We've launched the new forums! Read more here

How forgiveness impacts progress

SuperStroke
Status
Not open for further replies.
AG47 said:
That's why they get paid the big bucks.
Click to expand...
What's interesting, not a knock on you or refuting anything you've posted on the subject, when amateurs are involved, we need bladey irons with a ton if feedback and CG location that makes working the ball easier. But the players whose abilities are their livelihoods , they're good enough to get by with forgiveness and less workability.
 
To be honest, I think you're going to make the game less fun for yourself if you move to unforgiving clubs.
 
drp3434 said:
To be honest, I think you're going to make the game less fun for yourself if you move to unforgiving clubs.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's pretty much guaranteed. But the question is, will the move ultimately help me become a much better player? Not an easy decision to make.

AG47 said:
I definitely didn't start out as a natural. My first few years of playing I had a wicked slice that looked like it was gonna turn around and come back too me. I had a job at the time that allowed me to have plenty of time in the afternoons to practice so I set up an area at the house and started working on my short game. It seemed like the work just carried over into my longer clubs because eventually the slice was gone and my scores started to drop. I never took a lesson, just watched videos and read Golf articles.

When I played the Tour Burners, early 2000s models and not the early 90s version, I hit the ball really high and had the tendency to hook and/or balloon the ball. When I switched over to the mixed set of Adams irons my spin rates came down and I got more of a penetrating trajectory. I would normally attribute that to the shafts but both sets had PX 6.5s.

I didn't feel like the blades were any harder to hit but I could definitely tell when I had a miss hit. My general miss is a thin shot off of the toe and one of those bad boys will really sting the hands off of a set of blades.
Click to expand...

Great info. Thanks for sharing. The real problem i have with my Eye 2's is lack of feedback. Unless i hit behind the ball or top it, i get almost no feedback. I have no idea if my typical miss is on the toe or heel, Etc. I pretty much hit irons 8 through SW consistently, but anything longer and i am sort of blind to the cause of mishits. For all i know i hit most of my shots on the heel, but the Eye 2's can handle it without issue.

I just wonder if this lack of feedback is allowing me to reinforce bad tendencies. And if getting less forgiving clubs somehow helps me become a better player, it might be worth the short term hit to enjoyment. Still uncertain.
 
Maybe try a club from the last 2 decades that allows for feedback and forgiveness. Its not a knock on the clubs, but going from an extreme to an extreme for someone just starting out is a terrible idea. The idea that feedback is not present in larger clubs is just not accurate.

Now if you are looking for validation on what you want to play, dont sweat it. Play what you want.
 
I played muscle or slight cavity back blades for 36 years before switching to Callaway XR Pro's this year. I will never go back.
 
robmypro said:
When i was growing up my dad gave me a cut down set of blades to learn with. They were hard to hit well, but to him they were easier to hit than the set he learned with. A set like that demanded precision, and it provided enough feedback so you knew you missed, and where. Fast forward to today and forgiveness is a main focus, from SGI right up to players clubs. I think this is awesome, as there is literally a perfect set for you, if you spend the time to find it. And for the casual player, forgiveness is a real game changer. They make the game more fun.

But what if you are that guy trying to be the best you can be? You are obsessed with this game. You dream of one day being a scratch player. Does a set of clubs with more forgiveness actually mask or reinforce poor tendencies, and poor precision? Here is another way of looking at it. If i went out and bought a players set of clubs last year, what would have happened? I think of a couple of possibilities...

1. I find out how brutally hard this game is, and then give up. Hey, there's always bowling.

2. I realize that i need lessons.

Now i think outcome #1 is far more likely for the typically person, but what if you've already caught golf fever? Doesn't it make some sense to get a set of unforgiving clubs, so you are almost forced into lessons? And since these clubs will provide the feedback you need to understand and correct your mistakes, the learning process is actually sped up?

Obviously each person needs to weigh a decision like this, and enjoyment is going to take a hit while you learn to hit them properly. But if you are driven to be the absolute best player you can be, does this not offer the potential to get better, faster, albeit with a lot more frustration along the way?

And let's say you did this. Would it not also be possible after a few years to switch to a more forgiving set, and enjoy much more success with them, as your mishits will be a lot less significant?

So my question is really this. Would playing a less forgiving set of clubs help you improve faster, ignoring the hit you will take in enjoyment? Because i may just be crazy enough to try this. LOL
Click to expand...

For me, it helped me improve quicker than a forgiving set. I grew up playing TM blades, I even had a 1 iron as young as 10 years old. I LEARNED to hit it through repetition which I think made me a better golfer than if I was always "bailed out" by a forgiving set. That's not wrong, it's just the way I was raised and the generation in which I was born into. I don't think that would appeal to today's "immediate satisfaction" mentality. My kids want to watch a show, we dial it up "On Demand". Want to go to the theater...we pull up show times on our smart phones. The internet generation was born with a certain level of expectancy and learning the hard way, or the long way, isn't in their field of view.

