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When Is It Time to Start Over From Scratch?

GolfLivesMatter

GolfLivesMatter

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You've tried countless tips....you make progress...then decline...one day shots are mostly decent...the next day terrible. So is it time to start over? What I mean is assume the role of a beginning golfer starting with the grip, then stance, etc? It seems from my own experience the all the "add-on" tips from YouTube, magazines, buddies, resulted in a compounding of disjointed, counter-productive swing faults than what I originally had in the first place.
 
I tried to find the exact quote, but failed.

Nicklaus said something like this: Every winter, for as long as I took lessons from my teacher, Jack Grout, I would go to him and say, "I want to learn to play golf. Teach me how to play, starting with teh grip, the stance . . .

and it went on like that. It's really good for all of us to reveiw the basics frequently, which is what I assume you mean. At some age - I can tell you it's before 59 - muscle memory rules and it's really difficult to start over completely from scratch (rebuild your swing complete) without a boatload of work on our parts. Many if not most of us are unwilling or unable to make that investment in our games, which is probably why you and I are where we are.

On the other hand, Hogan says there is no reason why a man or woman of average athleticism shouldn't be able to shoot in the 70s. And he was a guy who reallly rebuilt his game - with a boatload of work.
 
When I feel like I'm unable to swing because I'm thinking so hard about swing thoughts, then I know it's time to start over. The more natural and uninhibited the swing is, the better the result.
 
tpluff said:
When I feel like I'm unable to swing because I'm thinking so hard about swing thoughts, then I know it's time to start over. The more natural and uninhibited the swing is, the better the result.
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In the words of America's greatest 20th century philospher, Yogi Berra: "How do you expect me to think and swing at the same time?"
 
If you simply feel discombobulated....go back to the basics.


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PKorf said:
If you simply feel discombobulated....go back to the basics.


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I'm often discombobulated. I'm screwed.

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There is nothing complicated about the golf swing. There are no “advanced” moves or techniques. The problem is getting your brain and body to work together appropriately.

That being said, work on the basics every day you practice. Grip, posture, alignment - most of which can be done in front of a mirror at home at slow speeds.

It would help to learn cause and effects from different pieces of any given golf swing. How plane angles effect steepness/shallowness, how wrist hinge and cupping/bowing effect face angle, how face to path effects ball flight/curvature, etc. They are all like knobs on an equalizer. It may just be fine tuning one or two pieces to work together for your swing in order for you to get the results you want.

And don’t give up. For most it takes a long time to get decent at golf, much less “good”. Try to enjoy the journey for its ups and downs.
 
In my golfing life, I can recall only one player who I was convinced needed to start over from scratch. He had a fool for a golf coach...himself. Yet he thought he had the greatest instructor on the planet!

Speaking of the greatest instructor on the planet, for most of the last 2-3 decades Butch Harmon has held that distinction. What is he known for? He can watch a player at any skill level take a few swings and with that identify the ONE adjustment that player needs to make that will yield the most improvement. That is a real gift! But it also speaks to the truth that most of us don't need to start over to improve, we just need the right instructor and a willing heart.

BTW, Butch works a lot with Wounded Warriors, teaching guys with a lot of different physical handicaps as well as mental scars how to play and enjoy the game. There is hope for all of us.
 
GolfLivesMatter said:
You've tried countless tips....you make progress...then decline...one day shots are mostly decent...the next day terrible. So is it time to start over? What I mean is assume the role of a beginning golfer starting with the grip, then stance, etc? It seems from my own experience the all the "add-on" tips from YouTube, magazines, buddies, resulted in a compounding of disjointed, counter-productive swing faults than what I originally had in the first place.
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It took me many years of playing before I learned how to properly set up my alignment, my stance, posture and ball positioning, but once I did, it made a world of difference, especially in my shot accuracy and in my ability to hit the majority of FW's on tee shots. I didn't learn this through lessons or videos but simply through trying a lot of different things until I found what works for me, even if some people call what I do as being unconventional. What works for someone else may not necessarily work for you. IMHO, Your best adviser is you.
 
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If your swing is beyond repair, it may be time to get back to basics. Grip, stance and posture are the base and we build from there. Once you ha e your base, find the swing your want. Live lessons, online lessons, books or videos will work. But make sure there is a second set of eyes if you aren’t getting live lessons.
 
