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one of the biggest reasons golf is so hard....

Hamfist said:
Golf is hard because we aren't designed to do it naturally. Consider the evolution of humans, we are designed to roam around foraging for food, throwing stuff at potential food, running from things that want to make us food.

Nowhere in evolution were we required to hit a high cut to a tucked pin for survival of the species.

So, we do this wierd, unnatural motion and wonder why we can't do it well.

Just my thoughts.
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Ah, but what a world it would be if that's how we evolved.
 
Golf is hard. It's funny and interesting that something we've been playing for a hundred years and yet nobody has it figured out. Many have tried and failed to come up with an answer that we found simple and easy.

I am in no hurry to get better at this game, I actually find figuring out my swing and other parts of the game as much fun as playing golf itself. It's not a discredit to those people who teach golf for a living, who make clubs and monitors to help the average hacker, and the golfer who wishes to seek help from a teaching pro.

I'm having a blast being a golfer who has a handicap in the low tween or high teens, and I admit I haven't figured out everything about my swing yet, let alone other people's swings.

Different strokes for different folks. Just like the golf swing itself. That's why golf is so hard.

I guess that's also why we are in this forum, because we're all looking for things that will make us play better.
 
To be honest, golf isn't that complicated. It isn't that hard. It takes two things to play decent golf: a moderate amount of athletic ability; and time.

Time: time necessary to perform a certain number of correct repetitions of the golf swing so that you develop a procedural memory.

There's all this information on the internet. Most of it is confusing. Some of it is accurate. The analyses you see on The Golf Channel are horrible as a rule.

For a swing change it takes about 1500 balls to make it permanent. This is why swing changes take a long time. So if I need to work on my driver, getting it straighter, and I know I have a flaw, I may have to hit 60 balls a session with my driver and hit them well. This is why I have a "range beater". It's really a "better player driver", just that the tech is older. And it's a little heavier than my gaming driver so I can feel where the club head is. It will get better.

With teaching pros you need to find one with whom you work well with, and one whom you trust. I have a fairly interesting swing that's home grown, but it's the swing that works for me. It's a very simple swing, or is supposed to be. A couple pros tried to change it. Another worked with it and tweaked it. I'm a visual learner and video helps me more than numbers. Take a video and show me what I'm doing.
 
mr.hicksta said:
There are a ton of good posts in here, but personally I think golf is difficult because of unrealistic expectations. Many golfers take in so much information and expect that by simply reading/watching/listening it should immediately translate to the course. The reality though, is that for an actual change to take place it takes HOURS of practice. If all it took was watching a You Tube video to get rid of a slice then we'd all be touring pros. I think understanding the path to improvement is truly a grind that requires patience helps, but a lot of golfers aren't willing to put in the work required and end up setting themselves up for failure in the long run. To me, golf is hard because many people expect to improve much faster than they actually will.
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Sure there are indeed plenty who stand in their own way (tons of people) when it comes to efforts towards improvement. And for some others it can be life itself that gets in the way too. But there are indeed also so very many (tons of people as well) who do put the time, money and efforts in and still don't significantly improve too much better than they were before. We cant all imo just get so very much better at golf simply because we may practice and make good efforts. There are just too many people who do this. If this were true there would be a much higher percentage of single digit cappers and even the tour itself would have a much larger pool imo. There would probably also be so many more people breaking 90 more regularly than there currently is. Golf is very hard even besides the obvious reasons why many don't improve much.
 
InTheRough said:
To be honest, golf isn't that complicated. It isn't that hard. It takes two things to play decent golf: a moderate amount of athletic ability; and time.

Time: time necessary to perform a certain number of correct repetitions of the golf swing so that you develop a procedural memory.

There's all this information on the internet. Most of it is confusing. Some of it is accurate. The analyses you see on The Golf Channel are horrible as a rule.

For a swing change it takes about 1500 balls to make it permanent. This is why swing changes take a long time. So if I need to work on my driver, getting it straighter, and I know I have a flaw, I may have to hit 60 balls a session with my driver and hit them well. This is why I have a "range beater". It's really a "better player driver", just that the tech is older. And it's a little heavier than my gaming driver so I can feel where the club head is. It will get better.

