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Article about Green speeds and golfer enjoyment

No not shocking. I dont care though. I like them fast.
 
That is the most obvious article ever. They are leaving out a massively important part though on green slope. 10.5 stimp is boring and slow on normal new cc greens with not a lot on slope and borderline unplayable on some old school courses that don't even have spots on the green that have anyplace with under 3% to put a pin.

My favorite course in the area almost all the greens the ball would not stop anywhere on the green if they were to stimp at 11
 
ntanygd760 said:
That is the most obvious article ever. They are leaving out a massively important part though on green slope. 10.5 stimp is boring and slow on normal new cc greens with not a lot on slope and borderline unplayable on some old school courses that don't even have spots on the green that have anyplace with under 3% to put a pin.
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I agree about it being obvious just thought I would share and see what others thought.
 
Not shocking at all. If the putting green is kept in the same condition at the playing greens and you can practice before you hit the course it shouldn't be an issue.
 
TheCrest4 said:
I agree about it being obvious just thought I would share and see what others thought.
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Yeah my reply came off way more dickish than I meant it too. My main thought is they are leaving out the important part of some courses can handle very fast greens without getting to the point of unfair. While faster will be a little slower to play I don't think it changes golfers enjoyment until they start getting close to that unfair line.
 
ntanygd760 said:
Yeah my reply came off way more dickish than I meant it too. My main thought is they are leaving out the important part of some courses can handle very fast greens without getting to the point of unfair. While faster will be a little slower to play I don't think it changes golfers enjoyment until they start getting close to that unfair line.
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All good man. That’s why I put it up here and I honestly didn’t even think about the slope until you mentioned it.
 
Thank you for the share on this one. Really interesting read.
 
I prefer faster greens but it is also dependent on the course. My home course has several holes that are all but impossable when they start approaching 11. One in particular I had an uphill 25’ putt. I got the ball to 3 inches short of the hole and the ball rolled all the way behind where I was. It was insane.
 
Architex said:
I prefer faster greens but it is also dependent on the course. My home course has several holes that are all but impossable when they start approaching 11. One in particular I had an uphill 25’ putt. I got the ball to 3 inches short of the hole and the ball rolled all the way behind where I was. It was insane.
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I love silly greens and don't have any issue with it being impossible to stop the ball by the hole on a downhill putt like some people might but not being able to stop the ball near the hole hole on an uphill putt shouldn't happen.
 
as for the article? Here we go again with the whats wrong with golf notion.

I mean none of the decline of golf is ever thought of as only being relative to a recent influx unlike any the sport had ever seen before. There are still more people playing golf than there was before the influx. And honestly were it not or the influx there would probably be even less playing golf now or about the same amount. Then there is the economy and availability of time (much of which is due to economics) as another contributing factors. And something else Ive mentioned many times is that no one mentions how the industry over expanded itself during the influx. Anyone who could tried to draw milk from the cash cow. New courses and new businesses popped up as though the influx were going to last forever. Then as the influx began to decline and the sport returned imo back to normalcy that over expansion left a void because there were no longer as many people playing golf to fill it up. And that otherwise wouldn't have ever existed yet that void makes the problem (which imo really isn't one) seem a whole lot worse than it actually is. Again, all relative to and based on a time when the sport exploded.

So now everyone wants to try to fix the very same sport that been around basically the same way for like ever. There was never anything wrong with it during the influx but now all a sudden there is something wrong with it? The greens and pace where somehow different during the influx? That logic make no sense and imo is misguided.

Pace imo is an issue for only those who play the game and not something most who don't are even aware of. Most people are not going to flock to golf courses just because we eliminate the longer rounds of golf when and where that is an issue. That issue is only one among those already playing. As said, it was no different during the influx. Greens and paces were the same then and yet many more played the game anyway. So why is that some how any answer now? Reason is that its actually not.

Golf is a process and its one in which requires time, money, and efforts, and fwiw (very important) a general interest in taking it up in the first place. People imo have to stop trying to think they need to somehow fix the game which never had anything wrong with it in the past as though some change is going to bring back some influx. Its not fair imo to conclude golf is in trouble while much of that only comes from comparing things to an out of the norm influx.

As for pace (which again imo is only an issue among those already playing) and greens issues? Finish lag puts, stop picking up after every putt, putt out of turn, line up while others are going and imo once one begins to putt then they should just putt out entirely and even regardless of stepping on lines. Get over yourselves as no one is on tour so just putt and move on.

Sorry, but I just get tired of so many constantly trying to find things to fix that were the same when so many more played during the influx regardless as though its an answer to its downside. Honestly it gets annoying.
 
We need a full time mod just to make EVERY Rollin post into cliff notes.

Sent from my ZTE A2017U using Tapatalk
 
take up speed reading. What can I say? I like to write in detail and explain thoughts as clearly as I can. Its how my brain works. No one forces anyone to read them.
 
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Eh I don't think most public courses have that fast of greens honestly. Your more difficult, serious ones aren't the ones weekend hackers are going to so why is it a concern?

