Why are more chippers not used by mid-high handicappers?

[Luchnia]

Luchnia's post a couple above this is also what I was curious on. JB and a couple others have talked about the versatility you lose by playing a chipper greenside instead of a regular wedge, and my OP does sort of beg this question. I can definitely see how a wedge offers more versatility, but at what handicap, or how long did one play before they were able to use and understand that versatility and utilize it as a benefit? I don't think the chipper is my forever greenside "wedge" by any means, but that is actually kind of the premise of my OP.

I bet there is not a one size fits all on the "when" part of this or that handicap is the best indicator. I may be wrong about this and maybe the more seasoned folks will comment on this. I would think once you start getting better with your higher lofted irons such as GW/AW, SW, you should move into the higher lofted wedge category.

Although I am sure this depends on the individual as people are very different. I know a 15 year old boy that chipping is a really strong part of his game. He is really smooth chipper. Some just have it and some have to learn it.

 

[JB]

I see your point where forgiving wedges with big ol juicy soles kind of replaced chippers. That makes sense to me. There is a bit of irony there for sure.

One length and hybrids can be traced back pretty far tho. It took a long time for people to even consider them. Quick google search is showing me one lengths to some degree date way back to the ben hogan era where irons were paired in same lengths and then the first full set was 1988 with the TA EQL's...you got hybrids back to the 1970's so I mean still a GOOD amount of time there.

Not to the masses. When my friend created EQL it failed and went away from the general consumer for decades. Hybrids came to be ironically enough from the same club designer helping bring the original Rescue from Japan and hit the masses in 1999. chippers were decades longer…and fell out of favor big time with the birth of wedge styles.

 

[V14_Heels]

I definitely disagree with this from a versatility standpoint. You are comparing two clubs rhat both can be used for a myriad of shots from full swings. To a single use club vs the most versatile spot in the bag. As I mentioned, you have made your mind up without trying the other option, and that’s cool. People should play what they want without a doubt. The thread premise was around why aren’t others and the answer is because better options exist that offer more versatility with no downfalls.

Yea and I'm not asking you to convince me, but I do think this is a great back and forth that just touches so many things within golf that I do think are important topics of discussion.

I don't agree with people in this thread that have said they are a one trick pony though. I mean I can pitch my chipper, I can full swing my chipper, and even though I've only played it out of the sand a couple times many reviews are playing them out of the sand as well. I also use my 37 to punch out of the trees. Do I full swing it alot, no, because I do typically grab my GW and go with a feel shot at like 50-60 instead of a full swing, but I'm still experimenting with that. I'm not fully comfortable with my 55 degree chipper yet. But I've definitely taken 50 yard shots with my 55 degree chipper just as I would a SW.

Is it as versatile as a regular wedge? No way Jose...definitely not saying that, but I think it's a heck of alot more versatile then what some seem to think in this thread.

 

[Turtlerancher]

IMO this discussion should lead somewhat to methodology required with the different wedges mainly because of the concept of the chipper. Everyone says the chipper is not versatile and my guess is that is accurate. The question might be how long does it take a high capper to form a somewhat decent wedge shot with a stand style wedge?

For a lob wedge to be truly versatile, one has to learn the methods such as open, closed, de-loft, loft, center, front, back, etc., to make it perform. On some of the courses that I play the putter/chippers style might be challenging, whereas a decent wedge has the versatility to perform better for most around the green strategies.

I know a guy that could use a regular wedge (because I have seen him hit one very well), but his confidence totally racks him so he uses the Shot Saver and most of the time it is reasonably effective. In his case a small amount of practice with a standard wedge would produce great rewards because it would build his confidence.

In my case, I practice my wedges a lot but the rewards are not quite as good as I wished they were. Sometimes I play them nice, but other times I simply don't make the shot I know and am confident I can make. Being a hacker I have the usually duff or thin (more armsy duff, rarely thin one) which grates on me.

As much as I practice my wedge game I should be a lot better at it. I had a decent wedge game yesterday, but I still duffed three wedge shots which cost me three additional strokes on the card.

Take a look at this other basic video, it may help you smooth out some of your woes pitching and chipping. Totally different setup and swings and I catch myself, when I get sloppy, interbreeding the concepts to horrible results!

 

[BigMac]

And this is precisely why I started this thread. If it's those two ideologies that are keeping people from playing a chipper, those mean nothing to me personally. I'll check my ego to not be cool if it means a better score, and the tour effect just has almost no bearing on me. If I'm ever a scratch golfer, I'll definitely start looking at what's in their bag alot more, but I'm not where close to swinging like a pro.

