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The 2nd Driver Experiment

SuperStroke
Ward I'm interested in how tee height as well as swing weight will play into stats. Going to be a fun follow along.


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Definitely something I have considered trying. I don't hit my 4w very often as my 3h isn't much shorter off the tee and certainly easier to hit off the deck.

I have an extra driver head and a couple weights I can throw in there to bring the swingweight up maybe I should loft it up to 12.5º and put the 3w shaft in there to see how it goes.
 
Are we looking for a greater percentage of fairways hit? Longer distances off the tee vs the 3W?
 
Well this will be interesting for sure!
 
Tadashi70 said:
Are we looking for a greater percentage of fairways hit? Longer distances off the tee vs the 3W?
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Accuracy and distance, basically is a 3w really viable anymore if you can't hit it well off the turf.
 
Looking forward to seeing the data and any on course pros/cons.
 
Looking forward to seeing your results Wardy. As you know, I have messed around with it a little but still not convinced it is the right play for me on my home course. I hit 3 wood off the deck more than off the tee. 5 wood plays more off the tee to set up approach distances than 3 wood does and the short driver puts me in the less than full swing distances on short par 4's like the 3 wood does. I much prefer, and see better results from, 90 - 100 yard approaches over 70 or so yard approaches.
 
I converted to this over 2 years ago and love it. I started playing a short driver in about 2012 and added the long driver in 2015. My home course has 4 - 5 holes I hit my shorter driver off the tee. Its 20 yards shorter than my driver and slightly longer than my 4w, but more forgiving. I've also set my short driver up with a draw bias were my long driver has a fade bias to give me some versatility. To help with swing weight I use a heavier shaft and went animal style on my GBB. I believe its around C8 up from C2 pre animal style.
 
I'm very intrigued. I almost exclusively hit the 3 wood off the tee (and not that great, but I'm very strong with driver) this could be a very nice change for me in the future. But I don't have a fancy driver head that I can put new shafts in to try it out yet.
 
MWard said:
Accuracy and distance, basically is a 3w really viable anymore if you can't hit it well off the turf.
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I understand the idea of the experiment but wouldn’t the solution be to learn how to hit it off the turf? I mean, if you can hit a 5w off the deck you should be able to hit a 3W.

You hit your driver well enough that some par 5s should be reachable with 3W. Is this no longer something you think about in your game?
 
KEV said:
Do you use yours off the fairway at all and if you do what have your results been?
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I do, but not often. Mixed results.

Tadashi70 said:
I understand the idea of the experiment but wouldn’t the solution be to learn how to hit it off the turf? I mean, if you can hit a 5w off the deck you should be able to hit a 3W.

You hit your driver well enough that some par 5s should be reachable with 3W. Is this no longer something you think about in your game?
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It’s always going to be a lower percentage shot. If Mward hits his 5 wood at 235 or so, should he really have a club in the bag that he would only use once every few rounds to really go for a par 5 in two on a low percentage shot vs a club that will raise forgiveness and distance (vs 3 wood) off the tee
 
JB said:
I do, but not often. Mixed results.



It’s always going to be a lower percentage shot. If Mward hits his 5 wood at 235 or so, should he really have a club in the bag that he would only use once every few rounds to really go for a par 5 in two on a low percentage shot vs a club that will raise forgiveness and distance (vs 3 wood) off the tee
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How much distance are we talking? If he hits his 3W well off the tee, why not learn to hit it off the deck. Seems like more than half the equation is complete. And I’m just thinking out loud, it’s the instructor in me.

If he hits the driver we’ll, why would he switch to a shorter driver? The confidence should be there to pull it any time unless yardage prevents that. It seems he will have a a club that is truly one dimensional with the 43” driver. Only uses it in short yardage situation with zero hope of every hitting off the deck vs a 3W that he’d have a greater chance of hitting off the deck. I mean his skill level would allow for a quick learn on off the deck shots.
 
This will be fun to follow. Good luck mward! Are you looking at a second driver head at all to try this with right now?
 
Tadashi70 said:
How much distance are we talking? If he hits his 3W well off the tee, why not learn to hit it off the deck. Seems like more than half the equation is complete. And I’m just thinking out loud, it’s the instructor in me.

If he hits the driver we’ll, why would he switch to a shorter driver? The confidence should be there to pull it any time unless yardage prevents that. It seems he will have a a club that is truly one dimensional with the 43” driver. Only uses it in short yardage situation with zero hope of every hitting off the deck vs a 3W that he’d have a greater chance of hitting off the deck. I mean his skill level would allow for a quick learn on off the deck shots.
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Honestly that is the same question as saying if you hit irons well, why not learn to play blades. Or you hit your 6 iron well, get rid of hybrids and learn to hit long irons.

Think mini driver but substantially more forgiving. You could say the same thing about this truly. You hit this better off the tee, why not learn to hit it off the deck? I understand its a different methodology, and change is not always that well received, but the modern 5 wood is very long, low spin and longer in length and lower in loft than in years past. The 3 wood off the deck is not a high percentage shot for even strong low handicap players in most cases.
 
MWard said:
Accuracy and distance, basically is a 3w really viable anymore if you can't hit it well off the turf.
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So your saying you can't hit 3w off the turf well, but you think you will hit a shorter driver better...off the deck?
 
jdtox said:
So your saying you can't hit 3w off the turf well, but you think you will hit a shorter driver better...off the deck?
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I think that is where people are getting confused. Ward hits his 5 wood off the deck and rarely if ever reaches for a 3 wood in that spot, because he, like most find it to be very low percentage. Instead going with the 5 wood (he hits it a long way) or choosing to lay up. What he will be doing is adding something for off the tee, where most use their 3 wood close to exclusively, that offers far more forgiveness and some would argue distance as well.
 