GolfLivesMatter said:
You've tried countless tips....you make progress...then decline...one day shots are mostly decent...the next day terrible. So is it time to start over? What I mean is assume the role of a beginning golfer starting with the grip, then stance, etc? It seems from my own experience the all the "add-on" tips from YouTube, magazines, buddies, resulted in a compounding of disjointed, counter-productive swing faults than what I originally had in the first place.
Click to expand...

I think basic address fundamentals (grip-posture-alignment) are all a beginning player really needs to learn.
And when Tour player's ball striking suffers, he/she typically checks grip-posture-alignment.
Ask an amateur shooting 90 and he will likely tell you "my grip is fine"......yet grip is something Tour pros are checking every day.
 
-CRW- said:
There is nothing complicated about the golf swing. There are no “advanced” moves or techniques. The problem is getting your brain and body to work together appropriately.

That being said, work on the basics every day you practice. Grip, posture, alignment - most of which can be done in front of a mirror at home at slow speeds.

It would help to learn cause and effects from different pieces of any given golf swing. How plane angles effect steepness/shallowness, how wrist hinge and cupping/bowing effect face angle, how face to path effects ball flight/curvature, etc. They are all like knobs on an equalizer. It may just be fine tuning one or two pieces to work together for your swing in order for you to get the results you want.

And don’t give up. For most it takes a long time to get decent at golf, much less “good”. Try to enjoy the journey for its ups and downs.
Click to expand...

Yes, good advice. How the brain and body interact is important for any sport that requires the body to perform in a certain manner. If one can minimize cognitive interference when swinging the club, he's halfway home. Then, practicing extensively on the correct swing basics may be the best approach for most of us. Of course, the younger you, will most likely bring quicker results.
 
I went through a dark period where I didn't break 80 for 4 years. I was asking the same question: should I just start over from scratch? Then I found myself in the woods on a par-4, and I had to play a cut over the trees to get to the green. It felt so good to hit that shot, and reminded me that my natural shape was left-to-right when I first started playing golf. I had spent a Summer in high school learning to draw the ball, and I played for many years afterwards playing that way with little consistency. So I started playing a fade again, and my whole golf game came together suddenly.

Unless your natural tendency is a dramatic OOT swing, maybe try to do what feels natural and work from there.
 
I wouldn't start over from scratch unless my instructor said so. Sometimes it's just a matter of getting some fresh, professional eyes on your swing.
 
GolfLivesMatter said:
You've tried countless tips....you make progress...then decline...one day shots are mostly decent...the next day terrible. So is it time to start over? What I mean is assume the role of a beginning golfer starting with the grip, then stance, etc? It seems from my own experience the all the "add-on" tips from YouTube, magazines, buddies, resulted in a compounding of disjointed, counter-productive swing faults than what I originally had in the first place.
Click to expand...

The problem with tips is sometimes they conflict. In any case, golf magazines have been publishing tips for decades and if they were of any use most of us would be playing pretty good golf. If you can, find a good instructor and stick with him...learn to play golf and not golf swing, which is what i am attempting to do.
 
-CRW- said:
There is nothing complicated about the golf swing. There are no “advanced” moves or techniques. The problem is getting your brain and body to work together appropriately.

That being said, work on the basics every day you practice. Grip, posture, alignment - most of which can be done in front of a mirror at home at slow speeds.

It would help to learn cause and effects from different pieces of any given golf swing. How plane angles effect steepness/shallowness, how wrist hinge and cupping/bowing effect face angle, how face to path effects ball flight/curvature, etc. They are all like knobs on an equalizer. It may just be fine tuning one or two pieces to work together for your swing in order for you to get the results you want.

And don’t give up. For most it takes a long time to get decent at golf, much less “good”. Try to enjoy the journey for its ups and downs.
Click to expand...

Good observation. I look at it this way: The back swing takes a second, so it's not like learning some complicated dance routine like on DWTS for 2 or more minutes. And some fairly famous instructors have told me in the past that (and as others have stated) pro's never overlook the basics like grip, stance, etc. Instead, they focus upon them along with maybe one key swing thought....that's it. Now that's not all pro's for sure, but most of the pro's they worked with.

I recently saw a Malaska video about the grip. He said wherever the left hand naturally hangs (angle, etc) is where to grip the club. That could be a strong grip for some, weak for others, but that's his observation...he calls that "neutral", or natural to one's body. I tried it and found my grip was too weak. At my request, my old golf coach sent me a pic of my grip in college. It was a strong grip. So somewhere along the line my grip migrated to being weaker. I bet it was a result of trying to get into some position years ago that prompted the migration. So I made that change and now my swing is easier to manage. But now that's triggered a "rolling ball" effect on the takeaway and how the club sits at the top of the BS.

