which specs are best for the average golfer ?

JB

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Remember, the OP question is do you you agree that the following 3 points are common ones from every major golf club brand ?

1) big heads are better than small heads
2) graphite shafts are better than steel shafts
3) lighter shafts are better than heavy shafts
Asking again because I’m genuinely interested. Where are these statements from “every major OEM” that graphite is better than steel? I have been searching and can’t find anything.
 

Smiter

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Asking again because I’m genuinely interested. Where are these statements from “every major OEM” that graphite is better than steel? I have been searching and can’t find anything.
Like a dog on a bone, 😂

Now I’m invested. Ha.
 

JonMA1

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Regardless of the "get fit" message, do you agree that the above 3 points are common ones from every major golf club brand ?
I have not noticed any of those three messages. I don't look at new equipment from the major brands very often nor do I listen to many podcasts. The only consistent message I see/hear it is to "get fitted". None of the men's iron sets at our local golf shop are displayed with graphite shafts and I can't remember seeing anything on equipment ads promoting graphite. From my very limited experience, the opposite seems to be the case.

As far as fitters, I've been to a couple and neither suggested graphite iron shafts even after I asked about them. Last year, I gambled and had new iron set built with graphite shafts. Those shafts are a substantial improvement over the steel shafts I'd always used.
 

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Remember, the OP question is do you you agree that the following 3 points are common ones from every major golf club brand ?

1) big heads are better than small heads
2) graphite shafts are better than steel shafts
3) lighter shafts are better than heavy shafts
Since none of those things have come from major golf club brands, I disagree.
 

Junkyard

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The "best" specs for the "average" golfer are "average". If a hot pink shaft provides the best distance, tightest dispersion, ball speed, etc. then the hot pink shaft is the best spec. If a club-head that only has half as many grooves as normal provides the best performance then that is the best spec. My "best" will be different than yours, Jman's, JB, etc.

Advancement in club design techniques (Artificial Intelligence, multi-materials, etc.) has erased the "larger is better than smaller" argument. Just look at the testing during the showcase with the new Apex lines. Every golfer should try at least a handful in order to find which one performs the best for them.
Graphite shafts can benefit just as many golfers as any of the steel shafts can. That's why they make so many different models; each option works slightly different from the next. Every golfer should try at least a handful in order to find which one performs the best for them.
Shaft weight, again is 100% dependent on the golfer. I will move a club through a swing differently than you, different than Jman, JB, etc. I may need a lighter shaft in order to achieve the same CHS that JB might get with a heavier shaft. That's why they make so many different models; every golfer should try at least a handful in order to find which one performs best for them.

Henry Ford once said "you can have any color you want as long as it's black". Did that make black the best color to have?
 

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Advancement in club design techniques (Artificial Intelligence, multi-materials, etc.) has erased the "larger is better than smaller" argument. Just look at the testing during the showcase with the new Apex lines. Every golfer should try at least a handful in order to find which one performs the best for them.
To me the current Apex models all have relative large heads. So, I think a club company's definition of large or small head might be different than some player's definition of same.
 

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1. Wrong
2. Wrong
3. Wrong
 

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Is this really a thing? Do average golfers who hit a driver 220 yards look to play with the same clubs as touring pros who hit it 300? I’m an above average player who doesn’t hit it very far but I’d never even consider playing the same clubs as Tiger or anyone in the PGA. How could the same clubs they use help me with my game?
It’s not a thing for me but I definitely know some people that feel that way.
 

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I’ve never seen any company actually say those things. In fact, I’ve posted the video here multiple times of Ping’s Head of Engineering saying from a physics standpoint it’s easier to square up a smaller club head.

I so think the companies do research and offer products with heads/shafts paired to fit as many players as are likely to purchase a given product. For example, most SGI/GI clubs have a stock graphite option while most players cavity backs or MB’s usually have X100’s or something similar as a stock option.
 

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I personally think heavier steel shafts are much better for dispersion. Not so great for distance though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Have not heard them say anything other than get fit.

