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Playing friendly little wager match. Is it normally assumed its a skins?

Playing friendly little wager match. Is it normally assumed its a skins?

A buck a hole to me implies match play. Do you want to play for skins implies carryover to me. My one semi-regular group plays best ball match play for a quarter a hole, no carry overs. We also do greenies, par or better, no gimmes, no carries for another quarter. The first time me and our one buddy who plays regularly went over the rules, the other two were lost because we clarified a bunch of things. Small things like defining best ball. They agreed, because it was a quarter, but it took them a bit to understand.
 
Well you know what they say about assumptions it’s the mother of all f’ed up, it makes the Ass of u and me Ass-u-me, sorry I couldn’t resist. :D

Yes, when we said a buck a hole among 4 some it’s implied skins. Usually in our group when we have the push, we announce it before we get to the next hole, then before the tee shot someone would mention how many carry over on that hole. Not so much for the acknowledgement but more subtle gamesmanship.
 
Daddio said:
from above: 'Im thinking at this point worst I can do is tie and go 2-2-1. But he now (on last hole) has chance go 3-2 if playing with carryover'
... AND you could've gone 4-1 too.
But overall it's fine rollin, there is no 100% right or wrong, because it was all a grey area thing IMO. No one sought to clearly define things by declaration or questioning. I mean a simple "wait I thought it was a buck a hole?" when he made the statement on 18 could've cleared it all up too. It's hard to do after he won 18 as it could easily appear that you waited on the results incase you took 18. All in all $1 is a pretty cheap lesson that should prevent similar grey area assumptions from occurring in the future.
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Oh sure, not only was there nothing to cry about but also the whole thing held not much value as for anyone to be angry or anything at all. So, yea this was the very best way to discover something (or learn something).

But as for the discussion (or debate) I am still stuck on one main thing here which with due respect I just cant get past. And this is for anyone here who has mentioned opposing opinion. Its the fact that "a buck per hole" with no other mention of anything else means a buck per hole period. that is match play and nothing else.

Imo one doesn't have to assume they are playing anything else other than a buck per hole and no one should assume another thinks they are playing anything else. Reason being is that if skins was the intent, then that's the only time something needed to be mentioned. Otherwise match is only match period. Imo that's regardless of the fact that some people are use to playing skins in their regular group and/or almost always. Imo when someone says "BPH" you cant assume everyone else would think they are playing anything other than straight up match because that's what "BPH" can only mean.

Imo the person who called the challenge would need to say "skins" in order for it to be skins. Otherwise it can only be match. I just cant see this any other way because skins is an extra thing added to what otherwise is a simple match play....unless noted otherwise. LOL but that just seems correct to me.
 
If 4 people or less then I would assume carryovers but ask. More than 4 I would expect it to be like a tournament where the skins pool is divided by the number of skins won outright and that determines which each is worth.
 
Daddio said:
from above: 'Im thinking at this point worst I can do is tie and go 2-2-1. But he now (on last hole) has chance go 3-2 if playing with carryover'
... AND you could've gone 4-1 too.
But overall it's fine rollin, there is no 100% right or wrong, because it was all a grey area thing IMO. No one sought to clearly define things by declaration or questioning. I mean a simple "wait I thought it was a buck a hole?" when he made the statement on 18 could've cleared it all up too. It's hard to do after he won 18 as it could easily appear that you waited on the results incase you took 18. All in all $1 is a pretty cheap lesson that should prevent similar grey area assumptions from occurring in the future.
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Golfers are creatures from another planets when we start betting. I once have been in the middle of a friendly but heated argument over some technicality with 3 holes carry over worth less than $10 on the 9th green and once it was settle we went to the snack shack to pickup our lunch that we called in earlier and everyone fought to be the one who pays for the $50 tab. I’ve seen guys chocked on a 4 footer over $2, oh wait that was me. :D
 
When we play skins, we don't carryover any holes. If there is a tie, we start fresh on the next hole. We want to keep it friendly, and our concern is that, since we all score about the same, there is a chance that we could carry over a bunch of holes, and find ourselves playing one hole for $40 or more! Too much pressure for our old selves.
 
kevin81002 said:
You should see the list if stuff we play for on Saturday.
Skins
CP's on par3's
Blue Plates (CP in reg on par 5's)
Sand Saves
Birdies or eagles

All worth a dot.

Carryovers are in play on skins, CP's and Blue Plates. Oh... and it's handicapped.

We have one guy I play with, if he starts getting behind on dots he'll start aiming for the bunkers to try to catch up. lol
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Skins games with strokes is truly the nut low.
 
