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Any VW owners?

JRod said:
No doubt but it doesn't change the fact that Volkswagen intentionally circumvented the rules and sold MILLIONS upon millions of vehicles based on those lies.


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I thought the number was less than a half million? We are just talking about US sold cars here right.

I understand the same software was on all of their diesels, but the EURO regulations are so much easier on Diesels I can't believe they wouldn't have passed anyway. Even if they wouldn't that doesn't factor into the EPA fines.

I'm not defending what Volkswagen has done. It was wrong and it needs to be made right. But 18 billion in fines is ridiculous.

And it's sad it has come to this. I suspect we won't see any small diesels here again if the BMW and Mercedes rumors are true.
 
JRod said:
You keep saying this but they operate at such a small profit margin.

Just because you sell the most units doesn't mean you make the most money. The lawsuits and/or cost to retrofit 11 million vehicles is going to be astronomical .

Will they go away? Unlikely .

However it's going to be far worse than you seem to think .


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rtparty said:
With a very, very low profit margin. They could be fined upwards of $18B plus the billions more to fix all of this. Then throw in the class action lawsuits (there will be one, have no doubt about it) and it could be billions more upon that.

I don't think VW disappears all together but they're in deep you know what.

Edit: JRod was quicker than I
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I didn't say it would be easy, but they will survive that.

I, personally, do not think what they did is a big deal, but hey I am not making the rules
 
rtparty said:
With a very, very low profit margin. They could be fined upwards of $18B plus the billions more to fix all of this. Then throw in the class action lawsuits (there will be one, have no doubt about it) and it could be billions more upon that.

I don't think VW disappears all together but they're in deep you know what.

Edit: JRod was quicker than I
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There is already an attorney on this (surprising) Leiff Cabraser. Here is a snippet from the announcement of the class action lawsuit:

The lawsuits seek statutory penalties and compensatory, exemplary, and punitive damages for the class members -– all persons how purchased or leased the recalled VW and Audi diesel cars.
The lawsuits also seek several orders, including:

  1. An order compelling Volkswagen to buy back the Class Vehicles on fair and equitable terms; and
  2. A declaration that Volkswagen must disgorge for the benefit of the class members all or part of the ill-gotten profits received from the sale or lease of the recalled vehicles, and make full restitution to class members.

However this goes, it is going to be a big hit on VW and I doubt it will be sorted out anytime soon.
 
Wake said:
The EPA is going to fine VW billions for producing vehicles that get 40 mpg and produce no co2, I still think that's hilarious when GM wasn't even fined 1b for intentionally killing people.

Our government is awesome.
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Our government at its finest. They don't have to follow the laws they write but by hell, you better!
 
MPlefty said:
I didn't say it would be easy, but they will survive that.

I, personally, do not think what they did is a big deal, but hey I am not making the rules
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I agree with you. It's not a big deal to me but I don't like the EPA in any sense. Just another wasted government entity.

However, with the numbers being thrown around I don't see them staying competitive. That's my only point. Unless they have Apple amounts of cash sitting around?
 
I do not excuse what VW has done. They blatantly tried to cheat the system and I'm going to end up taking the hit from that. That being said, I find it VERY VERY interesting that the major diesel competitor for VW diesel cars is the GM Chevy Cruze. I also find it very interesting that for years Toyota has tried to bring over the Hilux diesel and has not been able to get it to meet emissions, however, GM, Dodge, and Ford all have diesel trucks that can meet the EPA regulations. The fact that NO OTHER FOREIGN car/truck company can meet the EPA Regs speaks volumes to me. GM and the rest of the big 3 best hope to God their diesel vehicles are up to snuff and meet the specs, because I can assure you the Europeans are going to test them to make sure they do!
 
ncsuhunter said:
I do not excuse what VW has done. They blatantly tried to cheat the system and I'm going to end up taking the hit from that. That being said, I find it VERY VERY interesting that the major diesel competitor for VW diesel cars is the GM Chevy Cruze. I also find it very interesting that for years Toyota has tried to bring over the Hilux diesel and has not been able to get it to meet emissions, however, GM, Dodge, and Ford all have diesel trucks that can meet the EPA regulations. The fact that NO OTHER FOREIGN car/truck company can meet the EPA Regs speaks volumes to me. GM and the rest of the big 3 best hope to God their diesel vehicles are up to snuff and meet the specs, because I can assure you the Europeans are going to test them to make sure they do!
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FWIW, Nissan has a diesel coming next year. The Titan XD will have a Cummins engine in it.

That's at least one foreign diesel to give the Big 3 a run.