With teaching pros you need to find one with whom you work well with, and one whom you trust. I have a fairly interesting swing that's home grown, but it's the swing that works for me. It's a very simple swing, or is supposed to be. A couple pros tried to change it. Another worked with it and tweaked it. I'm a visual learner and video helps me more than numbers. Take a video and show me what I'm doing.
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Golf is not just about swinging the club. There are also chips and pitches and uphill, downhill lies and conditions and imperfections and a million different scenarios requiring different types of shots. each and every one of them has this same over abundance of advice. A conglomeration of often messy advice expect to only to the individual giving it. I'm not one to get too caught up in taking too much different advice. I try to pick out the common pieces even within the different given advice but many times it can as said be contradicting.

Imo to say golf isn't that hard is a big understatement. As for complicated? I suppose it can be as complicated as one choses to make it on him/herself. But hard. it certainly is.

As for athleticism? we've had these discussions before and I am firmly on the side that one being athletic does not make one better at golf. I know plenty who golf and Plenty of athletic people cannot golf well at all. And plenty people who are not athletic at all yet can golf really well. Golf is unlike other sports as for agility and athleticism. I was always athletic, football, hockey, even gymnastics and none of that has ever translated to making me any better at golf than I am. yet I know people who were never athletic and can play the pants off me with half the amount of practice. Sorry but athleticism is not a prerequisite to being any better at golf. For an exaggerated example - just look at Michael Jordan....spent enormous amount of time and money trying to be a pro and cant do it.
 
rollin said:
Sure there are indeed plenty who stand in their own way (tons of people) when it comes to efforts towards improvement. And for some others it can be life itself that gets in the way too. But there are indeed also so very many (tons of people as well) who do put the time, money and efforts in and still don't significantly improve too much better than they were before. We cant all imo just get so very much better at golf simply because we may practice and make good efforts. There are just too many people who do this. If this were true there would be a much higher percentage of single digit cappers and even the tour itself would have a much larger pool imo. There would probably also be so many more people breaking 90 more regularly than there currently is. Golf is very hard even besides the obvious reasons why many don't improve much.
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Oh believe me, I know plenty about life getting in the way. I got to my last duty station in April 2013, and after around September of the same year I didn't pick up a club until I got to Monterey in September of this year! I think it's safe to say many people on this forum have had life interfere with golf at one time or another. And as far as time, from my experience when combined with lessons, practice helps reinforce what you learn. I just think that too many people look for the quick fix or, as I mentioned in my post, think they can watch an instructional video, barely practice it and apply the change to their game. My answer certainly simplified the question, but I really think many people underestimate what it really takes to improve. Maybe one day, when people are learning golf Matrix style the instant gratification will be there, but until then it's all about the grind and making incremental improvements. At least that's how I look at it :D
 
mr.hicksta said:
Oh believe me, I know plenty about life getting in the way. I got to my last duty station in April 2013, and after around September of the same year I didn't pick up a club until I got to Monterey in September of this year! I think it's safe to say many people on this forum have had life interfere with golf at one time or another. And as far as time, from my experience when combined with lessons, practice helps reinforce what you learn. I just think that too many people look for the quick fix or, as I mentioned in my post, think they can watch an instructional video, barely practice it and apply the change to their game. My answer certainly simplified the question, but I really think many people underestimate what it really takes to improve. Maybe one day, when people are learning golf Matrix style the instant gratification will be there, but until then it's all about the grind and making incremental improvements. At least that's how I look at it :D
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Don't get mew wrong. Of course plenty people improve at the game via advice form any avenues too. But over all golf is hard and I don't think we can deny that (at least most of us) and imo the conflicting, often different , and even sometimes contradicting advice just works to prove that point.
 
Golf is hard because people don't bother to get lessons. They feel it's an easy game they can conquer through videos or reading. Golf is hard because people don't respect the amount of coordination needed to play. Yes there are different swing theories and that's fine. If you just learned in theory, your golfing life would be fine. If people committed to on thought on the swing, they would play much better and there by learn more about the game. Golf is only as hard as you want it to be.
 