GenErr said:
When we play skins, we don't carryover any holes. If there is a tie, we start fresh on the next hole. We want to keep it friendly, and our concern is that, since we all score about the same, there is a chance that we could carry over a bunch of holes, and find ourselves playing one hole for $40 or more! Too much pressure for our old selves.
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I could be wrong but that then I believe is not skins. There have been a couple mentions here where skins is referred to separately from carry over. I think skins means the match is to be played with carry over/s. Play 1,2,3, whatever tied holes and the winner of the fourth wins the skin. No? The other way is simply match and ties are halved or in a way cancel each other out, which is what I believe your playing in your post when ties are just ties. Correct me of wrong anyone but if not...then hence this topic as for its purpose as to whether or not the player was wrong for assuming skins though never mentioned prior.
 
We play our version of skins where one tie all tie and no carry overs, a birdie on any hole (thst is not a par 3)is worth 2 dots. Par 3's are closest to the pin on the green wins 4 dots for a solo birdie, 3 for solo par or 2 for a matched pair or birdie.
Not a lot of money and we all just seem to pass the same money around depending on who's hot that week. But it puts a little more value on playing well.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 
I always assume match play unless skins is called out up front. For match play, I used to play a lot of 10/2 w/ automatic press @ 2 Down. 10 For the Match, 2 for each birdie, and if one player got to be 2 down, an additional match under the same conditions started. In more friendly matches, it was 5/1 without the automatic press, but the opponent could certainly press if they wanted to.
 
rollin said:
I could be wrong but that then I believe is not skins. There have been a couple mentions here where skins is referred to separately from carry over. I think skins means the match is to be played with carry over/s. Play 1,2,3, whatever tied holes and the winner of the fourth wins the skin. No? The other way is simply match and ties are halved or in a way cancel each other out, which is what I believe your playing in your post when ties are just ties. Correct me of wrong anyone but if not...then hence this topic as for its purpose as to whether or not the player was wrong for assuming skins though never mentioned prior.
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If you are playing skins with friends this is right but with multiple groups all in the skins game there aren't carry overs. If more than 1 person makes the lowest number then that hole no one wins. This normally leads to very few outright hole wins but say 2 people win a skin the skin pool is divided by the number won. It is normal to end up with 1 or 2 skins paying $500+

If you do no carry overs with 1 group only then the skin can be worth much more that the dollar amount you are playing for per hole.
So if it is ties then you don't carry the first 3 holes in your example to the 4th but there will be less skins won but they will be worth more.

Not even sure I am explaining it right.
 
ntanygd760 said:
If you are playing skins with friends this is right but with multiple groups all in the skins game there aren't carry overs. If more than 1 person makes the lowest number then that hole no one wins. This normally leads to very few outright hole wins but say 2 people win a skin the skin pool is divided by the number won. It is normal to end up with 1 or 2 skins paying $500+

If you do no carry overs with 1 group only then the skin can be worth much more that the dollar amount you are playing for per hole.
So if it is ties then you don't carry the first 3 holes in your example to the 4th but there will be less skins won but they will be worth more.

Not even sure I am explaining it right.
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Honestly Im not really understanding. That said, I don't mean to give you the unfortunate homework assignment of having to explain it all more specifically..lol cause I know it can be a lot. But it seems there are simply countless ways the game can be played (gambling wise) anyway and a hundred ways to explain them all. But many of them may not technically be skins in its basic form. Among 2 individuals and in basic form, match is match and skins is a match but with the added clause of carry over of value for ties. Imo that seems the basic explanation and difference between the two (match or skins) types of matches.

But this leads to another question...lol.
Lets say a 3some (players A,B,C) are playing with skins and players A and B tie hole #5 with two pars while player "C" lost that hole with a bogey.
So now the skin or value is carried over to the next hole (#6) for players A and B.
But what happens if player C (the loser of #5) then wins hole #6? Does player C then win the two holes even though he wasn't involved in the tie for #5?
 
rollin said:
Honestly Im not really understanding. That said, I don't mean to give you the unfortunate homework assignment of having to explain it all more specifically..lol cause I know it can be a lot. But it seems there are simply countless ways the game can be played (gambling wise) anyway and a hundred ways to explain them all. But many of them may not technically be skins in its basic form. Among 2 individuals and in basic form, match is match and skins is a match but with the added clause of carry over of value for ties. Imo that seems the basic explanation and difference between the two (match or skins) types of matches.

