World Handicap System - Coming Jan 2020

The more I think about this, the more I think the ruling bodies need to get the app makers involved. If the grint/hole19/18birdies/etc. apps could post directly to GHIN it would be very helpful. Hopefully they’ll have updates to help players figure the stroke limits.
 
I don't know about potentially. Likely, or guaranteed would seem more accurate. Knock off numbers 9 and 10 for me right now and I'm well below scratch. I feel like the 8 rounds thing might be quite a dramatic difference sometimes.

I could see how just two or three rounds under par could drop it quickly with only eight rounds in the calculation. Mine currently goes from a 0.5 to a 0.4 so I’ll have to wait and see how much a difference it makes. I do like that it updates daily, however.
 
I could go either way on this. Locking caps and trying to 'hit a number' by the next revision was always pretty fun.
Good point and one I hadn't considered. Right now it's probably easier to look back and track how my season went with fewer discrete bimonthly revisions, (we get 17 data points in a season I think?). If it changed for every round that look would be one long 100+ point string without discernible change point to point. Adjacent points might be from the same day or there might be 2 or 3 weeks between points. That look might better identify those rare, rare, rounds I went exceptionally low but could lack info I now see with a glance.

edit: Daily might be a big positive for those who primarily use their caps in competition. I use my cap more as a progress measuring stick, with at most 8-15 handicapped competitions sprinkled in.
 
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The more I think about this, the more I think the ruling bodies need to get the app makers involved. If the grint/hole19/18birdies/etc. apps could post directly to GHIN it would be very helpful. Hopefully they’ll have updates to help players figure the stroke limits.
Yes, exactly. I already have a huge amount of data and an unofficial cap with Arccos, yet it stands alone and serves no purpose other than my amusement.
One of my goals this year was get an official cap, I signed up for the deluxe version of Grint ( pro?). After fighting with the app and loading several rounds manually I gave up. It seems to me the golf authorities are still using (figurative) flip phones when the rest of the world moved to smartphones years ago.
 
Yes, exactly. I already have a huge amount of data and an unofficial cap with Arccos, yet it stands alone and serves no purpose other than my amusement.
One of my goals this year was get an official cap, I signed up for the deluxe version of Grint ( pro?). After fighting with the app and loading several rounds manually I gave up. It seems to me the golf authorities are still using (figurative) flip phones when the rest of the world moved to smartphones years ago.

Yep. The GHIN app is awful. Hole19 counts my strokes, and gives me a net score, soooooo why cant it just integrate with GHIN?

Spoiler
Because the golf authorities still aren’t sure this “internet” thing is gonna stick around
 
This really just seems to combine aspects of the R&A handicap system and our system.

For conditions affecting course rating and slope, its probably only going to be tournament rounds or some sort of organized medal play otherwise, I can't imagine it being managed. Right now for England they do a competition stroke standard for medal play.
 
The more I think about this, the more I think the ruling bodies need to get the app makers involved. If the grint/hole19/18birdies/etc. apps could post directly to GHIN it would be very helpful. Hopefully they’ll have updates to help players figure the stroke limits.
I sure hope so. I play in ZERO competitions, so my handicap is just a way for me to measure my success/progress. I hope The Grint or some other app provides what I get now with Grint.
 
This really just seems to combine aspects of the R&A handicap system and our system.

For conditions affecting course rating and slope, its probably only going to be tournament rounds or some sort of organized medal play otherwise, I can't imagine it being managed. Right now for England they do a competition stroke standard for medal play.

It will not be managed at all in regards to weather. It will be adjusted automatically if scores posted that day are higher than normal over all and they will adjust. It will not only be based on weather either. If the course has a harder setup it will be adjusted as well.


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I got to thinking about this this morning. While it’s not super complex it is a bit more effort than I think most people will put into it.

That being said I’m not sure how much effort people are putting into calculating their max per hole now. I did notice that the GHIN app has a handy calculator that will show you what your course handicap is pretty easily. It took me about 5 minutes to figure out my handicap for one of the nines at my home course. That’s pre-coffee even, so not terribly difficult.

this is what I came up with:

The 9 in question has a slope of 116 for men from the white tees.

FA6B051F-BDD6-4966-A4AD-FD70AEA57E38.jpeg

With my current handicap of 22.6 that leaves me with a Course handicap of 23. Divided by 2 makes 11.5, I called it 11 flat (not sure how that should actually go).

Which leaves this for my per hole max:

BEEB9855-9084-4476-8081-36BCD8F231B4.jpeg

Essentially triple bogey max on every hole but the two hardest, where I get to go quadruple bogey.

I think that’s all correct. If I’m wrong please let me know.
 
I have lurked here for a white
I mean course handicap is pretty simple to do after a few times. Just need your phone to calculate it.