Lack of lessons, practicing and understanding the game. Can't get better if you don't do any of the above and therefore the game is hard.
 
Tadashi70 said:
Golf is hard because people don't bother to get lessons. They feel it's an easy game they can conquer through videos or reading. Golf is hard because people don't respect the amount of coordination needed to play. Yes there are different swing theories and that's fine. If you just learned in theory, your golfing life would be fine. If people committed to on thought on the swing, they would play much better and there by learn more about the game. Golf is only as hard as you want it to be.
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And this = "Golf is hard because people don't respect the amount of coordination needed to play." is what imo actually says golf is hard.
With all the tons of people that do not get or understand whats involved there are still so very many people who do respect all that is needed, who get lessons and many of them, who do commit to the swing thoughts. And yet struggle very much to get to a higher place and also then maintain that place. The amount of coordination and not only that but the ability to then repeat that coordination is not at all an easy thing.

I believe that coordination within a task is an ability but I also think repeating that coordination (or being consistent with it) is also a whole other separate ability. And that ability is about the "only" one imo that is natural for us in golf. However, that natural ability (the ability to be repetitive and consistent) is one in which we all have different amounts of. No matter the practice, understandings, thoughts, and efforts there is only so much repetitive ability in each person before they falter. One can respect the amount of coordination all they want and then do all the things and have all the thoughts in line..... but repeating it is only possible to a certain point for each individual imo.

So sure, there are many people who do make golf harder by not respecting the coordination and all that is required but imo a ton do and golf is not hard because people don't respect the coordination but its hard because it not only requires coordination's but also requires repetitive coordination's and that is something we all naturally posses different amounts of. One can imo only improve on that part only so much. Its why imo we may take hypothetically 100 people and have them all do the same exact efforts, practice, and all with the same mental understanding and yet only a percentage will advance and another percentage will advance even further and faster and some will only advance a small amount as well.

But besides all this stuff, its not just about our basic swing but also is about chipping, putting, irons, woods, recovery, a million different touchy feely things, different lies and imperfections and stances...etc, etc....and all (every one) each with their own required techniques and routines and understanding. And all are taught, and all discussed and all may have different advice given by different peoples opinions. Its all a lot of stuff and can often be all over the map and its not easy. I don't feel golf is only as hard as one wants it to be. I agree and think people can be guilty of making it harder than it has to be for themselves but it still is indeed hard.
 
rollin said:
And this = "Golf is hard because people don't respect the amount of coordination needed to play." is what imo actually says golf is hard.
With all the tons of people that do not get or understand whats involved there are still so very many people who do respect all that is needed, who get lessons and many of them, who do commit to the swing thoughts. And yet struggle very much to get to a higher place and also then maintain that place. The amount of coordination and not only that but the ability to then repeat that coordination is not at all an easy thing.

I believe that coordination within a task is an ability but I also think repeating that coordination (or being consistent with it) is also a whole other separate ability. And that ability is about the "only" one imo that is natural for us in golf. However, that natural ability (the ability to be repetitive and consistent) is one in which we all have different amounts of. No matter the practice, understandings, thoughts, and efforts there is only so much repetitive ability in each person before they falter. One can respect the amount of coordination all they want and then do all the things and have all the thoughts in line..... but repeating it is only possible to a certain point for each individual imo.

So sure, there are many people who do make golf harder by not respecting the coordination and all that is required but imo a ton do and golf is not hard because people don't respect the coordination but its hard because it not only requires coordination's but also requires repetitive coordination's and that is something we all naturally posses different amounts of. One can imo only improve on that part only so much. Its why imo we may take hypothetically 100 people and have them all do the same exact efforts, practice, and all with the same mental understanding and yet only a percentage will advance and another percentage will advance even further and faster and some will only advance a small amount as well.