But I totally agree with your post. Just showing that there is a foreign truck with a diesel.
 
Wake said:
My issue isnt with them establishing requirements, it's that they took a vehicle viewed as a clean option due to having no CO or CO2 emissions and getting great gas mileage and made it impossible to produce in a way that is competitive with gas options. They expect it to put off NOX and Particulates at a gas burner levels it's like expecting the gas vehicle to produce co2 at a diesel level, then wondering why gas motors have become so expensive. Eventually one of the companies that specialize in gas will probably cheat to try to compete.

And knowing the government I would fully believe this was done intentionally thanks to politicians being in the government's pockets.

I'm not excusing what VW did, just pointing out an issue I've been trumpeting for a while now.

It also bothers me a bit that GM intentionally allowed 100+ people to be killed thanks to an easy fix, and their ramifications will be far less than this situation, FAR less.
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The GM thing is abhorrent and FAR worse IMHO.

I get ya on the regulations being just enough over-the-top to line some wallets although it seems the oil industry has more to gain by lining in their favor not making it more difficult.
 
rtparty said:
I agree with you. It's not a big deal to me but I don't like the EPA in any sense. Just another wasted government entity.

However, with the numbers being thrown around I don't see them staying competitive. That's my only point. Unless they have Apple amounts of cash sitting around?
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I don't like the EPA or the amount of power they have been given without voter approval or even oversight. I think many of the government requirements on vehicles are unecessary but I do think raising emission standards has improved our quality of life. The carmakers got so good at this that the tree huggers had to get C0[SUB]2 [/SUB]declared a pollutant in order to continue their goal of getting rid of the "family car." I think fleet mileage standards do no good, just makes manufacturers build cars no one wants, but reducing car emissions has done a lot of good.

Whomever was involved in the decision at VW to deliberately cheat the requirements is Bernie Madoff kind of stupid. At some point someone was going to find out what was going on, what they were doing. I wonder if, like Madoff, they can be prosecuted for their actions or if they will simply take their golden parachutes and retire to a beach in the South of France. Their actions have harmed the stockholders, their employees and their customers all for seeking a, very temporary, better bottom line. I am very much a proponent of capitalism but when a company doesn't look at the long term affects of short term solutions it gives capitalism a bad name.
 
mancest said:
There is already an attorney on this (surprising) Leiff Cabraser. Here is a snippet from the announcement of the class action lawsuit:

The lawsuits seek statutory penalties and compensatory, exemplary, and punitive damages for the class members -– all persons how purchased or leased the recalled VW and Audi diesel cars.
The lawsuits also seek several orders, including:

  1. An order compelling Volkswagen to buy back the Class Vehicles on fair and equitable terms; and
  2. A declaration that Volkswagen must disgorge for the benefit of the class members all or part of the ill-gotten profits received from the sale or lease of the recalled vehicles, and make full restitution to class members.

However this goes, it is going to be a big hit on VW and I doubt it will be sorted out anytime soon.
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I'm waiting for this so I can finish my Subaru powered VW.
 
d_in_la said:
As someone who grew up in Los Angeles in the late 70's and early 80's I can tell you the emission standards have resulted in significant innovation and much better air. LA used to have Stage 1 smog alerts on regular basis. Since 1998, I think it is happened once. A few years ago I once read that they estimated the Clean Air Act saved over 150,000 premature deaths. IN ONE YEAR.

Say what you will about the EPA (probably corrupt) or Cali (we prolly crazy), but those standards have made a difference.

Bottom line, VW LIED. Straight up. Txchey didn't just lie about their US cars, they lied about their Euro-spec cars.

So next time you're in any big city, and you can breathe - Thank California. :)
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Stage 1 is for p*ssies, we had "stage 2 red flag do not go to school old people stay inside!" all the time when I was a wee troll in late 70's Corona, CA. You would go out and play and start coughing and smell like exhaust. Good times!

VW is fuxored but "F*ck it, this is going to be way too expensive, can you just make the thing fake the test?" is a totally management idea. lol blame those pesky engineers!
 
KeyserSoze said:
Stage 1 is for p*ssies, we had "stage 2 red flag do not go to school old people stay inside!" all the time when I was a wee troll in late 70's Corona, CA. You would go out and play and start coughing and smell like exhaust. Good times!

VW is fuxored but "F*ck it, this is going to be way too expensive, can you just make the thing fake the test?" is a totally management idea. lol blame those pesky engineers!
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I once had to compete in a 5,000 meter event during a stage 2-3 alert in LA in 90+ degrees. Me and a teammate were going for a PR. I dropped out after 6 laps since our splits were so bad. My teammate stayed in and won but well short of his goal. I could hear him wheezing down the final straight from 100m away.
 