Hc X slope divided by 113

So for me on a slope of 130

7 x 130 = 910

910/113 = 8.05 or a course handicap of 8.

Also, if you really cannot remember that formula, google course handicap calculator and all you have to do is plug in your handicap and the slope and it’ll spit it out :)

If you play your buddies with strokes you should be finding the course handicap anyways in all fairness.


So in terms of esc:

I get 8 strokes on that course so on the 8 hardest holes, I will only be able to score (input wise for HC) double plus the stroke.


Makes it much easier for me to remember than the chart where I have to figure out what division my handicap is in and whether that means double, 7, 8, etc

100%

I have lurked here for a while and made an account just for this thread. I feel like I'm playing devil's advocate as most people are against the new system. No one likes change but a wet baby! I get it.

1. I recently played at Interlachen, Hazeltine, and Minikahda, and I knew what my course and tee handicap was before stepping on the first tee. It's not hard to do and there are many apps out there that allow you to do it in 5 seconds. I post all my scores using apps anyways as I am sure there are many other golfers that also do.

2. The ESC wasn't great. If I have bad hole on a par 3, it affects my handicap and round greater than if I have a bad hole on a par 5. That makes no sense. The World Handicap max is net double bogey. So if I am a 19 handicap, and I am playing the #1 handicap hole, par 4, I take an 8. Same scenario except the hole is the #2 handicap, you take a 7. It makes more sense, but It does add greater complexity but not that much greater. It will take a while for people to adjust, but I am sure there are going to be a boatload of apps coming in the next six months that will calculate this for you along with course and tee handicap.

3. The inclimate weather and course difficulty portion will not be managed by a person or club. They are going to have algorithms to calculate this, and I bet they are set for the furthest outliers. This is going to be a nonfactor for most golfers not playing in extreme conditions.

4. Hate the average of 8 best scores out of 20. It should be 10 or even 12. The handicap you have should be the average score you shoot 50% to 60% of the time. Not the average score you shoot 40% of the time. This will affect handicaps the most of high handicappers that have greater variability in the scores they shoot. Whereas a 5 handicap probably posts scores within 8 (+/-4) strokes of each other

5. Hate they didn't take out the rule that you cannot post scores for rounds played alone. Stupid rule that most don't follow anyways and they shouldn't.

Even though there are bad things about this, everyone is governed by the same rules and everyone's handicap will be adjusted by the same measuring stick. If I had to guess, I think handicaps will come down, slightly, for the higher handicappers and remain about the same for mid/low handicappers.
 
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I got to thinking about this this morning. While it’s not super complex it is a bit more effort than I think most people will put into it.

That being said I’m not sure how much effort people are putting into calculating their max per hole now. I did notice that the GHIN app has a handy calculator that will show you what your course handicap is pretty easily. It took me about 5 minutes to figure out my handicap for one of the nines at my home course. That’s pre-coffee even, so not terribly difficult.

this is what I came up with:

The 9 in question has a slope of 116 for men from the white tees.

View attachment 8912004

With my current handicap of 22.6 that leaves me with a Course handicap of 23. Divided by 2 makes 11.5, I called it 11 flat (not sure how that should actually go).

Which leaves this for my per hole max:

View attachment 8912005

Essentially triple bogey max on every hole but the two hardest, where I get to go quadruple bogey.

I think that’s all correct. If I’m wrong please let me know.

11.5 rounds up to 12
 
I have lurked here for a white


100%

I have lurked here for a while and made an account just for this thread. I feel like I'm playing devil's advocate as most people are against the new system. No one likes change but a wet baby! I get it.

1. I recently played at Interlachen, Hazeltine, and Minikahda, and I knew what my course and tee handicap was before stepping on the first tee. It's not hard to do and there are many apps out there that allow you to do it in 5 seconds. I post all my scores using apps anyways as I am sure there are many other golfers that also do.

2. The ESC wasn't great. If I have bad hole on a par 3, it affects my handicap and round greater than if I have a bad hole on a par 5. That makes no sense. The World Handicap max is net double bogey. So if I am a 19 handicap, and I am playing the #1 handicap hole, par 4, I take an 8. Same scenario except the hole is the #2 handicap, you take a 7. It makes more sense, but It does add greater complexity but not that much greater. It will take a while for people to adjust, but I am sure there are going to be a boatload of apps coming in the next six months that will calculate this for you along with course and tee handicap.

3. The inclimate weather and course difficulty portion will not be managed by a person or club. They are going to have algorithms to calculate this, and I bet they are set for the furthest outliers. This is going to be a nonfactor for most golfers not playing in extreme conditions.

4. Hate the average of 8 best scores out of 20. It should be 10 or even 12. The handicap you have should be the average score you shoot 50% to 60% of the time. Not the average score you shoot 40% of the time. This will affect handicaps the most of high handicappers that have greater variability in the scores they shoot. Whereas a 5 handicap probably posts scores within 8 (+/-4) strokes of each other

5. Hate they didn't take out the rule that you cannot post scores for rounds played alone. Stupid rule that most don't follow anyways and they shouldn't.