But besides all this stuff, its not just about our basic swing but also is about chipping, putting, irons, woods, recovery, a million different touchy feely things, different lies and imperfections and stances...etc, etc....and all (every one) each with their own required techniques and routines and understanding. And all are taught, and all discussed and all may have different advice given by different peoples opinions. Its all a lot of stuff and can often be all over the map and its not easy. I don't feel golf is only as hard as one wants it to be. I agree and think people can be guilty of making it harder than it has to be for themselves but it still is indeed hard.
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Not every golfer is meant to be good. But most feel like they should be better or can get better, that is just not the case. Searching for that illusory carrot is what drives the golf industry. And these are the people that take lessons. I feel people over think the game, hell they over think most things they make most things more complex them need be.
 
Golf is hard, and there are some people who simply can't swing a golf club correctly due to minor things like dexterity. That's not to say that those people can't improve and get better over time though. I've always thought of golf as the ultimate sport, and I've said that in the past and people have laughed. Think about it though. By the worlds standards, I'm not ever going to be in the level of a Professional Sports athlete, and that's fine. I'm not a very big guy. 5' 7" and around 170 pounds. But then there's golf, where it doesn't matter how big you are! All that matter is, can you make the move needed to hit the ball consistently? I'm an overall athletic person, I'm an average athlete at best. I'm never going to play in the NFL, MLB or NBA, but you know what? I can sure beat a LOT of those athletes on the golf course. I'll never forget working the day we had a celebrity golf tournament at the course I was at. A LOT of the Royals, Chiefs players were there, a lot of the big names with million dollar contracts. Guess what they were all buying? The cheapest balls on the shelf. Why? Because even though they are gifted professional athletes in their own right, a LOT of them don't have capability to make the correct moves to play golf. They couldn't play golf. They can hit a 100 MPH fastball, and run the 40 in 4.2 seconds, but they couldn't hit a white ball straight down a 50 yard wide fairway.

You want to improve, take lessons for a Class A Teaching Pro. You want some solid tips? Ask Freddie here on the forums. There are others who have some background, myself included, but without someone looking over your shoulder and helping you work towards that goal, your odds of improving aren't as strong. It's not because of your motivation or lack of desire to improve either. Our own minds and body's don't like change, because it feels weird and the golf swing IS weird! Most people don't like to play worse, but sometimes the change you need feels weird and you'll play worse until you get use to the change. As much as that sounds counterproductive, it's not. Like I asked some of the people I've taught in the past, are you willing to possible play a little worse for a bit, to then surpass that by a lot? Because the change you need is going to feel weird and it's going to take some time to feel right.

Golf is hard, change is not always fun, but personal bests are a great feeling. Are you ready?
 
Tadashi70 said:
Not every golfer is meant to be good. But most feel like they should be better or can get better, that is just not the case. Searching for that illusory carrot is what drives the golf industry. And these are the people that take lessons. I feel people over think the game, hell they over think most things they make most things more complex them need be.
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I could agree with all that. people often get in their own way. Sure, not everyone was meant to be good or get too much better. Sometimes their own doing and other times just the nature of the beast. As for the illusory carrot? I've said in past threads that golf is like an addiction (or perhaps better said - is addicting) and just like an addiction it means chasing/searching a high that doesn't exist. Even given the right tools and mindset we cant all be good at golf. It is what it is. Although "good" is of course only relative.
 
rollin said:
I could agree with all that. people often get in their own way. Sure, not everyone was meant to be good or get too much better. Sometimes their own doing and other times just the nature of the beast. As for the illusory carrot? I've said in past threads that golf is like an addiction (or perhaps better said - is addicting) and just like an addiction it means chasing/searching a high that doesn't exist. Even given the right tools and mindset we cant all be good at golf. It is what it is. Although "good" is of course only relative.
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This is a very difficult game but I believe a person with average athletic ability can learn to shoot in the low to mid 80's.

The strange and somewhat sad thing to watch now that I am 50 is how many of my buddies have let their flexibility and fitness slip to a point where it's really affecting their golf. Their bodies no longer let them get into the same coiled position from their 30's or 40's which means loss of distance and increasing handicaps. Many just don't care enough about their scores to put in the time necessary to stay flexible.
 
tahoebum said:
This is a very difficult game but I believe a person with average athletic ability can learn to shoot in the low to mid 80's.