Luchnia's post a couple above this is also what I was curious on. JB and a couple others have talked about the versatility you lose by playing a chipper greenside instead of a regular wedge, and my OP does sort of beg this question. I can definitely see how a wedge offers more versatility, but at what handicap, or how long did one play before they were able to use and understand that versatility and utilize it as a benefit? I don't think the chipper is my forever greenside "wedge" by any means, but that is actually kind of the premise of my OP.

It's hard to say at what handicap/playing level it will benefit somebody, because high handicappers are high handicappers for a lot of different reasons. I think anybody of any handicap can become reasonably proficient at short game/wedges - it doesn't require strength like hitting the long ball, and there are a lot less moving parts in the swing. It just takes some practice. Look back at the Kevin Kisner video linked earlier in the thread - if you can putt, you can chip. Then you can play around with ball position and opening the face to get different ball flights, make it stop sooner or roll out more, etc.

The chipper is great when you have a bit of fringe or fairway in front of you and you can't quite use the putter - but what about when your ball is buried in deep rough? Or when you have a downhill chip to a short-sided pin on a green running away from you and you need to lay the face wide open and hit a "mini-flop" with some backspin to get the ball to stop? Or have to chip from the rough over a bunker to an elevated green? That's when the limitations of a chipper come into play and you're missing out on the versatility of using a wedge. Those shots aren't hard to learn, but they take some practice to develop the feel for them and the confidence to use them, and I imagine they'd be pretty hard to pull off with a chipper. A lot of people are saying a chipper is pretty much like a 7 or 8 iron, and I wouldn't use a 7 or 8 iron for any of those shots above.

Again, I say use whatever works best for you and don't worry about what anybody else thinks of it - but realize that you are sacrificing some versatility with the chipper. As long as you're good with that, go out there and have fun with it!

 

[V14_Heels]

It's hard to say at what handicap/playing level it will benefit somebody, because high handicappers are high handicappers for a lot of different reasons. I think anybody of any handicap can become reasonably proficient at short game/wedges - it doesn't require strength like hitting the long ball, and there are a lot less moving parts in the swing. It just takes some practice. Look back at the Kevin Kisner video linked earlier in the thread - if you can putt, you can chip. Then you can play around with ball position and opening the face to get different ball flights, make it stop sooner or roll out more, etc.

The chipper is great when you have a bit of fringe or fairway in front of you and you can't quite use the putter - but what about when your ball is buried in deep rough? Or when you have a downhill chip to a short-sided pin on a green running away from you and you need to lay the face wide open and hit a "mini-flop" with some backspin to get the ball to stop? Or have to chip from the rough over a bunker to an elevated green? That's when the limitations of a chipper come into play and you're missing out on the versatility of using a wedge. Those shots aren't hard to learn, but they take some practice to develop the feel for them and the confidence to use them, and I imagine they'd be pretty hard to pull off with a chipper. A lot of people are saying a chipper is pretty much like a 7 or 8 iron, and I wouldn't use a 7 or 8 iron for any of those shots above.

Again, I say use whatever works best for you and don't worry about what anybody else thinks of it - but realize that you are sacrificing some versatility with the chipper. As long as you're good with that, go out there and have fun with it!

Yea when I get any of those shots I just cry. Haha. In reality hmm...let me actually think about this...

1. A ball is buried in deep rough around the green - I'd use my 37' chipper there still. It's got a heavy head, so it can get through some thicker stuff and I'd just try to bump it out of there still. I mean that's just not a shot that I ever practice in the 3 seasons I've played though and I'm probably facing that scenario 1 in every 6 rounds at best? I just don't have alot of thick heavy rough right around the green in the courses I play? I can see there where a wedge would be better, but I do have a lob wedge and gap wedge in my bag still. My GW matches my irons and then I just have a fatty sole on my lob wedge. I usually use it for sand, but could see it here. I just don't love using my lob wedge for full shots cause I feel like it thins so easy. My success rate on that shot in general is just gonna be terrible no matter what club I use in all honesty.

2. Downhill chip to a short sided pin - Easy one. I'd go with my 55 chipper here. I'd line up with a putting stroke and I'd take a very light "putt" at it. I can hit a 2-3 yard shot with my 55 degree chipper. I won't get spin, so it probably leaves me a decent putt back at it to be fair. I take a fairly normal width putting stance and pull my 55 degree chipper back to about my big toe and just putt. Anything inside of 2-3 yards gets tougher, but usually I'm going to be able to putt those if I'm that close to the green. I like my odds of getting it closer to the pin there a 100x over trying to open the face of wedge. That's a really tough shot in comparison. But this does hint at something. At the point where I can generate and understand spin and how to open up a club face...that might be an indicator it's time to rethink a wedge. I'm not there.