1) No, haven't heard it -- big heads are better than small heads
2) No, haven't heard it-- graphite shafts are better than steel shafts
3) No, haven't heard it -- lighter shafts are better than heavy shafts

No absolutes exist in golf other than I don't hit it far and straight enough for my long suffering ego.

Bigger heads - I assume they mean MOI/Forgiveness. Good for a majority of golfers. In general, not as good for low caps who want to work the ball or possibly get a bit more clubbed speed from a more compact head.

Graphite - In general, they are great for the long term health of your body.

Lighter shafts - Please don't buy into this myth. I tried 70-80g shafts in irons and 43-55g shafts in drivers. I am getting better consistency and similar yardage with 95g graphite in irons, 64g in driver, 75g in fairways, and 85g in hybrids - OF COURSE, that all depends on the shaft design.

In general, I'd disagree on the fairway and hybrids for me because I have had past issues with getting enough height on fwys and hybrids until I went low kick. But I find Accra FX 2.0 200 series shafts (mid launch, mid spin), which are a series where you can buy the Driver, Fwy and Hy shafts - all purposely matched with similar performance characteristics - may work for me. At least the Fwy does and now I am installing the Hy shaft, and if that works, I'll get the driver shaft. Accra seems to smooth out the transition points in the shaft. They are one of those maverick companies.

Good luck.
 
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RayG

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In large part because there is no average golfer, or at most, very few of them.
I was thinking the same thing. An "Average" is the mid ground of many parts.

What if the powers that be had halted the advancement of tech and materials in say, 1980ish?

We would all be complaining about the same things or working to correct the same faults. There would be somebody like BDC hitting miles past everyone else using the same equipment. Just like Jack back in the day- he was outdriving everyone with the same equipment, and other players grumbled back then. As someone back then was quoted: "He plays a game I am unfamiliar with...".
It would be a bit more difficult to learn to play well based on steel shafted, small headed Drivers, forged irons the size of business cards, and putting with a classic Bullseye style putter would drive everyone nuts. BUT- there would be greater satisfaction in playing well with that equipment. An "average" golfer would probably shoot the same scores because it isn't the arrows, it's the Archer.
Personally, I feel that the new tech has been more of a negative to my game. I developed a swing that suited the older style equipment and balls. Moving to the lighter, graphite shafted, over-sized drivers messed up that "feel" of knowing where the head was at all times. I'm missing more fairways now that I ever did with my $30 bargain bin, tiny headed, 7*, steel shafted driver. And not because it's longer (it isn't, really, as far as I'm concerned), it's that I can't find the 'slot' as often.
In "my" perfect world, beginners would use those smaller drivers and blades to learn technique and groove that swing. Once that happens you can move into a bit more forgiving clubs. Everyone that picks up a club wants to hit it 300 in a week. When they do, they complain it's 50 yards offline and buy a club "designed" to straighten out that slice without fixing the inherent flaw that caused it in the first place. And THAT is where the marketing guys earn their money. (sorry, a bit of a ramble)
 

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@DG_1234 just so I'm clear, in your OP you're asking if major golf brands market those three specs/points as important, not whether or not we agree with them, correct?
 

DG_1234

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@DG_1234 just so I'm clear, in your OP you're asking if major golf brands market those three specs/points as important, not whether or not we agree with them, correct?
You get an A for reading comprehension :)
 

JB

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@DG_1234 just so I'm clear, in your OP you're asking if major golf brands market those three specs/points as important, not whether or not we agree with them, correct?
Its a bit confusing, but it says OEMs are talking about these things from multiple sources (videos, podcasts, etc), yet it appears nobody has seen the same claims. Asked for links because it is pretty fascinating, but none have been given.
 

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I can't say I have ever seen any of those claims from manufacturers

For me, none of them applied when I was fitted for my current clubs
 

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I don't think any of those are accurate. I'm very much an amateur, but require smaller soled irons to get proper turf interaction. I also use heavier shafts because lighter shafts get me coming OTT and mess up my tempo. The main thing is get fit to see what you actually require for your specific delivery.
 