The strange and somewhat sad thing to watch now that I am 50 is how many of my buddies have let their flexibility and fitness slip to a point where it's really affecting their golf. Their bodies no longer let them get into the same coiled position from their 30's or 40's which means loss of distance and increasing handicaps. Many just don't care enough about their scores to put in the time necessary to stay flexible.
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Yes for shooting mid 80's but not necessarily staying there often enough and not everyone imo can definitely do that but only in his best rare performance. But scores in themselves are not all as telling as we think. An 89 at one course can be fairly equivalent to an 85 at another and yet 93 at some other one. The one thing that does happen with age (besides the negatives) that is actually a positive is that we also get smarter or wiser. The more years we play the more we (in not all but in many cases) learn how to manage a better game for better scores. A lot of that can end up actually being more beneficial than the negatives are a detriment.
 
Perhaps, its because the hole is too small. I don't know how many times I've said--darn, if that hole had been just a half an inch bigger.
 
Golf is also hard because a pro is telling you what to do and you think you're doing it, but you're not doing it at all. After a few months (or days) of "doing what he told you" and it not working, many people just give up.

I've played golf for more than 40 years and many, many golf pros have told me to swing more from the inside. At various points in my career I've been convinced I was swinging more from the inside, but never saw much change. Finally, I've now felt what it feels like to swing from the inside and man, what a difference.

If pros had a way to allow you to experience the feelings they feel, it'd be a whole lot easier for us hackers to learn to make real improvements.
 
UVaWahoo said:
Perhaps, its because the hole is too small. I don't know how many times I've said--darn, if that hole had been just a half an inch bigger.
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yes.....I'd then be crushing 285 yrd drives down the middle and striking wonderful irons all day long for sure.
 
rollin said:
Because there is no set correct way for a lot of things I believe that shows us a much greater difficulty in being successful at it.
One almost has to invent his/her own way or uniqueness to be more successful at a given task.

The whole thing imo works towards indicating to us just how hard the game is.
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OK the game is hard, so what?
The harder it is the more rewarding success is.
As for a "set correct way for a lot of things" ~ that is irrelevant.
Why, because it is not how you do it, it is what you achieve that counts.
A birdie is a birdie no matter you swing like Ernie Els or Jim Furyk.
Yes, golf is hard but it is still the best game there is.
 
tahoebum said:
This is a very difficult game but I believe a person with average athletic ability can learn to shoot in the low to mid 80's.

The strange and somewhat sad thing to watch now that I am 50 is how many of my buddies have let their flexibility and fitness slip to a point where it's really affecting their golf. Their bodies no longer let them get into the same coiled position from their 30's or 40's which means loss of distance and increasing handicaps. Many just don't care enough about their scores to put in the time necessary to stay flexible.
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I would have to agree with this. I still feel like I have plenty of room to improve, and I shoot in this range when I have a good round. Most of the guys I've seen with decent athletic ability and some experience who aren't able to crack the 80's are letting something get in the way - whether it's their head game, they haven't learned the fundamentals, or whatever.

Admittedly, I'm not consistently there yet either, but I know it's there for the taking.
 
I blame par or better yet players who have no business attempting to score a par yet still do.
 
smschulz said:
OK the game is hard, so what?
The harder it is the more rewarding success is.
As for a "set correct way for a lot of things" ~ that is irrelevant.
Why, because it is not how you do it, it is what you achieve that counts.
A birdie is a birdie no matter you swing like Ernie Els or Jim Furyk.
Yes, golf is hard but it is still the best game there is.
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As for the ....."so what" when it comes to the game being hard? the purpose of the thread was to discuss that fact. Doesn't really mean much but was/is an interesting discussion. Not trying to put the game down or insult it or anything. Just simply discussing it. If anyone is unhappy with playing golf they don't have to play it. The fact that its hard or discussing/debating that its hard doesn't imply we are not happy about being able to play it and enjoy it. Think your taking the intent of the thread the wrong way. If I were miserable about it I wouldn't be playing it. Its just a discussion is all. and the term "best game there is" is only an individual opinion. Its certainly up there if not on top of one my favorite things to do.
 