3. Chip from rough over a bunker to elevated green - 55 degree chipper all day long. But I do take a traditional chipping stance here. I'll use hip turn, 1/4 to 1/2 swing depending on distance, try my best to stay down so I don't thin and turn through it. I can definitely hit this shot though with my 55 degree chipper. It's versatile enough there. Here's a 69 yarder where I went up and down and I kind of did this and went over a cart path, over sand and out of who knows what. This would've been a full swing. I don't know how elevated this green was though. And this is more of a pitch, but close to what your describing. I definitely have examples of a chip over a bunker too. More 25 yards.

 

[V14_Heels]

Here's one. That 34 yarder is a chip with my 55 degree chipper, it was actually a downhill lie in some fairly thick stuff back up to a slightly elevated green, nothing crazy but it was elevated just a snidge. I remember this hole quite well, because it's the first and only time I had ever had a 2nd shot that was pin high on a par 5 lol (That's a really good drive for me and really good 5W). I remember saying to myself "if only you would've been aligned, you would've had an eagle putt!"

 

[xcman04]

Following this thread has been really fun - thanks to everyone for all of your excellent thoughts and observations!

Personally, I'm still on the fence in terms of picking one of these up, although I can absolutely see the benefits of using one. Right now my two biggest weaknesses are my 2nd shots from 130 yards in, and bunker shots that require me to add a little distance vs. just getting up and out. I currently have in my bag a 52, 56 and 60 degree wedge, and I absolutely need to (and will be doing so in the near future) take more lessons to learn how to hit full shots with these - for whatever reason I just can't make solid contact with these. As such, especially the closer I am to the hole, I've been choosing to hit more bump and run shots with my 7i or 8i because even though those don't go well all the time, my success rate (by which I usually define as being on the edge or on the green) is typically pretty decent. Would a chipper help me, especially from 50 yards in? I don't know, and probably wouldn't know unless I picked one up and tried it.

As for chipping around the green, as I mentioned before, I've actually started to get the hang of using my 9i, choking up and adjusting my stance as others have suggested, with pretty decent results. There are times when using it hurts me, especially when I have little green to work with or I really need the ball to stop upon landing, but there are also times where it has worked out really well for me. What matters more for me at the moment is that my chipping swing with my 9i is becoming more consistent - although I have replicated the same end results with my 56 wedge (my preferred wedge for chipping at same distances as my 9i), I also tend to mess up a shot here or there with disastrous results, much more then with my 9i. I can admit that's almost certainly an issue of needing more lessons and practice, but that's where I'm at right now. As such, not sure a chipper would add more value for me personally compared to what I use now, and the 9i has the added benefit of being my club in the 120-130 range (which recently has been a curse more then a blessing, but that's what lessons are for!).

Sand shots are what intrigues me the most with these right now. As noted earlier, Cleveland has a S wedge (chipper style) that is supposed to help get the ball up and out really well, and a lot of the reviews on that club specifically seem to bear that out. I can accomplish that fairly well most of the time, but unlike my 9i chipping, I'm not at all comfortable with my sand shot swing. If using Cleveland's S wedge means less effort for me with more consistent results, I don't see why I wouldn't want to use it. I could easily see it temporarily replacing my 60 wedge, which is what I currently use for my close sand shots now anyway, especially as I'm terrible with my 60 wedge for just about anything else.

I also think where I'm currently at as a golfer impacts my decision - I would say I'm a steadily improving golfer who strives to play bogey golf for the round, which I'm actually happy to say is now somewhat possible (although definitely not probable). Because I allow myself the possibility of taking two shots after my drive to get on the green, I have a little more flexibility in terms of hitting my 2nd shot short and/or landing my 3rd shot long on the green. This, in turn, allows me to get away with my current approach in terms of what clubs I use and how I use them. If I continue to improve, however, and actually begin to dream about breaking 80 someday, I could see myself focusing more on my wedges, as I feel their added versatility would be needed to help lower my score. As it stands right now, though, I don't have the skill (yet) to use those clubs to their full potential, and I want to still do well and have fun when I'm out playing, so I don't feel any shame or remorse using my 9i as my chipper, and I would definitely feel the same way using a chipper if I wasn't finding success with my 9i.

 

[Luchnia]

Following this thread has been really fun - thanks to everyone for all of your excellent thoughts and observations!

Personally, I'm still on the fence in terms of picking one of these up, although I can absolutely see the benefits of using one. Right now my two biggest weaknesses are my 2nd shots from 130 yards in, and bunker shots that require me to add a little distance vs. just getting up and out. I currently have in my bag a 52, 56 and 60 degree wedge, and I absolutely need to (and will be doing so in the near future) take more lessons to learn how to hit full shots with these - for whatever reason I just can't make solid contact with these. As such, especially the closer I am to the hole, I've been choosing to hit more bump and run shots with my 7i or 8i because even though those don't go well all the time, my success rate (by which I usually define as being on the edge or on the green) is typically pretty decent. Would a chipper help me, especially from 50 yards in? I don't know, and probably wouldn't know unless I picked one up and tried it.