Full disclosure, I'm 33 years old but didn't have the internet until I was in middle school. Took lessons my whole childhood but never saw a video of my swing until I was 16.
 
robmypro said:
Great info. Thanks for sharing. The real problem i have with my Eye 2's is lack of feedback. Unless i hit behind the ball or top it, i get almost no feedback. I have no idea if my typical miss is on the toe or heel, Etc. I pretty much hit irons 8 through SW consistently, but anything longer and i am sort of blind to the cause of mishits. For all i know i hit most of my shots on the heel, but the Eye 2's can handle it without issue.

I just wonder if this lack of feedback is allowing me to reinforce bad tendencies. And if getting less forgiving clubs somehow helps me become a better player, it might be worth the short term hit to enjoyment. Still uncertain.
Click to expand...

Isn't the ball flight all the feedback you need? Why does feedback have to hurt?
 
robmypro said:
Yeah, that's pretty much guaranteed. But the question is, will the move ultimately help me become a much better player? Not an easy decision to make.



Great info. Thanks for sharing. The real problem i have with my Eye 2's is lack of feedback. Unless i hit behind the ball or top it, i get almost no feedback. I have no idea if my typical miss is on the toe or heel, Etc. I pretty much hit irons 8 through SW consistently, but anything longer and i am sort of blind to the cause of mishits. For all i know i hit most of my shots on the heel, but the Eye 2's can handle it without issue.

I just wonder if this lack of feedback is allowing me to reinforce bad tendencies. And if getting less forgiving clubs somehow helps me become a better player, it might be worth the short term hit to enjoyment. Still uncertain.
Click to expand...

Impact tape is your friend
 
I am sometimes confused with these type of discussions ... since ball fight is basically swing path and face angle at impact I do not see where the clubs are all that different in terms of workability for most recreational golfers. (They have to be built within USGA guidelines) I have tried blades and "game improvement" ... and my score did change based on the clubs.

This I have discovered ... a game improvement or blade set of irons, will not change my swing path or where my hands/club face are at impact.

I also have discovered there is no extra points what set of irons I used ...
 
kensisland said:
I am sometimes confused with these type of discussions ... since ball fight is basically swing path and face angle at impact I do not see where the clubs are all that different in terms of workability for most recreational golfers. (They have to be built within USGA guidelines) I have tried blades and "game improvement" ... and my score did change based on the clubs.

This I have discovered ... a game improvement or blade set of irons, will not change my swing path or where my hands/club face are at impact.

I also have discovered there is no extra points what set of irons I used ...
Click to expand...

There is no "degree of difficulty" in regards to the scorecard! Even the Russian and French judges agree.
 
Bad habits are bad habits. A bad swing is a bad swing, no matter what club is used.

A more forgiving option won't make you a "worse" golfer because you get bailed out in some way.

Learning to golf is ALL about repetition and practice. A blade isn't going to magically fix a swing flaw because you hurt after the swing. You'll just become upset and wonder why the h*ll you're even playing. I've been there and done it. As of today I'm right around a 4-6 hdcp and would not get a full set of blades. I may play blades from 8 iron down but have no good reason to explain that thought.

Enjoy the game with whatever you decide to use. If blades truly make the game more fun, play them. If a giant cavity back makes the game more fun, play them.
 
kensisland said:
I am sometimes confused with these type of discussions ... since ball fight is basically swing path and face angle at impact I do not see where the clubs are all that different in terms of workability for most recreational golfers. (They have to be built within USGA guidelines) I have tried blades and "game improvement" ... and my score did change based on the clubs.

This I have discovered ... a game improvement or blade set of irons, will not change my swing path or where my hands/club face are at impact.

I also have discovered there is no extra points what set of irons I used ...
Click to expand...

The differences come from the weighting and CG in the clubhead.
 
I think most people in my age range started out hitting blades since there really wasn't anything else to pick from at the time, My game has approved a great deal with technology and I have no problem with it at all. I do love the look of a nice MB iron and nothing feels better than hitting a MB in the middle of the face but I will improve much faster with forgiveness. If you want to get better just practice hitting the middle of the club doesn't matter which club as long as your hitting it pure. Doesn't hurt to practice with a MB either but I would not waste money an entire set just buy a 6 iron and practice with it.
 
I forgot you were using Eye 2's. Like JB said above, why not try a newer set of irons before jumping into such an extreme?
 
JB said:
Maybe try a club from the last 2 decades that allows for feedback and forgiveness. Its not a knock on the clubs, but going from an extreme to an extreme for someone just starting out is a terrible idea. The idea that feedback is not present in larger clubs is just not accurate.

Now if you are looking for validation on what you want to play, dont sweat it. Play what you want.
Click to expand...