I think golf is hard because of two reasons: some people don't respect the amount of time necessary to play the game at a decently proficient level; and the amount of coordination required to execute a consistent golf swing.

There are no quick fixes. The full swing takes a certain number of correct repetitions to learn. It takes a time to develop procedural memory. The full swing is the most difficult part of the game to learn.

The putting stroke is the easiest part of the game to learn. I did not say reading greens - this is different. I said the putting stroke. I recently changed putting strokes completely and it took all of 15 minutes to learn the new stroke with a completely new putter. Do I need to practice putting with it? Yes. But I've learned the stroke. The chances of me mishitting a ball are about nil.

Chipping is the second easiest.

This is why they tell us to divide practice time: 65% full swing; 25% short game (100 yds and in); 10% putting. Bunker work takes about 4 hours total practice to become proficient. A tune up once a week should help for maintenance.

So make your goals realistic. I think a person has to know their limitations. When they're playing a round a person will do best to play within themselves.... within their game. I know I'll probably never shoot in the 70s. If it happens it'll be an outlier round. I'll be very happy if I get to shoot in the mid-80s given how much I get to practice. Right now I shoot in the 90s.

I also think golf should be fun. If the pros enjoy hitting driver + 9 iron into greens, why shouldn't I? Tee it forward.
 
I akin learning the game to learning how to cook. If you know what you like and can cook decently, you can digest different instructions while still keeping in line with what you know works and what you can work on getting better at.

If you're completely clueless in the kitchen as well as certain aspects in golf, the hardest part is to trust someone with the instructions that will work for you. Ultimately it comes down to muscle memory and the only way to get there is repeated swing and practice with a purpose.

I don't see different instructions for golf as contradicting, they are just different ways to tell the same story, not every person tell the same story the same way, nor do the listener take away the same lessons, hence the varying levels of instructions. The more we learn about this game, for me, I believe the simpler it becomes.
 
Plin said:
I akin learning the game to learning how to cook. If you know what you like and can cook decently, you can digest different instructions while still keeping in line with what you know works and what you can work on getting better at.

If you're completely clueless in the kitchen as well as certain aspects in golf, the hardest part is to trust someone with the instructions that will work for you. Ultimately it comes down to muscle memory and the only way to get there is repeated swing and practice with a purpose.

I don't see different instructions for golf as contradicting, they are just different ways to tell the same story, not every person tell the same story the same way, nor do the listener take away the same lessons, hence the varying levels of instructions. The more we learn about this game, for me, I believe the simpler it becomes.
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But cooking is all about knowledge of how to do it. Golf is knowledge for not only how to do it but also then to physically do it and be able to then repeat that physical task. One can repeat a recipe the same way all the time but not true for the golf swing. One have a broken leg and still cook great, you cant do that with golf. We are imo all physically handicapped and limited when it comes to golf. at different levels of course but none the less all are handicapped. We are all only able to repeat the physical swing the same way only so many times before faltering. Finding the right one (for each of the required types shots we have to make) can be a needle in a haystack in itself and then if one does find the right one that works for each his/her different scenarios, they then need to repeat those again and again and again. The ability to repeat imo is our natural handicap. With practice , and understanding, we can improve on the percentage of successful repetitiveness but still we are all limited or handicapped to how many times we can do it before faltering.

Look at a much simpler coordinated task (vs golf) like hitting free-throws in B-ball. Far less going on with all the movements and coordination involved (vs hitting a golf ball) and is done from the same spot, same distance, same conditions all the time, and yet the best in the world are about only 80% while performing. We are all imo handicapped or limted to how many times we are capable to repeat our good swing even if one does manage to find it in the first place. The success of doing it ends (for all of us) after only so many attempts. All the knowledge one has and practice one may do and yet each person is still only going to repeat with consistency only so many times. lets forget for the moment those who do stand in their own way for any of the various reasons. Even without that stuff we still imo cant all do it successfully the same amount of times regardless of our efforts. People often don't like to hear this because it basically says that we can all only be only so good at golf but it imo is just reality.
 
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