As for chipping around the green, as I mentioned before, I've actually started to get the hang of using my 9i, choking up and adjusting my stance as others have suggested, with pretty decent results. There are times when using it hurts me, especially when I have little green to work with or I really need the ball to stop upon landing, but there are also times where it has worked out really well for me. What matters more for me at the moment is that my chipping swing with my 9i is becoming more consistent - although I have replicated the same end results with my 56 wedge (my preferred wedge for chipping at same distances as my 9i), I also tend to mess up a shot here or there with disastrous results, much more then with my 9i. I can admit that's almost certainly an issue of needing more lessons and practice, but that's where I'm at right now. As such, not sure a chipper would add more value for me personally compared to what I use now, and the 9i has the added benefit of being my club in the 120-130 range (which recently has been a curse more then a blessing, but that's what lessons are for!).

Sand shots are what intrigues me the most with these right now. As noted earlier, Cleveland has a S wedge (chipper style) that is supposed to help get the ball up and out really well, and a lot of the reviews on that club specifically seem to bear that out. I can accomplish that fairly well most of the time, but unlike my 9i chipping, I'm not at all comfortable with my sand shot swing. If using Cleveland's S wedge means less effort for me with more consistent results, I don't see why I wouldn't want to use it. I could easily see it temporarily replacing my 60 wedge, which is what I currently use for my close sand shots now anyway, especially as I'm terrible with my 60 wedge for just about anything else.

I also think where I'm currently at as a golfer impacts my decision - I would say I'm a steadily improving golfer who strives to play bogey golf for the round, which I'm actually happy to say is now somewhat possible (although definitely not probable). Because I allow myself the possibility of taking two shots after my drive to get on the green, I have a little more flexibility in terms of hitting my 2nd shot short and/or landing my 3rd shot long on the green. This, in turn, allows me to get away with my current approach in terms of what clubs I use and how I use them. If I continue to improve, however, and actually begin to dream about breaking 80 someday, I could see myself focusing more on my wedges, as I feel their added versatility would be needed to help lower my score. As it stands right now, though, I don't have the skill (yet) to use those clubs to their full potential, and I want to still do well and have fun when I'm out playing, so I don't feel any shame or remorse using my 9i as my chipper, and I would definitely feel the same way using a chipper if I wasn't finding success with my 9i.

I enjoyed reading your post.

A lot of wedge play is course dependent. Flat large greens you can hit most anything even a 7i because that only requires a bump and run most of the time unless the greens are hard/fast then you might need a high flop, or some other shot from a wedge if you have trouble with bump and run shots. Confidence has everything to do with wedge play around the greens IMO. If I follow through to target I am gold, but if I get fatigued, lazy/armsy it can get ugly real fast.

I started with 3 Vokey SM7 wedges early on and now I am down to a single 56 degree wedge. I have found what seems to work best for me at the moment. That might change. I have Callaway Mav Max iron set that I was fitted for and the set has a PW, AW, and SW. My PW is my 120 +/- club and my AW is 100 +/-. I can do a lot with those two clubs and chip if need be, but from about 95 in the SW and 56 Lob Wedge get a good amount of work. At my local course the 56 can get a workout because the small extremely high greens are very hard to pin with a 100/120 yard shot unless you hit them perfectly. A lot of times I am chipping a 15-25 yard chip.

I fail to see the need for a full swing on a lob wedge on most courses I play. In the last 2 years I don't think I have had the need to full swing my lob wedge at all. I do it for fun sometimes. I see guys do it and doesn't seem many of them are as accurate with them from 75-95 yards as I am with my SW. I did play with a 2.4 capper about a month ago and he knew how to hit a lob wedge and get it to do what he wanted. Of the golfers I play with he was an exception.

I maintain the concept that it has much to do with a club you are confident in and what the shot requires at the time - golf course strategy 101. I started to dial in the SW at 30/50/75/95 yards, but don't use it much for 30. I practiced targeting those yardages until I can hit a fairly high percentage of greens with my SW. If it is 50 +/- yards I know the exact touch the SW needs to get there and be on the green to putt which removes a chip shot. The same with 75 and 95 etc.

When I am looking at high small greens or more versatile shots then my 56 comes into play because that becomes more of a finesse shot and usually anywhere from 50 to around the green fringe, bunkers, rough lies around the green, etc. Most of the time the shots are around 30 and closer. Even though I can hit a full swing with the wedge, I don't need to because of my SW.