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Would you ever consider playing a par5 with a lay up tee shot?

One of the local courses you have no choice but to lay up. There is a hazard that is 220 out and is 100 yards long. So unless you can carry your driver 320 yards you have to layup with a long iron or hybrid, hit your second over the hazard then you have about 130-140 for your third. I personally don't like the hole and every time I play with someone new they hate the hole also. Other than that one par 5 I never layup off the tee.
 
StanTheCaddy said:
One of the local courses you have no choice but to lay up. There is a hazard that is 220 out and is 100 yards long. So unless you can carry your driver 320 yards you have to layup with a long iron or hybrid, hit your second over the hazard then you have about 130-140 for your third. I personally don't like the hole and every time I play with someone new they hate the hole also. Other than that one par 5 I never layup off the tee.
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Count me among those who would hate this hole. I'm OK with par 5s where the smart play may be to lay up, but hitting driver should always be an option on a par 5. Four Putt's example is a good one. It would take a great drive to go for it, but at least it's an option.


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I do it all the time, could be anything from 4wood to 4iron. All course management :)

There's two driveable par4's on my homecourse. I tend to try it very once in a while, but rather play to a good approach distance. That means hitting 6-7iron on one and 4i/hybrid on the other :)

By the way: for a drill I did a while back I played with a guy and we discussed the normal way we play a hole before we played it. Then turned it around as good as possible:
Say you're at a par4. Normally hit a 3wood and a 7iron. So turn it around: 7iron off the tee, 3wood from the deck should get you there right? Well try it ;) It's harder if there's a hole where you would use a driver though :(
 
I laid up on two par 5s today with three woods off the tee. The first was 3deep, 4w, pw. The 2nd was 3deep, 21.5* hybrid to 15'. Par and birdie. But made birdie on the 1st par 5 with driver, 4W pin high left, 2 putt from fringe
 
Would you ever consider playing a par5 with a lay up tee shot?

The "driveable" par 4 is a completely different animal. There is one at my home course that plays about 290 but the opening to the green is so small and it's uphill the last 25 yards so you literally have to carry 285 to small spot to hit or keep it on the green. I typically play a 6 or 7 to a wide open spot on the fairway to a PW or 9 second shot.

The rare forced layup on a par 5 I think is something of a trick/junk hole and poor design, with the possible exception of a long wide downhill fairway beyond that to allow for yardage to be made up. I can see a forced carry type hazard but not anything that would require more than 200-220 from your typical blue tee setup.

I'm reminded of 7 at El Campeon. If I recall, the fairway hazard, a creek running across the hole, requires about a 250 carry. Beyond that is an uphill fairway to a pin that is still a good 160 away (it is a par 4 hole). The only safe play is to hit a long iron short of the creek and hope you get close enough to leave less than 210-220. To me that is borderline junk, although it is a beautiful hole and made for some fun viewing watching everyone fail to try and drive over the short end of the hazard.
 
I'm reminded of a par 5 on the course we played for my golf league. There is a lake on the right with almost no rough, a creek that runs through the middle of the fairway, and a huge oak tree in the left fairway before the creek. All season I tried to drive the ball and frequently found the lake. The final few weeks I started laying up with hybrid or 3w. The green is guarded by a lake behind so I always lay for my second shot.

The hole seems easy, dead straight, but had lots of trouble that comes into play on each shot.
 
Yup. I will play to have a distance I can hit accurately to get on the green rather than hitting something I hope to get on the green and that I hope does not end up in a bunker. To do that sometimes you need to play the hole backwards and play to a distance off the tee to have a good clean shot to the green rather than playing from a difficult place.
 
Hit 4 iron, 5 wood, gap wedge yesterday

Whatever works
 
my home course has a hole where, if you want to score, you need to lay-up. About a 200-220yd tee shot keeps you out of danger. A full driver gives you a very narrow landing area and, if you push it right, lost ball land. Driver just has too low reward / too high risk. In order to play it properly, it's 3w/5w and aim left. Works every time I don't screw up the 2nd show ;)
 