IMO the only issue is when weekend hackers or inexperienced players go to these. As a HS golf coach these big invites can be brutal, bad teams on tough courses bog play down terribly bc you've got kids Four putting and ****. Last year we were shot 334 in a tourney, our 5 kids were paired with schools who went 323, 341, 411. That one bad team totally clogged the other three kids up, made for a long long day
 
Speed of greens alone isn't the issue (and I can't read the article as apparently it isn't a secure page according to our IT filter), it is when the undulations and pin positions combine to make putting unfair that causes the problems

I have no issue with fast greens (prefer them over slower greens), but when a greenkeeper places a pin on a crown or the edge of a slope making it almost impossible to get the ball near the hole due to the speed of the green is when I have issues with what they have done

A course I have played a few times has a hole where it you are above the hole you might as well pick your ball up and throw it down about 10 yards off the green because you have almost no chance to actually hole it, and if you are below the hole it is a 50/50 chance that your ball will stay on the green if you don't sink the putt as it will come back to you....
 
belmontcc15 said:
Eh I don't think most public courses have that fast of greens honestly. Your more difficult, serious ones aren't the ones weekend hackers are going to so why is it a concern?
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I agree but its a concern only because people keep insisting they need to come up with ways to fix the game which was exactly the same during the influx due to the fact that the very same influx has simply and naturally deteriorated.
 
belmontcc15 said:
Eh I don't think most public courses have that fast of greens honestly. Your more difficult, serious ones aren't the ones weekend hackers are going to so why is it a concern?

IMO the only issue is when weekend hackers or inexperienced players go to these. As a HS golf coach these big invites can be brutal, bad teams on tough courses bog play down terribly bc you've got kids Four putting and ****. Last year we were shot 334 in a tourney, our 5 kids were paired with schools who went 323, 341, 411. That one bad team totally clogged the other three kids up, made for a long long day
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Yeah honestly public courses don't have fast greens around most of the country once you take out the destination courses and the Bethpage/Torrey(they honestly weren't even that fast the last time I played there. Firm they were though.) type courses.
 
Just read it finally, not surprising at all (but was cool to see their stats behind it).
 
mikedean441 said:
Just read it finally, not surprising at all (but was cool to see their stats behind it).
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Id like to see stats for how much time is wasted on the greens (even non fast ones) by players who are far too meticulous , pick up everything, not ready and don't get ready while others are going, cant putt out of turn, refuse to finish , etc etc...
I'll bet my house that these things would (as for speeding up play) make fast greens seem like the last problem in the world we actually have.
Oh and BTW after we do that to help pace along, we would see an influx to the sport like we never seen before. Yea right! On a cold day in hell maybe.
 
rollin said:
Id like to see stats for how much time is wasted on the greens (even non fast ones) by players who are far too meticulous , pick up everything, not ready and don't get ready while others are going, cant putt out of turn, refuse to finish , etc etc...
I'll bet my house that these things would (as for speeding up play) make fast greens seem like the last problem in the world we actually have.
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Correct these and it will take care of itself. If we teach ready golf pace of play will increase. Slowing down greens is dumb
 
I would be happy if every public course rolled everyday as well as cutting.
 
rollin said:
Sorry, but I just get tired of so many constantly trying to find things to fix that were the same when so many more played during the influx regardless as though its an answer to its downside. Honestly it gets annoying.
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That article was good for what's a preference for some, but as a way to "fix" golf I agree with you. There is nothing wrong with golf overall. It's been the same for 100+ years with tweaks on the rules now and then.

I think the 2019 rules changes were about due, but this is just part of the game anyway, they've been tweaking rules forever. I remember when you couldn't mark your ball and you had to finish out the hole.

But again, fix golf? Yeah, it's not broken, it's supposed to be hard and fun. If it was "easy" I promise "less" people would play, not more. Look at Tennis vs Badminton. Way more people play tennis because it's a challenge. Badminton is the same thing almost but way easy, less challenge.

As for pace of play, green speeds is our least biggest worry. My home course rolls like a 2 on the metre and it's plenty slow there. Mostly people looking for balls in the woods because they don't understand what the red stakes are for.
 
ChristopherKee said:
That article was good for what's a preference for some, but as a way to "fix" golf I agree with you. There is nothing wrong with golf overall. It's been the same for 100+ years with tweaks on the rules now and then.

I think the 2019 rules changes were about due, but this is just part of the game anyway, they've been tweaking rules forever. I remember when you couldn't mark your ball and you had to finish out the hole.

But again, fix golf? Yeah, it's not broken, it's supposed to be hard and fun. If it was "easy" I promise "less" people would play, not more. Look at Tennis vs Badminton. Way more people play tennis because it's a challenge. Badminton is the same thing almost but way easy, less challenge.

As for pace of play, green speeds is our least biggest worry. My home course rolls like a 2 on the metre and it's plenty slow there. Mostly people looking for balls in the woods because they don't understand what the red stakes are for.
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You think badminton is less of a challenge than tennis? Completely the opposite in my eyes after playing both (and playing badminton to a pretty decent level)

Just because there are red stakes doesn't mean that you can't look for your ball, it just signifies it is a hazard and there may be a playable lie rather than having to take a penalty drop, but you also need to determine where the ball is to be able to then take a drop
 
TheDoctor said:
You think badminton is less of a challenge than tennis? Completely the opposite in my eyes after playing both (and playing badminton to a pretty decent level)

Just because there are red stakes doesn't mean that you can't look for your ball, it just signifies it is a hazard and there may be a playable lie rather than having to take a penalty drop, but you also need to determine where the ball is to be able to then take a drop
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I'm standing firm on Badminton (for the recreational player) being easier =).

For the red stakes, it was more of a course specific statement to my home course. Once you hit it in the "red" you'll never find it but people look anyway because they honestly don't know the they can drop and still save par from where they are. I play 100+ rounds a year and partner with randoms so I tend to see the trend a lot of what, on my home course, causes slow play.

Top 5 would be.

1. Players looking for ball
2. Players not aware people are waiting on them
3. Players waiting for other players to hit before starting their preshot process
4. Players playing from the tips and not the proper tees
5. Bunkers
 
I used to play a lot of tennis and I am pretty sure I couldn't make it through a set with a player who ran me without puking. I feel like I could manage not to throw up and die playing badminton.
 
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