The other thing was I started doing (for some unknown reason) is taking the club too outside on the takeaway, which led to my weight shifting forward slightly (toes), then when the club moved to the top, my weight shifted backwards (heels). But until I watched several videos...and re-created, I had no idea. Then at the transition my arms dropped too low and my right elbow was too far behind, and weight on my heels, leading to early extension. Working on these things is making a world of difference. Video, mirrors, slow-mo swings, short swings to practice, etc.

So the term "starting over" may be somewhat harsh, but in my brain going back to the grip and stance, and takeaway, feels like starting over. And to the other point made, it is kinda like fine tuning with an Equalizer.
 
Sean....Very very true. Must think "what happens before that point"...generally speaking.
 
I'm a hacker, so take anything I say with a grain or two..agree with all the posters, the basics are the start of any swing for me.

My first ah ha was where my ball is sitting. Give me enough balls on the range, a stable flat surface , I can even hit a 1 iron, once, lol. But the golf course is'nt the range. To me, taking a practice swing and finding out where my club really bottoms out made a world of difference for my consistency. Above your feet, below your feet, side hill, downhill. That forced me to move my ball position. That forced me to shift my shoulder angle in some cases, to be level with that ground. I was generally playing the ball to far forward in my stance for most shots and hit the big ball first.

The next (probably driven by something I read in a Pennick book) was to learn to hit targets. No instruction on how, just go do it. I can full swing balls at the range till the sun goes down, but unless there is a target, I have no idea what is happening. This is my third year spending the winter months hitting all my irons and wedges at specific targets. I have no idea how I'm doing it. Its forced me to aim better, keep my form, better face angle.

We are all so different body types-I'm a 65 year old, inflexible (I been working on that), overweight (working on that too) late in life starter. My full swing looks like most 10:30 swings for younger folks. I've gotta play with what I have today.

But I can only change one thing at a time.
 
I try and stay away from youtube, magazine, friends, etc tips. Swing your swing. When its not working for you, have a pro you trust work on it with you. Use the same pro regularly so they know you and your swing. I actually have 2 that I use and both are great. One started me out when I first took up the game and is quite a bit cheaper then any other around here. The other I use mostly now but he travels from November to March so I will sometimes see the other. I also feel like sometimes its good to get a different perspective and that is why I personally like having 2 I trust. Sometimes 2 people can tell you the same exact thing but in a different way and one makes the lightbulb come on and the other does not. When I was still in law enforcement I was a firearms instructor. We did this a lot with recruits on the range that struggled. If one instructor could not seem to help them, we would swap instructors until we found one that could explain things in a way that particular recruit understood. It also helped because sometimes one instructor would see something another would not. Quite a few times I was able to come in behind another instructor and get someone struggling up to par to qualify when the other could not. I would not recommend seeing a random different pro every time you need to work on something by any means but if one is not able to get it through my thick skull sometimes the other is just what the doctor ordered if that makes sense.
 
Golf is pretty simple actually people over complicate iv'e been there. In a nutshell you goal is to hit maybe 36 playable shots in 18 holes of golf that's it do this and you break 80. Of course we have little chips,bunker shots and putts but it's those 36 shots that matter in 9 it's 18 is that really very difficult? On the range you get started hit ugly shots then find a target and easily hit 8-10 good shots in a row followed by an average one and so on you've already done this in fact we all have Iv'e seen it! I think I have hit 25 or more just near perfect on the range reason being your not moving it's simple. You gotta master alignment and trust it that's the golf course difference after that just hit it. If you can get it down to where you hit 25 playable shots then your short game has a chance to save you makes golf fun. Sound to easy because it is all those tips are great, but in the end maybe 5 fundamentals like grip,alignment,posture,club selection and ball position is pretty much it.
 
When I have a big blow up round and want to toss my clubs in the lake off of the 18th green, I go back and read Hogan, chapter 5. So simple, 4 elements. Grip, stance, backswing, swing and follow through. If I could get that all in one, it would take no effort to play well. It is keeping all the other thoughts out of my head that is the difficulty. Then trying a smooth easy swing through the ball while keeping my concentration. Yes, golf is played in a 7" area.
 
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