dpgator33 said:
I'm reminded of 7 at El Campeon. If I recall, the fairway hazard, a creek running across the hole, requires about a 250 carry. Beyond that is an uphill fairway to a pin that is still a good 160 away (it is a par 4 hole). The only safe play is to hit a long iron short of the creek and hope you get close enough to leave less than 210-220. To me that is borderline junk, although it is a beautiful hole and made for some fun viewing watching everyone fail to try and drive over the short end of the hazard.
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I'm not sure exactly why or how you consider that a "junk" hole. Of course I don't personally know it at all out side of you describing it to us. But from your description it seems interesting and a difficult P4. Unless your thoughts about it is one that says its not really a fair hole as it doesn't offer a good fair chance at a par for a P4. I guess I can see and agree with that point if that's what you mean. Sounds like perhaps if they had added another 50 yrds or so it might have made for a good and interesting shorter P5 vs the extremely difficult P4 it is now.
 
If I don't like the angle or the distance to a fairway bunker I'll do it if I am hitting my irons solid. 522 yards today and I wasn't going challenge it in two even if I busted the drive. 3 iron, 4 iron, pitching wedge to 15 feet so it gave me a chance at birdie
 
dpgator33 said:
The "driveable" par 4 is a completely different animal. There is one at my home course that plays about 290 but the opening to the green is so small and it's uphill the last 25 yards so you literally have to carry 285 to small spot to hit or keep it on the green. I typically play a 6 or 7 to a wide open spot on the fairway to a PW or 9 second shot.

The rare forced layup on a par 5 I think is something of a trick/junk hole and poor design, with the possible exception of a long wide downhill fairway beyond that to allow for yardage to be made up. I can see a forced carry type hazard but not anything that would require more than 200-220 from your typical blue tee setup.

I'm reminded of 7 at El Campeon. If I recall, the fairway hazard, a creek running across the hole, requires about a 250 carry. Beyond that is an uphill fairway to a pin that is still a good 160 away (it is a par 4 hole). The only safe play is to hit a long iron short of the creek and hope you get close enough to leave less than 210-220. To me that is borderline junk, although it is a beautiful hole and made for some fun viewing watching everyone fail to try and drive over the short end of the hazard.
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I'm with you that the 7th is an odd hole. IIRC its a long par 4 but driver isn't the play unless its a perfect fade around the corner. Anything pulled is in the junk left. I slashed into the trees and made double so I could have done without that tee shot
 
I play a course that has a 430 yd par 5 that almost requires a lay up off of the tee. You then can either hit a mid-long iron through a narrow gap over two creeks to the green, or, land a sand wedge between the creeks, then hit another sand wedge onto the green. The creek also awaits any balls short right or hooked. Can get really ugly in a hurry.

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I loathe having to lay up on my tee shot on a par 5, especially when I know I can reach it in 2 with a good drive. Sometimes it's absolutely necessary, like if there's a stiff headwind and a hazard that I doubt I can carry, or a tight landing area during a tournament, then I'll swallow my pride and hit a long iron or fairway wood. My rule of thumb is once any doubt creeps into my head, put the driver away. Nothing good ever came from an unconfident driver swing


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BradMorris said:
I play a course that has a 430 yd par 5 that almost requires a lay up off of the tee. You then can either hit a mid-long iron through a narrow gap over two creeks to the green, or, land a sand wedge between the creeks, then hit another sand wedge onto the green. The creek also awaits any balls short right or hooked. Can get really ugly in a hurry.

ngKvP6Z.png
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wow, interesting nice looking hole. Looks like great condition too. Seems your looking (driver wise) at a 265 carry to make the second fw and also including a thread the needle shot as well. I think that's going to be a lay up shot for most but a few and less of those who actually pull it off successfully. I don't even see all that much difference if one moved up a tee as well. Still a hard shot to thread.

I can see why this is a (short) P5. Even the lay up would need to stay pretty much dead center if one wanted to reach with an approach of 180 to 200. Anything left or right and those trees are going to be in line of fire. Also depends just what clubs one is bagging to make the tee shot with. Wouldn't be imo a hole that offers a fair chance at par for the average hacker if it was a P4.

I dont think I'd plan for 3 from the start here. I think I'd go 5w then determine from there based on the result. Hope I'm middle enough for a shot from 200. Maybe play a club shorter for the second and hope to roll it up or be just off that dome. If not middle or a bit short with the 5w tee shot then I'll play two more and take all the three shots.

I wonder how others would attack this?
 
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