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There is no best for everyone that shoots 90 or above. They all get there by taking different paths..

As for graphite. The promotion of it is taking on but I have yet to hear anyone out and out say it is better. Except for shaft companies. I have hear fujikura, Mitsubishi etc promote the merit of composite shafts in irons etc.

I think callaway on their fitting room podcast talked to Mitsubishi and had a conversation about the potential benefits of composite shafts but I would not say they said it is better than steel for everyone.

As a oem it seems it would be fairly bad for business to say “hey graphite is best”..

Cuts a lot of ties with partner companies by saying such.
 

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Here is a link to a recent THP Podcast featuring an OEM employee supporting point #2 of the OP, that is graphite better than steel.

 

DataDude

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You've written posts extolling the merits of graphite and, or, that players should consider graphite for their irons.
I think it's important to note that just because graphite has benefits over steel that steel also has benefits over graphite. They both perform differently and give different benefits. Each golfer has to choose what they want.
 

tahoebum

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We are all different, and so is our equipment. I'm average size at 5'11(shrunk that last decade) 185ish pounds, and my specs are much different than one of my buddies that is the same height and swing speed. His shaft flex, iron lengths, driver length, and lie angles are all different than mine. So is the offset he likes and the kick point and torque he was fit into. He prefers a heel-shafted putter, and I prefer a center shafted or double bend.

My son swings much faster than I do but likes the feel of a lighter, regular flex iron shaft, and I prefer the feel of a heavier DGX100 even though the best fit for my SS and transition would be in an S300 or S400.

I'm a little crazy about sound, especially with a driver, and I won't play one that doesn't sound right to me even if it performs well.
 

DG_1234

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I think it's important to note that just because graphite has benefits over steel that steel also has benefits over graphite.
I agree with you 100%, but this thread is about the agenda commonly pushed by OEMs, in the OP listed as points 1, 2, and 3. My previous post had a link to a podcast from an OEM declaring that graphite is better than steel.
Now here below is a link from a THP Podcast where JB asks (6:00 minute mark) the OEM employee whether a smaller size club head may be easier to square at impact than a larger club head. Sadly, instead of answering the question, but instead chooses to talk about "20 years of design improvements, use of CAD, MOI, ball speeds etc..."
So, this one I relates to point 1 of the OP, that is "bigger is better".

 

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I agree with you 100%, but this thread is about the agenda commonly pushed by OEMs, in the OP listed as points 1, 2, and 3. My previous post had a link to a podcast from an OEM declaring that graphite is better than steel.
Now here below is a link from a THP Podcast where JB asks (6:00 minute mark) the OEM employee whether a smaller size club head may be easier to square at impact than a larger club head. Sadly, instead of answering the question, but instead chooses to talk about "20 years of design improvements, use of CAD, MOI, ball speeds etc..."
So, this one I relates to point 1 of the OP, that is "bigger is better".

That’s not the question that was asked. The question asked was what do you say to the person who claims iron design hasn’t changed and also says that the older smaller irons were easier to square up. That’s why Chris then goes to discuss the improvements over the years, which makes perfect sense as an answer, and is not pushing an “agenda”.
 

JB

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Here is a link to a recent THP Podcast featuring an OEM employee supporting point #2 of the OP, that is graphite better than steel.

Wait. You mean the person that works for a graphite shaft company thinks graphite is better than steel?

That is about as shocking as the diatribe in every thread 😂
 

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Wait. You mean the person that works for a graphite shaft company thinks graphite is better than steel?

That is about as shocking as the diatribe in every thread 😂
I was going to say the "agenda" of OEMs is to sell equipment. If the OEM is a graphite shaft manufacturer you bet your butt they are going to talk about all the benefits that graphite has over steel.

Which is why THP is great. All the OEM's are welcome to come to this platform and share their knowledge and yes their marketing.
 

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