entirely fair. That's a good point for sure.

But I'm not asking the shaft to fix my pull or swipe slice. I acknowledge that exists and is there. That was never what I was after here. I am trying to maximize the dispersion of that miss though, because like I said the dispersion of that miss in my 5W isn't near as bad.

 

[V14_Heels]

I would say that a fit could help minimize your misses but they aren't going to completely fix your problem.

Balls that start left and go farther left, shots that start down the left side and fade to the middle and balls that start left and go way right are all the same swing path with different face angles. A closed face angle to swing path starts left and goes left. When the face angle is closed less than the swing path you get the ball that starts left and winds up in play. If the club face is square or open to swing path and the swing is OTT then the ball will go much farther right.

I love this explanation while hating it so much lol. I don't know that I fully conceptualized that until you just put it that way. Ugg. I'm not sure I'll ever be able to fix that OTT fully. And what's super interesting about this explanation is I can sort of relate how this goes. I wouldn't of been able to define my swing like this 4 months ago, but I'm starting to feel it more.

If I grip down on the club TIGHT at impact which I'm prone to do I get the ball that starts middle and slices hard right.
If I remember to keep my grip LOOSE at impact but not TOO loose I'll get what I call that power fade or sometimes even straight.
If I get WAY TOO LOOSE then I get the pull deep left into the woods.

And none of that makes any sense to me because I would think it's the exact opposite. I would think tightening my grip would close the club face, and loosening it would open it?

Editing cause I just found this. I would love to experience something in the purple someday.
I basically have these 3...
Slice
Pull Slice
Pull

 

[Chef23]

I love this explanation while hating it so much lol. I don't know that I fully conceptualized that until you just put it that way. Ugg. I'm not sure I'll ever be able to fix that OTT fully. And what's super interesting about this explanation is I can sort of relate how this goes. I wouldn't of been able to define my swing like this 4 months ago, but I'm starting to feel it more.

If I grip down on the club TIGHT at impact which I'm prone to do I get the ball that starts middle and slices hard right.
If I remember to keep my grip LOOSE at impact but not TOO loose I'll get what I call that power fade or sometimes even straight.
If I get WAY TOO LOOSE then I get the pull deep left into the woods.

And none of that makes any sense to me because I would think it's the exact opposite. I would think tightening my grip would close the club face, and loosening it would open it?

Your description on grip makes sense to me. If you have a death grip on the club it is difficult to release your hands which keeps the clubface open. If you are super loose you might over release the club and get the face shut down. The right grip pressure could wind up with a release pattern that lets you hit the ball the way you want.

You can play with an OTT move that isn't too severe. It prevents you from hitting some shots like a real draw that starts right and curves to the left. Bruce Lietzke made a ton of money on tour with an OTT move and he never drew the ball.

I played between a 0-2 for a long time with an OTT move but it was repeatable and I knew where the ball was going. I did learn to draw a 3W under duress but it wasn't as dependable as my normal swing.

 

[V14_Heels]

Your description on grip makes sense to me. If you have a death grip on the club it is difficult to release your hands which keeps the clubface open. If you are super loose you might over release the club and get the face shut down. The right grip pressure could wind up with a release pattern that lets you hit the ball the way you want.

You can play with an OTT move that isn't too severe. It prevents you from hitting some shots like a real draw that starts right and curves to the left. Bruce Lietzke made a ton of money on tour with an OTT move and he never drew the ball.

I played between a 0-2 for a long time with an OTT move but it was repeatable and I knew where the ball was going. I did learn to draw a 3W under duress but it wasn't as dependable as my normal swing.

I like you Chef. I mean I'd be in heaven at just a 10 handicap. And so you are starting to tip toe into exactly what I'm trying to do. I'm trying to see if a shorter shaft can just make my OTT somewhat more playable.

I always interpreted a "release" as letting the club face "open". The way you just defined a release is more of a close of the face now an open. I just don't fully understand what "release" means still I guess.

 

[Parrot]

I like you Chef. I mean I'd be in heaven at just a 10 handicap. And so you are starting to tip toe into exactly what I'm trying to do. I'm trying to see if a shorter shaft can just make my OTT somewhat more playable.

I always interpreted a "release" as letting the club face "open". The way you just defined a release is more of a close of the face now an open. I just don't fully understand what "release" means still I guess.

This might help

Golf Swing - Illustrated Definitions & In-Depth Guide | Golf Distillery

The golf swing is broken down into its many phases: pre-shot routine, address (setup), takeaway, backswing, top of the backswing, downswing, impact, release, follow through. Terms such as swing plane, tempo (rhythm) and timing are also explored.

www.golfdistillery.com

 

[Luchnia]

Some golfers that slice do not swing OTT. I would even go as far as to say most have a very good swing. It quite often is setup problem that creates the out to in swing path. I don't know how many times when I told someone that I sometimes would slice the ball they would immediately respond with the OTT issue, which was never my problem. I worked like crazy to mitigate OTT but was chasing the wrong fix and demolishing my regular swing. All I needed was to focus on getting the path correct.

Once I changed the swing path - end of slice. The problem I have is that I will go back to the wrong swing path with the driver way too frequently especially when I am fatigued and causes a bad shot. I can actually draw my woods quite a bit and sometimes my driver when I focus on forcing the in to out path. I have to make myself feel I am releasing my driver out toward the right on follow through.

The other day a guy I play with was on the range and he would slice ball after ball. He was struggling and I said turn your shoulders to the right a little and raise the grip end of the club slightly, now hit some. He was hitting solid ball after ball straight as could be, but it wasn't too long before he forgot what worked and went back to his old setup slicing balls again.

 

[JB]

Some golfers that slice do not swing OTT. I would even go as far as to say most have a very good swing. It quite often is setup problem that creates the out to in swing path. I don't know how many times when I told someone that I sometimes would slice the ball they would immediately respond with the OTT issue, which was never my problem. I worked like crazy to mitigate OTT but was chasing the wrong fix and demolishing my regular swing. All I needed was to focus on getting the path correct.

Once I changed the swing path - end of slice. The problem I have is that I will go back to the wrong swing path with the driver way too frequently especially when I am fatigued and causes a bad shot. I can actually draw my woods quite a bit and sometimes my driver when I focus on forcing the in to out path. I have to make myself feel I am releasing my driver out toward the right on follow through.

The other day a guy I play with was on the range and he would slice ball after ball. He was struggling and I said turn your shoulders to the right a little and raise the grip end of the club slightly, now hit some. He was hitting solid ball after ball straight as could be, but it wasn't too long before he forgot what worked and went back to his old setup slicing balls again.

Good news in this case is the diagnosis was right based on the response from the OP. It was less about “just the slice” and more about the rest listed that gave it away.

 

[Luchnia]

V14_Heels
Do you have problems with your irons too, or primarily your driver?

 

[V14_Heels]

V14_Heels
Do you have problems with your irons too, or primarily your driver?

Not really. I mean it's Golf exactly like you said today, so I can see an occasional slice in an iron, but no I'd say overall I get more straight irons than slices.