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Do Average Golfers Even Care if the Pros Play By the Same Rules??

I sure wouldn't care. There are way too many rules for me to even want to attempt to understand them all. Condense the rules down to a simple set that's easy to understand for amateurs, it makes the game more fun and would hopefully speed it up.
 
Fupresti hit the nail on the head. No reason to change them, because most amateurs don't care what the rules are. Got paired up with a guy who over the first 9 holes hit 3 provisionals off the tee. On the 10th hole he hit towards a hazard that was over a hill. I go you might want to hit a provisional, and he goes what do I care, I am the only one looking at my scorecard.

He later proceeded to take a few mulligans, I didn't care, just thought it was a bit strange. In a competition obviously it is a different story, but for recreational rounds most players either aren't cognizant of the rules or don't really care.
 
Only thing that bugs me sometimes is having to take a lost ball penalty when the pros would never have to in the same situation with all the fans and spotters.
 
On one hand, I like playing the same equipment and rules as the pros. It makes the spectacle of what a pro can do more entertaining when I can compare my best against them straight up.

On the other hand, stroke and distance needs to die for amateurs. With galleries, TV crews and shot link staff, they find every errant ball. Us hackers don't get that benefit and thus we suffer from the rules (or just don't follow them).
 
I want to play by the exact same rules as the Pros, there will never be two sets of rules for me, I don't see a problem with the game as it is now.
 
I like playing the same rules as the pros...with that said certain rules should be amended...(like the fairway divot) to make it a better experience.
The other example I can give is to do away with the white stake. Make it some other color and allow the golfer to keep the distance while not being able to hit out of the area.

There is an example going around the internet of a golfer trying to earn his tour card. If I can find it I'll post the link.

Basically, he putts, the wind blows a leaf, that hits his ball and moves it off the path. Needless to say the putt is missed. He lines up and putts it again to take a bogey.

Little did he know, (nor did anyone else know) that he was not able to putt from where the ball stopped, he had to replace the ball and putt from where he was.
Why? I don't know. If the leaf blew in and stopped, and the ball rolled over it off line, it is no issue. Stupid. Anyway, he was assessed a penalty for not replacing his ball...

Add to that, he got penalized for signing an inaccurate scorecard. These penalties added up to no card for him...he was in position to waltz in with his card.

This stuff is what drives me crazy.

Here it is:
http://www.golf.com/tour-news/2017/09/24/pro-golfers-ball-hit-blowing-leaf-leads-four-stroke-penalty
 
Just once, Id like to see a tour pro have to find his own ball without any assistance from the air, Tv cameras, or 200 or so (or more) eyes that find it for them regardless where it is before they even leave the tee box. This is why imo stroke and distance for a lost ball is a joke. Its a rule they rarely (if ever at all) abide by simply because it never happens. Id love to see them have to hit a provisional because they went into the fescue or how about watching one of them walk through it searching and then have to take the S&D penalty while their ball was only a few yards (but hidden) of where they were looking and just like us cant see it. Or the rough, or under a leaf, clippings of grass or even in the woods a tad, etc.

That would be nice to see...see them have to deal with that crap even if not as often as us. Everything about this speaks for the fact that S&D for us is ridiculous. In reality its only us amateurs that get hit with this rule anyway. In reality it almost doesn't even exist on tour.
 
I remember several provisional balls being hit at the Scottish Open.
 
I pretty much play by the rules. I'm not posting these rounds (at least anymore) anyways so when playing by myself I lose a ton of balls. I just can't pick them up off the club. I generally have a decent idea of where they'll end up based on feel and I never spend 5 minutes looking. I'll go over the expected landing area a couple times and then drop one and move on. Especially now that it's fall, I really give up searches early.

There. I admitted it. I'm a heathen.
 
ntanygd760 said:
I remember several provisional balls being hit at the Scottish Open.
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fair enough, but how many of those originals were then found (not lost)?. And how many times do we as amateurs cant find balls that are not even off the beat and path much but well enough in play? Those types of balls are "never" lost when they play.
 
cbaker2882 said:
Not in the slightest. they play in such vastly different conditions there is no point.
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This. The course conditions and course lengths are entirely different where most amateurs play. So I guess the rules don't change for pros or ams, but the game itself does. An amateur can play by whatever rules he/she chooses, but they are only cheating themselves with an illegitimate score. If you're gonna "cheat" at all to improve your score or make the game easier, why not just cheat yourself to even par? The only time I can see amateurs bending the rules where pros don't being somehow acceptable is to keep pace of play, something pros don't have to worry about.
 
rollin said:
Just once, Id like to see a tour pro have to find his own ball without any assistance from the air, Tv cameras, or 200 or so (or more) eyes that find it for them regardless where it is before they even leave the tee box. This is why imo stroke and distance for a lost ball is a joke. Its a rule they rarely (if ever at all) abide by simply because it never happens. Id love to see them have to hit a provisional because they went into the fescue or how about watching one of them walk through it searching and then have to take the S&D penalty while their ball was only a few yards (but hidden) of where they were looking and just like us cant see it. Or the rough, or under a leaf, clippings of grass or even in the woods a tad, etc.

