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Pace of competitive golf

rollin

rollin

"Just playin golf pally"
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For those who play competitive golf I am curious to ask.
Firstly forgive my ignorance with competitive golf but I assume (correct if wrong) there are different levels of competitive golf. Perhaps weakly fun and friendly leagues vs perhaps working up to things like state or regional amateur championships etc and anything in between or even further beyond.

With that said (if correct) then I would ask. Does pace of the rounds move slower as the significance of the competition itself increases? Basically as there is more to win or lose, or more importance to the round does it affect how long it takes everyone to play and take shots and line up putts etc etc.
Does it take a lot longer than 4hrs as the significance goes up and if it does is it all of a sudden "ok" for it to do so? Again I am ignorant to whats normal practice in such situations. But I ask because I want to know do we then become righteous about it? do you have the right to complain about the masses taking too long in casual golf or the pros taking too long on tour but then when its you playing in competition of great significance to you it all of a sudden becomes "ok"? is it any more justified?.
 
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Generally the pace does slow down. People take more time to think about shots, there are no gimmes on the greens so that adds time as well. I play in some 1-day amateur tournaments up here and the pace of play is brutal for that reason.
 
arydolphin said:
Generally the pace does slow down. People take more time to think about shots, there are no gimmes on the greens so that adds time as well. I play in some 1-day amateur tournaments up here and the pace of play is brutal for that reason.
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Which is wrong and obnoxious as pace of play should be enforced IMO.
 
arydolphin said:
Generally the pace does slow down. People take more time to think about shots, there are no gimmes on the greens so that adds time as well. I play in some 1-day amateur tournaments up here and the pace of play is brutal for that reason.
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It used to be really bad for the Golf Week tour here. An 8 hour round was a fast one. Since we've got a new tour director, it has gotten a lot better. Now 4 hours is a long round. The rule is 15 min behind the group in front. If you fall behind once it is a one stroke penalty for the group. If it happens a second time, regardless of who is at fault, the entire foresome is DQ'd.
 
Adam Hartzell said:
If you fall behind once it is a one stroke penalty for the group. If it happens a second time, regardless of who is at fault, the entire foresome is DQ'd.
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That's pretty harsh... but I like it!
 
Played with a guy last week and it reminded me of why i posted this thread.
We were moving along well so pace was not an issue but his firend who was a casual (non competitive player) chose to try to make his fairly close putts. And this guy (and he was a nice guy) but he would say to his friend more than a few times and imply the following logic. "ahh come on, just pick it up, its not like it means anything". Wasnt nasty at all but none the less I thought it was very wrong.

And that is exactly what i am talking about for this thread. This idea that because he was not in a competitive round that counted for anything and his buddy doesnt play comprtitive golf it gave him the right to tell his buddy that there is no reason to take the extra time to putt it. And this even said while pace was just fine. But yet because he played competitive golf else where at other times he was only allowed to make his similar putts? Because he had to pracrtice for his next competitive round? So all a sudden taking extra time now became ok? Just a total sense of entitlement somehow that only competitive players are allowed to take more time to do their stuff and ver hypocritical if you ask me.

Many people who play this game very seriously and play competitive and are good some how form a false sense of entitlement (even if they dont realize it) and may not even be intentional but some how think they can dictate what the masses who play casual rounds should and shouldnt do. But it also some times comes with this idea that its only ok for them to take extra time to do things but for anyone else of poorer ability and of a non competitive nature its no longer acceptable. And this imo is all part of why as the more the signifigance goes up, the more the pace slows down. Also why i braught up this thread
 
rollin said:
Played with a guy last week and it reminded me of why i posted this thread.
We were moving along well so pace was not an issue but his firend who was a casual (non competitive player) chose to try to make his fairly close putts. And this guy (and he was a nice guy) but he would say to his friend more than a few times and imply the following logic. "ahh come on, just pick it up, its not like it means anything". Wasnt nasty at all but none the less I thought it was very wrong.

And that is exactly what i am talking about for this thread. This idea that because he was not in a competitive round that counted for anything and his buddy doesnt play comprtitive golf it gave him the right to tell his buddy that there is no reason to take the extra time to putt it. And this even said while pace was just fine. But yet because he played competitive golf else where at other times he was only allowed to make his similar putts? Because he had to pracrtice for his next competitive round? So all a sudden taking extra time now became ok? Just a total sense of entitlement somehow that only competitive players are allowed to take more time to do their stuff and ver hypocritical if you ask me.