JB said:
I think that is where people are getting confused. Ward hits his 5 wood off the deck and rarely if ever reaches for a 3 wood in that spot, because he, like most find it to be very low percentage. Instead going with the 5 wood (he hits it a long way) or choosing to lay up. What he will be doing is adding something for off the tee, where most use their 3 wood close to exclusively, that offers far more forgiveness and some would argue distance as well.
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Gotcha ok that makes more sense.

I am one that loves my 3w from just about anywhere but find it nearly impossible to hit driver off the deck so that wasn't clicking with my mind.
 
Add another element to the experiment. Hit your long driver, hit it again but choke down, and finally pop in the short shaft. Compare the 3 drives. And then tell the group behind to relax. :act-up:

I just wonder if choking down is the same as a short driver.
 
The 2nd Driver Experiment

Not sure what he is gaining off the tee that he couldn’t from just gripping down a bit unless he is looking for a specific sw at the shorter length.

I am also not convinced in practice the larger head is always more forgiving in everyone’s hands. Scientifically it is of course but we all know multiple examples that can’t hit drivers to save their life but can hit fairway woods well. Is this just a case of shaft length or is there something mentally/physically holding them back when looking at the larger head.

For me if he hit his 5wood a long way not sure why he wouldn’t just double that as the safe tee club. Rarely are you trying to place a driver a specific difference and if with only 2 inches cut off he can control distance within 5 yards I would be super impressed. Will be curious how this works for wardy, for me I couldn’t get over what I would perceive as a wasted spot in the bag but for some it will be a viable solution to their needs I think.


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JB said:
I think that is where people are getting confused. Ward hits his 5 wood off the deck and rarely if ever reaches for a 3 wood in that spot, because he, like most find it to be very low percentage. Instead going with the 5 wood (he hits it a long way) or choosing to lay up. What he will be doing is adding something for off the tee, where most use their 3 wood close to exclusively, that offers far more forgiveness and some would argue distance as well.
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let me preface by saying i’ve seen this action with your game and your setup, and it’s pretty freaking cool. so i have definitely seen it work.

but the above seems to be talking about two different things. if he hits 5w well off the deck (and he absolutely does), and he hits his 3w exclusively off the tee, it seems the only thing we are gaining is a slightly more forgiving option off the tee.

based on how good his wedge game is, i don’t understand why he needs to hit anything farther off the deck than the 5w. the only reason i can see doing this is if he is really inconsistent with 3w off the tee.

although i’ve seen it in play with your game, i’m not sure i could ever do this. the larger profile behind the ball would really wreak havoc with my brain. i also wonder whether my lower launch and lower spin tendencies would make this setup a nonstarter.


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c.a.eleric said:
let me preface by saying i’ve seen this action with your game and your setup, and it’s pretty freaking cool. so i have definitely seen it work.

but the above seems to be talking about two different things. if he hits 5w well off the deck (and he absolutely does), and he hits his 3w exclusively off the tee, it seems the only thing we are gaining is a slightly more forgiving option off the tee.

based on how good his wedge game is, i don’t understand why he needs to hit anything farther off the deck than the 5w. the only reason i can see doing this is if he is really inconsistent with 3w off the tee.

although i’ve seen it in play with your game, i’m not sure i could ever do this. the larger profile behind the ball would really wreak havoc with my brain. i also wonder whether my lower launch and lower spin tendencies would make this setup a nonstarter.


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Its not a slightly more forgiving option though. Larger face, lower CG, further back CG, higher MOI, thinner face. All things that produce more forgiveness and speed off a fw wood.
Now whether or not someone can look at something is entirely up to them, but from a pure tech stand point, it does all of those things and then some.

Then add all of the adjustment options available in the driver that just are not there to fine tune in the fairway wood. The mind is both a wonderful thing and a powerful enemy at times.
 
I'm looking forward to Wardy's thoughts on this one. After watching you hit that XXIO "Thriver" up here a few weeks back, I might be sold on that setup.

I actually have been really enjoying the 3W I have off the deck so it kind of changes things, but I'm interested to see when I get on a monitor if I'm really hitting it all that further than the 5. If not, this would be something to think of giving a shot with a higher lofted driver head.
 
mpeterson said:
I'm looking forward to Wardy's thoughts on this one. After watching you hit that XXIO "Thriver" up here a few weeks back, I might be sold on that setup.

I actually have been really enjoying the 3W I have off the deck so it kind of changes things, but I'm interested to see when I get on a monitor if I'm really hitting it all that further than the 5. If not, this would be something to think of giving a shot with a higher lofted driver head.
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That is one of my big takeaways. THe 3 and 5w spots in the bag are rarely ever used as pin point accuracy down to 2-3 yards. So if one is carrying both, they could probably get away with splitting the difference and adding a different club that they could use as a major benefit.
 
So are we creating a lager SLDR Mini Driver? A club that could be used off the Tee and off the deck?
I know this was a fad, however I just loved mine when my driver swing went "Wonky"
Could get more that 3W distance off the Tee and off the deck.
 
I don’t expect to use this combo off the ground more than one time in testing, for what it’s worth. The conversation that started it all was on a very tight driving hole, I hit three wood and he did a little in the neck of the club and it didn’t go quite where I wanted it or far.

Immediate question that was asked was if you would hit a shorter driver of the tee, and hit it in the same place on the club, would you have gotten more out of it? Well let’s find out
 
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