Even though there are bad things about this, everyone is governed by the same rules and everyone's handicap will be adjusted by the same measuring stick. If I had to guess, I think handicaps will come down, slightly, for the higher handicappers and remain about the same for mid/low handicappers.
But its not really the same measuring stick. Even our existing system (regardless what many believe) just slightly favors or as they call it "rewards excellence". This new system does that far greater. The max score per hole means even more esc or better said ignoring more bad, plus (as you pointed out...the usage of 8 best vs 10 ignores yet even more. This is all going to make sandbagging a tad more difficult. But its also going to now hurt the mid and higher cappers by producing a cap lower (imo noticeably so) and in a sense a vanity one. The very thing that helps the sandbagging a bit also now hurts the honest higher cap player. For my view its simply going to give me a lower cap as though I am get credit for being better than I am. Our aps are always a little better than we actually are but now the higher the cap the better its going to be. I dont want a better cap without having really earned it by actually getting better and more consistent. Its imo like a false reward where i can say i am cap "X" but in reality Im not that good and dont really own that rating.
 
But its not really the same measuring stick. Even our existing system (regardless what many believe) just slightly favors or as they call it "rewards excellence". This new system does that far greater. The max score per hole means even more esc or better said ignoring more bad, plus (as you pointed out...the usage of 8 best vs 10 ignores yet even more. This is all going to make sandbagging a tad more difficult. But its also going to now hurt the mid and higher cappers by producing a cap lower (imo noticeably so) and in a sense a vanity one. The very thing that helps the sandbagging a bit also now hurts the honest higher cap player. For my view its simply going to give me a lower cap as though I am get credit for being better than I am. Our aps are always a little better than we actually are but now the higher the cap the better its going to be. I dont want a better cap without having really earned it by actually getting better and more consistent. Its imo like a false reward where i can say i am cap "X" but in reality Im not that good and dont really own that rating.

I agree with you. It will pull higher handicaps down while mid and lower remain relatively the same. I get it if you are out there playing for money. It's not really a fair system as the highest handicap will be at a disadvantage.
 
I think the biggest change will be the best 8 rather than the best 10. I just did the calculations for my last 20 scores and my index will adjust to a 0.2 at the end of the month. Under the new system, it will be a +0.9. Over a stroke lower is a huge amount when you're at a scratch.
 
I think the biggest change will be the best 8 rather than the best 10. I just did the calculations for my last 20 scores and my index will adjust to a 0.2 at the end of the month. Under the new system, it will be a +0.9. Over a stroke lower is a huge amount when you're at a scratch.

Exactly. We were talking about this at my club today. My #9 and #10 (+4.9 and +3.1) move me by almost stroke if you take them out. It would be an even more dramatic difference if the new revision happened tonight, or I don't golf again before it. There's a big difference between 8 counting scores and 10.

The more I think about this, the more I think the ruling bodies need to get the app makers involved. If the grint/hole19/18birdies/etc. apps could post directly to GHIN it would be very helpful. Hopefully they’ll have updates to help players figure the stroke limits.

Golfshot posts to GHIN


In the end we'll all get used to the difference and our perceptions of what a ___ hdcp is will just change a little. Maybe moreso for erratic scorers.
 
I think the biggest change will be the best 8 rather than the best 10. I just did the calculations for my last 20 scores and my index will adjust to a 0.2 at the end of the month. Under the new system, it will be a +0.9. Over a stroke lower is a huge amount when you're at a scratch.
yes I can certainly understand that for being at your level. But the jump is much greater as the caps were higher. In the end youd be giving less strokes to the higher cappers because of it. You jump one stroke and they jump up perhaps 3. So you gain a couple. No?
 
yes I can certainly understand that for being at your level. But the jump is much greater as the caps were higher. In the end youd be giving less strokes to the higher cappers because of it. You jump one stroke and they jump up perhaps 3. So you gain a couple. No?

Actually the .96 multiplier in the current handicap system gives an advantage to the low index player and that multiplier goes away in January.

In the end I really don’t care as I don’t play handicapped events. The bigger money games I play are gross only. I’m in small money games with handicaps maybe 20 times during the season but nobody loses or wins more than $30. With my regular buddies it’s team games and at the end of the summer all my win losses from money games wind up being a wash or close to it.
 
If you are a high handicapper playing mid to low handicappers for big money, I would question your judgement anyways. The mid to low handicap will play more consistently to their handicap even if handicaps are correct for all players. Most tourneys have flights, so I don't see that as a big deal. I agree with @OldandStiff, it is a change we will have to get used to. It will take time but everyone will adjust
 
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