Many people who play this game very seriously and play competitive and are good some how form a false sense of entitlement (even if they dont realize it) and may not even be intentional but some how think they can dictate what the masses who play casual rounds should and shouldnt do. But it also some times comes with this idea that its only ok for them to take extra time to do things but for anyone else of poorer ability and of a non competitive nature its no longer acceptable. And this imo is all part of why as the more the signifigance goes up, the more the pace slows down. Also why i braught up this thread
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I disagree. I don't think it has anything to do with entitlement as you say. If one of my buddies was taking a long time to putt out the really short putts, I would probably say something similar and I certainly know that I don't feel entitled to anything.

If his friend was getting upset with him about it, then you might be on to something, otherwise I think you might just be reading a little bit too much into the situation. Just my opinion though from what you have posted here.
 
Mulligan9111 said:
I disagree. I don't think it has anything to do with entitlement as you say. If one of my buddies was taking a long time to putt out the really short putts, I would probably say something similar and I certainly know that I don't feel entitled to anything.

If his friend was getting upset with him about it, then you might be on to something, otherwise I think you might just be reading a little bit too much into the situation. Just my opinion though from what you have posted here.
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It was a friendly atmoaphere so its not that it turned into any big deal. But what was wrong about it is that he always took the time to putt his. I've never seen one tell another not to bother but then yet that same person does it? Wrong and very hyporicitical imo.
 
rollin said:
It was a friendly atmoaphere so its not that it turned into any big deal. But what was wrong about it is that he always took the time to putt his. I've never seen one tell another not to bother but then yet that same person does it? Wrong and very hyporicitical imo.
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I hear ya, but at that point his buddy could have said the same thing back to him. I'm not sure how well you know either of them, but maybe it was an inside joke type of thing between them. I don't know, I just think that if neither of them got upset about it, it's kind of a non-issue.
 
Mulligan9111 said:
I hear ya, but at that point his buddy could have said the same thing back to him. I'm not sure how well you know either of them, but maybe it was an inside joke type of thing between them. I don't know, I just think that if neither of them got upset about it, it's kind of a non-issue.
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Its not so much at all that this in itself was an issue because it didnt ever turn out to be one. It just made me think that this kind of small thing can be part of the broader picture in general of how it sometimes seem things can become ok when its good for one but not another.

We always discuss pace up, down, and sideways and it is often said by many (including myself) that it can quite often be a better player causing the issues yet that same player will mention how causual players take too much time and even advocate for things as though to dictate how and what the masses should do because the round holds no significent meaning to them in his opinion. But at the same time the very same things are ok to do when he feels like he wants to. If i played competitive golf or was very good I just may feel the same way. Who knows? I might be guilty of the same thing, I just dont know. Its just human nature to sometimes feel a sense of entitlenment (even if not intentional) when one is use to certain things because we view it differently.
 
rollin said:
Its not so much at all that this in itself was an issue because it didnt ever turn out to be one. It just made me think that this kind of small thing can be part of the broader picture in general of how it sometimes seem things can become ok when its good for one but not another.

We always discuss pace up, down, and sideways and it is often said by many (including myself) that it can quite often be a better player causing the issues yet that same player will mention how causual players take too much time and even advocate for things as though to dictate how and what the masses should do because the round holds no significent meaning to them in his opinion. But at the same time the very same things are ok to do when he feels like he wants to. If i played competitive golf or was very good I just may feel the same way. Who knows? I might be guilty of the same thing, I just dont know. Its just human nature to sometimes feel a sense of entitlenment (even if not intentional) when one is use to certain things because we view it differently.
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Anybody can contribute to slow play and I don't think it has anything to do with whether or not someone plays "competitive" golf. It's going to boil down to each individual person. Perfect example is looking at the PGA Tour. There are players like Kevin Na and then there are players like Brandt Snedeker. So it honestly has nothing to do with whether someone plays competitive golf or not, just my opinion.
 
Pace of play is one of the issues the game has gettting new people to start playing in a socity that wants every thing now people will not want to wait 5-6 hours to play and when they see pros play at a 5 or 6 hr pace it just reinforces the idea that golf is to slow i belive the pace needs to be enforced more strictly on the compeditive level so it will work its way down to the every day golfer. if the slow pro's are speed up it will encourage amaeturs to as well there is nothing like watching a guy plum bob a 3 footer for a double or triple
 
Playing in a 4-some that has to putt everything out, will always take longer than the 4-some game that can say "it's good pick it up" in the Florida summers we also deal with Cart path only, which will really slow things down.
 