That would be nice to see...see them have to deal with that crap even if not as often as us. Everything about this speaks for the fact that S&D for us is ridiculous. In reality its only us amateurs that get hit with this rule anyway. In reality it almost doesn't even exist on tour.
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There are lots of pros who don't get 200+ people following them. I've walked congressional where it was me and two,other guys following groups.
 
I just remember playing baseball and football (and golf) as a kid, and how we'd adjust the rules to suit the grounds or a lack of a player, etc. Do the "official" rules really mean that much to weekenders?

I mean, my buddies and I always play lift, clean, and place, but if you do so, you have to kiss the ball and say outloud "I'm a girly-man!" Standing rule.

I do like knowing we're playing by the same rules, but we certainly don't play in the same conditions with the same skills. The fairway divot thing is just ridiculous. I can understand playing it as it lies in the rough, by they MOW the fairways to make them, well, fair.

I guess I think that all USGA tournies should play by the rules of golf, unless the club deems a certain local rule in effect. And the PGA/PGA Tour should get rid of the illogical rules and share a spanking new rule book that makes golf easier to watch. Me, I don't like seeing a big playoff ruined if someone's 340-yard-drive ends up in a deep divot.
 
I don't like 2 sets of rules especially since 90% of the golfers I see don't follow the rules strictly anyway. There is no need for the pros to play a different ball or clubs with average driving distance on tour remaining basically the same(290 yards)since the Pro V1 came out 18 years ago.
 
Go4it said:
I like playing the same rules as the pros...with that said certain rules should be amended...(like the fairway divot) to make it a better experience.
The other example I can give is to do away with the white stake. Make it some other color and allow the golfer to keep the distance while not being able to hit out of the area.

There is an example going around the internet of a golfer trying to earn his tour card. If I can find it I'll post the link.

Basically, he putts, the wind blows a leaf, that hits his ball and moves it off the path. Needless to say the putt is missed. He lines up and putts it again to take a bogey.

Little did he know, (nor did anyone else know) that he was not able to putt from where the ball stopped, he had to replace the ball and putt from where he was.
Why? I don't know. If the leaf blew in and stopped, and the ball rolled over it off line, it is no issue. Stupid. Anyway, he was assessed a penalty for not replacing his ball...

Add to that, he got penalized for signing an inaccurate scorecard. These penalties added up to no card for him...he was in position to waltz in with his card.

This stuff is what drives me crazy.

Here it is:
http://www.golf.com/tour-news/2017/09/24/pro-golfers-ball-hit-blowing-leaf-leads-four-stroke-penalty
Click to expand...


Let's break this one down.

1) An outside agency deflects a ball in motion on the putting green. When the rule was being written, I can only guess the writers were thinking of more severe situations. Such as you putt and your fellow competitor is not watching where he walks and accidentally kicks your ball off the green. Or a squirrel darts across the green and knocks your ball 5-feet away.

I'm guessing they weren't so much thinking about where a leaf hits your ball and moves it a fraction of an inch. Ok, so what now? Do we change the rule?

"If your ball is deflected by an outside agency which has a total mass of 2.34 grams or greater, cancel the stroke." Or, "if you ball is deflected no more than 4.25 inches, play the ball as it lies, otherwise cancel the stroke." Or two rules? One for leafs, one for everything else?

The easiest change would probably be to say "No matter where the ball lies, if a ball in motion is deflected by an outside agency, play the ball as it lies." Now though, if your buddy accidentally kicks your ball off the green into a bunker, or a squirrel runs through and does so, then that's just a bad break for you. Sound fair?


2) The penalty for playing from a wrong place is on him. It's his responsibility to know the rules. If he doesn't and he acts incorrectly, he deserves the penalty he gets and he deserves whatever outcome comes with it, such as not earning his tour card.

"But," you say, "the rules are so complex! Nobody can be expected to know them." Yeah - except those rules officials, who in about 90% of golf, are just volunteers. If they can understand the rules, why can't a golf pro, who is doing nothing but focusing on golf 6-days a week? Billy Bob can adjudicate the rules successfully despite the fact he works at Jiffy Lube 6-days a week, but a golf pro can't?

I'm certainly not going to argue the rules aren't complex, nor that they could not be more simple in some areas (aka rules changes for 2019). However, it's not nearly as easy as everyone thinks to simplify the rules. Golf just has too many weird situations.

3) The place I do agree with you is on the signing of the incorrect scorecard penalty. While I understand the reasoning for that rule, I do think it should be changed to "no penalty unless there is evidence the player knew they had violated a rule."
 