Definitely not looking for validation to play anything, but maybe you are right. A more modern set, combined with a bit more feedback might be a good move. Maybe add a few practice clubs in that are a bit more challenging?

BeanieTX said:
For me, it helped me improve quicker than a forgiving set. I grew up playing TM blades, I even had a 1 iron as young as 10 years old. I LEARNED to hit it through repetition which I think made me a better golfer than if I was always "bailed out" by a forgiving set. That's not wrong, it's just the way I was raised and the generation in which I was born into. I don't think that would appeal to today's "immediate satisfaction" mentality. My kids want to watch a show, we dial it up "On Demand". Want to go to the theater...we pull up show times on our smart phones. The internet generation was born with a certain level of expectancy and learning the hard way, or the long way, isn't in their field of view.

Full disclosure, I'm 33 years old but didn't have the internet until I was in middle school. Took lessons my whole childhood but never saw a video of my swing until I was 16.
Click to expand...

I grew up hitting blades as well, and knew when i screwed up. Which was most of the time. It does force a certain level of concentration on you.

blugold said:
Isn't the ball flight all the feedback you need? Why does feedback have to hurt?
Click to expand...

That's a really good point, blu. I played yesterday and for the most part I have a very high ball flight. For the most part it goes where I aim, which is not always where I intended. But when I hit it really badly I just can't tell where I hit the ball. I am talking about really bad shots.

TexasHacker34 said:
Impact tape is your friend
Click to expand...

Good idea. I will definitely add that to the practice routine. Thanks.

blugold said:
There is no "degree of difficulty" in regards to the scorecard! Even the Russian and French judges agree.
Click to expand...

LOL

Bstubbs42 said:
Doesn't hurt to practice with a MB either but I would not waste money an entire set just buy a 6 iron and practice with it.
Click to expand...

That's a really good point. Would the 6i be the best club to get to do this sort of practice? And what about my driver and FW? If you were going to go down this road, what clubs might you target for practice only?

drp3434 said:
I forgot you were using Eye 2's. Like JB said above, why not try a newer set of irons before jumping into such an extreme?
Click to expand...

I totally agree. I am wondering if the best move might be to replace the Eye 2's with a modern set, combined with a few clubs for practice only? This way on the range I can learn to be a lot more precise. I have an AP2 712 3i, but I can't even hit the Eye 2 3i well.
 
Just for you info, I would classify my current ball flight as ballooning. The ball goes very high, and in Colorado that is not a good thing. The wind is a big factor. On almost every hole I need to play the wind and that means aiming to the right of the green to have any chance of not not ending up left of the green. I did have success with it to a degree yesterday, but there were a few times where I hit right and the wind died, and the ball stayed right. In defense of the Eye 2's, I will say they are easy to hit. The ball just gets up in the air easily. But I think I am ready for something else.

What modern set do you guys think might work best for me? I am fine with something used. And for the range, any recommendations for a few clubs to help me focus more on precision? I have an old Eye 2 driver and 3 wood. And I do mean wood. Might that force a bit more accuracy on me at the range?

Appreciate the help guys!
 
I sure as heck wouldn't rely on an internet forum to give me validation for the clubs I play or want to play. The broken record of you are cheating yourself by not playing the most forgiving clubs you can buy is pretty tiring. If you go and try clubs hit the ones that work for you, don't let others tell you you are wrong, especially if they have never played with you.

Pros aren't playing the most forgiving SGI clubs they have access to, and there's a reason for it. I doubt with the money they have on the line that it has anything to do with being macho, it has to do with what suits their game best. Yeah some play more forgiving players clubs, others play pure blades... it's all a matter of choice.
 
I don't have anything else to say that hasn't already been said. Play what you want, it's as simple as that.
 
tpluff said:
I don't have anything else to say that hasn't already been said. Play what you want, it's as simple as that.
Click to expand...

It really is that simple.
 
YetiLooper said:
The broken record of you are cheating yourself by not playing the most forgiving clubs you can buy is pretty tiring.
Click to expand...

Someone posted that? Perhaps some people are looking for people to start an argument with or something, because I have not seen anything posted like that anywhere on THP.
 
JB it's a pretty obvious tone that's implied time and again.
 
tpluff said:
I don't have anything else to say that hasn't already been said. Play what you want, it's as simple as that.
Click to expand...
Amen, brother

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
 
YetiLooper said:
JB it's a pretty obvious tone that's implied time and again.
Click to expand...

As stated, perhaps people are looking for tone, because frankly its not there. Nobody has said anything of hte sort and anybody that does is just not accurate. However with that said, people should play what they want when they want...Our job here is to make sure people have accurate information. How they choose it is and should be completely up to them.
 
I think some people take the job too seriously and have a tendency of forgetting that everyone is free to be wrong in their own opinions. Just my take as a newbie. Take it for what its worth.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top