But this leads to another question...lol.
Lets say a 3some (players A,B,C) are playing with skins and players A and B tie hole #5 with two pars while player "C" lost that hole with a bogey.
So now the skin or value is carried over to the next hole (#6) for players A and B.
But what happens if player C (the loser of #5) then wins hole #6? Does player C then win the two holes even though he wasn't involved in the tie for #5?
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Typically yes. I've never seen a skins setup that wasn't 'two tie = all tie'.
FWIW n760 is spot on too. Carryovers skins are used typically used if just a foursome, doesn't have to be that way but is most of the time. 'Skins' in a larger group are normally a 'skins pot' kind of thing with no carry overs, (there could be so ask if it's not declared). Everyone kicks a set amount into the skins pot and after the round the pot is divided out to the 'one winner' skins. Whenever I join a local THPer's weekend group it works this way. Usually there are only 2-3 holes won outright if we've got 12-20 golfers. Sometimes one guy takes the whole skins pot.
 
Daddio said:
Typically yes. I've never seen a skins setup that wasn't 'two tie = all tie'.
FWIW n760 is spot on too. Carryovers skins are used typically used if just a foursome, doesn't have to be that way but is most of the time. 'Skins' in a larger group are normally a 'skins pot' kind of thing with no carry overs, (there could be so ask if it's not declared). Everyone kicks a set amount into the skins pot and after the round the pot is divided out to the 'one winner' skins. Whenever I join a local THPer's weekend group it works this way. Usually there are only 2-3 holes won outright if we've got 12-20 golfers. Sometimes one guy takes the whole skins pot.
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so basically (if im getting the gist) it seem the value in skins is still there even for tied holes (hence the term skins). So in one sense/form or another all holes still have value when talking skins even though not necessarily considered carry over. Where as its still different vs match in that sense.

But also if anyone doesn't mind. Can someone shed light on my last question in my last post about the scenario of players A,B,C. Or did you answer that when you said two-tie = all tie. That would mean even player C can win both holes even though he wasnt involved in the tie of the last hole. This would mean a tie by 2 of the 3 players still means no one won the hole and therefore that next hole can be won (for both holes) by any player of the 3. If this is the case. I can see that.
 
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rollin said:
I could be wrong but that then I believe is not skins. There have been a couple mentions here where skins is referred to separately from carry over. I think skins means the match is to be played with carry over/s. Play 1,2,3, whatever tied holes and the winner of the fourth wins the skin. No? The other way is simply match and ties are halved or in a way cancel each other out, which is what I believe your playing in your post when ties are just ties. Correct me of wrong anyone but if not...then hence this topic as for its purpose as to whether or not the player was wrong for assuming skins though never mentioned prior.
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Huh? I guess we don't play "skins" then. Didn't mean to go off topic!
 
rollin said:
so basically (if im getting the gist) it seem the value in skins is still there even for tied holes (hence the term skins). So in one sense/form or another all holes still have value when talking skins even though not necessarily considered carry over. Where as its still different vs match in that sense.

But also if anyone doesn't mind. Can someone shed light on my last question in my last post about the scenario of players A,B,C. Or did you answer that when you said two-tie = all tie. That would mean even player C can win both holes even though he wasnt involved in the tie of the last hole. This would mean a tie by 2 of the 3 players still means no one won the hole and therefore that next hole can be won (for both holes) by any player of the 3. If this is the case. I can see that.
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Yes that's what two tie = all tie means. Player C would still be in position to grab both skins on #6 despite not (literally) being in the tie on #5.
 
GenErr said:
Huh? I guess we don't play "skins" then. Didn't mean to go off topic!
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its not off topic fwiw , and hope you didn't take anything personal cause that was never an intent.
In your post it sounds like you guys basically play a straight match where as tied holes are won by no one and only holes that are won by someone are counted. In that sense you may for example have 6 holes of the 18 that no one won. That would then resemble basic match as there are no skins per say. A hole not won by anyone person is basically discarded and (as you explained) a fresh start on the next hole. I only explained how I see it and just a matter of terminology and fwiw also said I could be wrong.
 
I like to play Animals.
 
rollin said:
so basically (if im getting the gist) it seem the value in skins is still there even for tied holes (hence the term skins). So in one sense/form or another all holes still have value when talking skins even though not necessarily considered carry over. Where as its still different vs match in that sense.

But also if anyone doesn't mind. Can someone shed light on my last question in my last post about the scenario of players A,B,C. Or did you answer that when you said two-tie = all tie. That would mean even player C can win both holes even though he wasnt involved in the tie of the last hole. This would mean a tie by 2 of the 3 players still means no one won the hole and therefore that next hole can be won (for both holes) by any player of the 3. If this is the case. I can see that.
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Yeah I didn't explain it that well and as you can see there are so many slight differences clearing it up before starting is the way to go.

I have never played any other way with carry overs except 2 tie all tie. It is pretty high variance but if you play with the same people a bunch not a huge deal.

So yeah if player A and B score 4 and the other 2 score 5 but then player C wins the next he gets both skins if you are plying carry over even though he didn't tie the first hole.
 
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