Mulligan9111 said:
Anybody can contribute to slow play and I don't think it has anything to do with whether or not someone plays "competitive" golf. It's going to boil down to each individual person. Perfect example is looking at the PGA Tour. There are players like Kevin Na and then there are players like Brandt Snedeker. So it honestly has nothing to do with whether someone plays competitive golf or not, just my opinion.
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jhstew1 said:
Playing in a 4-some that has to putt everything out, will always take longer than the 4-some game that can say "it's good pick it up" in the Florida summers we also deal with Cart path only, which will really slow things down.
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Dont competitive rounds ususally take longer? And the more competitive or higher the steaks or more siginificance to the competitive golf, doesnt it usually take longer as the signifigance rises? I assume that would hold true from a friendly wager game right up and through the tour pros and everything in between. taking longer as the significance rises. Going back to my original post. If it does then why? not so much why because its kind of obvious but more like why would that then be ok for some people who when not playing competitive now take issue with many of those same things that cause slower pace.

As I said. I just dont know but I assume just may be I too would be taking some more time to putt and do some other things if the round held greater siginificance. I just dont know, but lets face it, if your making putts in a state championship I would think one would take more time. But if I did I also would then not be rightgeouse to complain about those same things to others for doing it in casual rounds because that casual round may be just as important to that person than ones competitive round means to him. I am not advocating for everyone putting out everything and in fact am a big supporter the other way around but just that it cant be wrong to be rightgeouse for one to dictate things one way when he himself finds those things only ok to do when it suits him only. Slower pace in itself all of a sudden can of be ok because it now suits the persons needs of his own importance.
 
rollin said:
Dont competitive rounds ususally take longer? And the more competitive or higher the steaks or more siginificance to the competitive golf, doesnt it usually take longer as the signifigance rises? I assume that would hold true from a friendly wager game right up and through the tour pros and everything in between. taking longer as the significance rises. Going back to my original post. If it does then why? not so much why because its kind of obvious but more like why would that then be ok for some people who when not playing competitive now take issue with many of those same things that cause slower pace.

As I said. I just dont know but I assume just may be I too would be taking some more time to putt and do some other things if the round held greater siginificance. I just dont know, but lets face it, if your making putts in a state championship I would think one would take more time. But if I did I also would then not be rightgeouse to complain about those same things to others for doing it in casual rounds because that casual round may be just as important to that person than ones competitive round means to him. I am not advocating for everyone putting out everything and in fact am a big supporter the other way around but just that it cant be wrong to be rightgeouse for one to dictate things one way when he himself finds those things only ok to do when it suits him only. Slower pace in itself all of a sudden can of be ok because it now suits the persons needs of his own importance.
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Something you are forgetting about is that in competitive rounds, every player in the field is also trying to follow the rules of golf to the letter. When you are playing a casual round with your buddies, you don't need to follow the rules of golf to the letter because those decisions usually only effect you and your buddies game. The problem is that some players take it to the extreme while in competition, which is why a lot of competitive rounds take WAY to long. But again that has nothing to do with competitive golf and everything to do with that individual.

I honestly don't think what you are talking about is a widespread problem within the golfing community.

Again, just my opinion.
 
Good points "mulli"
The higher the competitive significance I must say must get pretty nerve racking. But perhaps one gets use to it I dont know. I cant imagine putting a 4 footer for a llarge sum of money or some prestigeous title. I find it harder to make a 4 footer for birdie than I do a bogey and thats only meaningful to my score and no one or anything else. I cant imagine what it must be like to try that same one for the big marbles. At least the first few times you would have to do it. I wonder how many never do get quite use to it. I wonder how many pro's are not on top (not because they are not capable) but simply because they cant handle the nerves in such situations or for that matter how players are not even pros due to the same reasons. Good enough to be but crack under the pressure. Its got to be a bit crazy on the nerves or a lot of bit.
 
Today's competitive play was going very very slow. We were 1 1/2 holes behind after 8 holes. I am kinda a slow player...two practice swings, looks putts both sides if I am on the uphill. Today's round was out'a hand 5:30mins I think or near that. I usually play 3:45-4hrs on a regular non comp day

Most of the group was playing like crap (including me fighting the flu) and the slow play was like no rythmn or anything going. After 8 holes we were told to pick it up to a certain hole.. by a time, and if we missed that we all got 2 strokes taken away. WOW!!! play picked up fast and we all started playing better...a lot better

I know comps can get slow and everyone checking each shot to the max...it did not work well today. My advise take a good read and swing/putt, your first thought is prob correct

Why would one want to play a comp at a different slower pace to a regular round?...odds are to shoot worse IMO
 
I rarely putt out from under 3 feet in rounds that don't mean anything. There isn't much point as I am not going to miss it and I practice short putts a ton off the course. As I am going to start playing city amateur events this year I am sure putting out will slow things down and I am going to mark it, give it a quick wipe and point the line at my spot and then finish.
 