I'm generally in agreement with Fup here. I do think shot & distance is a little rough for most ams and the pace of play if they don't think to hit a provisional (it's not always clearly marked to see from the tee box). Even continuing on with that, what does the game really gain from separate rule sets?

I also like to watch the pros play equipment that's similar, though probably way more refined, to what I play. Makes it more interesting for me.
 
I don’t care one bit. Beer league softball uses different rules than Major League Baseball, YMCA basketball has different rules than the NBA, and adult league soccer isn’t playing by Premier League rules. It only makes sense for amateurs and pros to have different rules, but since when do the powers that be in golf care about what makes sense?
 
If I were forced to play by the rules I’d have to quit the game. What the pros play no more resembles my game than my income resembles theirs. I enjoyed this thread I know I’m not alone in this Golf world.
 
The reality is this: These are professionals at a level even scratch players can't imagine. They are earning a crazy living at the sport in which they are expert. To earn this living, they must abide by the rules of the game. If their little brains can't handle every single rule and interpretation, we have senior citizen volunteers who can step in and make the ruling for you, so it would be a good idea to just double-check with them. If you don't, it is on you. Hope that isn't too hard for them on their salary. If it is, hire someone to walk with your caddie to remind you that you need to check the rules.

What I'm struggling with is TV, the call-ins after the fact, and the double-down penalties for signing an incorrect scorecard in hindsight. All of that is ridiculous, nearly criminal.

We all pretend that it is the golf and the scores and the victories that count the most. However, it is the money. A tiny, tiny percentage of players have success their whole careers. At best, you hope to have a couple/three of great years, earn $20 million, hope you get endorsements and TV, then only $500,000 the next year for a few years, then less.

Look at Hunter Mahan. He was a top player a couple of years ago, more than $20 million earnings, he's done TV, he has sponsors. Last year I'm not sure he earned six figures. Anthony Kim, the same, and others.

My point---if the pros don't know the rules when so much money is on the line, that's bad. But still, they have recourse and an official right there who can resolve any question. All they need to know is ENOUGH. Some don't even know that.

Yet you and I and all us hacks worry about knowing the rules. Our rules can never be the same as the pro rules. I don't care what is in the rule book, it is all about what is at stake, what help is immediately accessible, and how responsible you are to your own sport.
 
For me I firmly believe there should be only one set of rules. Period. That said, any group or club can have local rules. It's what we do today. Mulligans, inside the leather gimmes, improved lies in the fairways, etc. I see few problems in letting our local rules over-ride official rules . . . the primary one is being able to establish fair and equitable handicaps. But that problem exists today.
 
TripleF said:
For me I firmly believe there should be only one set of rules. Period. That said, any group or club can have local rules. It's what we do today. Mulligans, inside the leather gimmes, improved lies in the fairways, etc. I see few problems in letting our local rules over-ride official rules . . . the primary one is being able to establish fair and equitable handicaps. But that problem exists today.
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But fair handicaps would still exist just the same as they do now when all amateurs play by the same rules anyway even if some those rules differed from pro rules. The only time handicaps are not fair or skewed would be if amateurs played by different rules among themselves. As long as every handicapper uses the same rules it doesn't matter.
 
rollin said:
But fair handicaps would still exist just the same as they do now when all amateurs play by the same rules anyway even if some those rules differed from pro rules. The only time handicaps are not fair or skewed would be if amateurs played by different rules among themselves. As long as every handicapper uses the same rules it doesn't matter.
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Today a large percentage of amateur regular groups uses slightly different rules they adopt. Everything from mulligans, gimmies, lost balls, out of bounds, maximum score on a hole, etc. I simply can't believe if special amateur rules were established that this would end. So handicaps are questionable today and would continue to be questionable with bifurcated rules. We fool ourselves . . .
 
My motto
Let the pros do what they will and let me do what I prefer to do in order to enjoy my day
 
Id say most dont care and Id even go so far as to say that most casual golfers dont play by the rules anyways. I see a lot of mulligans and foot wedges out there.
 
TripleF said:
Today a large percentage of amateur regular groups uses slightly different rules they adopt. Everything from mulligans, gimmies, lost balls, out of bounds, maximum score on a hole, etc. I simply can't believe if special amateur rules were established that this would end. So handicaps are questionable today and would continue to be questionable with bifurcated rules. We fool ourselves . . .
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are mulli's and gimmies really part of events where those involved will then post those scores for their official handicaps? If that's the case, then yea Id say its skewed because not all amateurs are then playing by the same rules as each other. But even if they are doing such things, those things then work to lower ones cap and that hurts no one but themselves. So there isn't much going on that would be unfair to others anyway. No?

I mean so some people are running a lower cap (or a vanity cap) than what they actually deserve. Who does that hurt? IDK that answer so its just an honest question.
 
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