I have to putt out everything right now because I'm working on my putting. Not even a 2 footer is a gimme. It is that bad. And I have to go through the shot routine if I'm going to sink that two footer.... it is that bad. I can miss them pretty easily. I'm practicing my putting. Really I am. But I have some days.

The only things I can do is walk at a brisk pace to my ball and be ready to make my shot. The day I have to start riding in a cart is the day I'm giving up the game.
 
In our state amateur events, we have a pace-of-play sheet and will penalize groups who are out of position. I haven't had to call a penalty yet, but I have given several groups warnings they were getting close.

One thing that does slow pace of play in such serious competition is that players will ALWAYS take their full 5 minutes looking for a ball, and it's not unusual for rulings to be required since nobody wants to do the wrong thing. There's not much in the way of "ah, just drop there - that's close enough" in a US Open regional qualifier. :)
 
ntanygd760 said:
I rarely putt out from under 3 feet in rounds that don't mean anything. There isn't much point as I am not going to miss it and I practice short putts a ton off the course. As I am going to start playing city amateur events this year I am sure putting out will slow things down and I am going to mark it, give it a quick wipe and point the line at my spot and then finish.
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I know this is off topic... for 3ft n under firm the grip/wrists up, take it back short back swing and very slow, the accelerate to impact. You will keep the blade square. I see so many limp wristed putters miss left rolling the wrists.

I think putting out inside 3 ft shows confidence and speeds up play
 
ProZoneGolf said:
I know this is off topic... for 3ft n under firm the grip/wrists up, take it back short back swing and very slow, the accelerate to impact. You will keep the blade square. I see so many limp wristed putters miss left rolling the wrists.

I think putting out inside 3 ft shows confidence and speeds up play
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That's good advice. I wish I followed it more often!!
 
InTheRough said:
I have to putt out everything right now because I'm working on my putting. Not even a 2 footer is a gimme. It is that bad. And I have to go through the shot routine if I'm going to sink that two footer.... it is that bad. I can miss them pretty easily. I'm practicing my putting. Really I am. But I have some days.

The only things I can do is walk at a brisk pace to my ball and be ready to make my shot. The day I have to start riding in a cart is the day I'm giving up the game.
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this gets to be a tricky situation because while full putting routines for a 2 footer can cause pace problems though they don't really have to. And many times people will become a bit annoyed with you doing that while pace (and your groups pace) in general is not slow at all. People simply don't want to wait at all regardless of pace. How many times I have rushed a shorty putt for sake of moving on and only to realize we will wait on the next tee anyway, or realize we are not playing slow at all. It sort of becomes senseless at times to rush just because others want to move even though there is no problem. Now with that said, many pace problems do stem from greens play no doubt.

I find when one gets toio accustomed to taking gimmies , one also then begins to struggle to make those short putts from lack of actually doing it enough. So I think we need to find a happy medium for when and when not to finish all out. Be aware of what we are doing and wether or not it is anything at all detrimental towards pace. There is this misguided logic (even posted on some golf courses) that you must keep up with the group ahead of you. And while this would usually work in general its far from what is always correct. Imo just like it is wrong to slow an entire course, its also just as wrong to force a group to rush simply because the group ahead are speed rabbits. When I want to finish out putting completely even for a shorty, I will do it provided I/we are not slow and/or provided the next group ahead is right in front of us. If someone doesn't like it, I tell them go on ahead and I'll finish up. But as said, imo we do have to be careful when and how we do it because putting can be a real pace detriment .
 
ProZoneGolf said:
I know this is off topic... for 3ft n under firm the grip/wrists up, take it back short back swing and very slow, the accelerate to impact. You will keep the blade square. I see so many limp wristed putters miss left rolling the wrists.

I think putting out inside 3 ft shows confidence and speeds up play
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I am perfectly happy to putt out inside 3 feet, honestly makes zero difference to me.

When I am in full grind mode I spend a ton of time on the putting green making myself make 25 straight 3 footers and 25 straight 5 footers before moving on like 5 days a week.
 
ProZoneGolf said:
I know this is off topic... for 3ft n under firm the grip/wrists up, take it back short back swing and very slow, the accelerate to impact. You will keep the blade square. I see so many limp wristed putters miss left rolling the wrists.

I think putting out inside 3 ft shows confidence and speeds up play
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I don't think it speeds up play. How can doing something speed up play vs not doing something? If we don't do it, we are already done. its that simple imo. But that said I have no issue with putting out and at times want to do it myself. But its a matter how one goes about it. Finish up after a lag put is one way (when possible to do it) to speed the process a lot imo. Allowing another to stand on my line so they can finish up also helps the situation and unless greens are very mushy is something I don't mind doing.
 
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