Any VW owners?

I actually have a 2004 R32 toy, 06 golf daily and my fiancée has a 2.0T 98 GTI
 
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will_t said:
I actually have a 2004 R32 toy, 06 golf daily and my fiancée has a 2.0T 98 GTI
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I love the early R32. A silver one parked next to me a few days ago and they are so nice. Same with certain colors on the MK6.


Found out yesterday that my sister is probably joining the VW club with a 2015 or 16 Jetta. My mom has a blue CC, my dad a white MK7R, my limestone gray MK7R and whatever my sister gets for a color (I'm hoping for platinum grey metallic). We are that family.
 
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I am marrying into that same type of family. My fiancées father has a Porsche 912, G60 Corrado, 75' rabbit, old air cooled double cab, 63 bug, etc etc.

I absolutely love my R. I've had it about a year now. It's not in the best shape body wise, but it runs perfect and I got a great deal on it. I've been building it up for autocross. It's currently apart in the garage because I had to drop the driveshaft to install the new CAE race shifter. The install is finished, I just need to adjust it properly before I start putting it back together.

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will_t said:
I am marrying into that same type of family. My fiancées father has a Porsche 912, G60 Corrado, 75' rabbit, old air cooled double cab, 63 bug, etc etc.

I absolutely love my R. I've had it about a year now. It's not in the best shape body wise, but it runs perfect and I got a great deal on it. I've been building it up for autocross. It's currently apart in the garage because I had to drop the driveshaft to install the new CAE race shifter. The install is finished, I just need to adjust it properly before I start putting it back together.

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Awesome! I just changed the oil in my MK6 GTI today. I have two cars that I really enjoyed owning over the years my E36 M3 and my R32. I also had a TR, do you have the clear coat failure issue? I was lucky and mine was okay. The vr6 really had a nice sound to it, I had a blue haldex controller, eip race series exhaust, neuspeed intake, C2 tune and a set of BBS CH and loved the look. Was in the process of buying headers and straight pipes but ended up selling it.
 
yeah, unfortunately mine does have the tornado red clear coat issue. but that's part of the reason I bought the car so cheap, $6700 with zero mechanical issues. So far as performance goes I've got RPF1s with 245/40 Hankook RS3s, Hawk HPS pads, Brembo blank rotors, Ksport coilovers, USP Motorsports upper and lower adjustable rear control arms, H&R rear sway bar, ECS brand intake, Magnaflow catback, USP test pipe, Unitronic stage 2 software, CAE Ultra shifter, Spec stage 2 clutch and 9lb aluminum flywheel...I may be forgetting a thing or two, but that's most of it.

I've got a long way to go before it's perfect for me, but I love the car and the way it feels driving it hard...can't complain about the sound it makes either haha.
 
will_t said:
yeah, unfortunately mine does have the tornado red clear coat issue. but that's part of the reason I bought the car so cheap, $6700 with zero mechanical issues. So far as performance goes I've got RPF1s with 245/40 Hankook RS3s, Hawk HPS pads, Brembo blank rotors, Ksport coilovers, USP Motorsports upper and lower adjustable rear control arms, H&R rear sway bar, ECS brand intake, Magnaflow catback, USP test pipe, Unitronic stage 2 software, CAE Ultra shifter, Spec stage 2 clutch and 9lb aluminum flywheel...I may be forgetting a thing or two, but that's most of it.

I've got a long way to go before it's perfect for me, but I love the car and the way it feels driving it hard...can't complain about the sound it makes either haha.
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Nice, that is a great price, even if it has higher mileage. People are still trying to sell those things for 12k+ with 100K+ miles on them. I bet its fun, the wheels and tires really have to help. I want to get a set of 16 or 17 inch rpf1s for my gti but its just not a priority. I don't even drive it that much, I never even put summer tires on it this year.
 
Yeah, it's understandable. I'm done modding the R for a while. I gotta get it painted before my wedding next year (it'll be incorporated in the festivities) so mod money is pretty much done. That's definitely a good thing about golf, it's a hobby you don't necessarily have to continue to dump money in.
 
will_t said:
Yeah, it's understandable. I'm done modding the R for a while. I gotta get it painted before my wedding next year (it'll be incorporated in the festivities) so mod money is pretty much done. That's definitely a good thing about golf, it's a hobby you don't necessarily have to continue to dump money in.
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Plus side is looking at your upgrades there isn't exactly much else to do other than intercooler and bigger turbo. Great price for it too, the only two 2004's I could find were both in the 10k range with 200k miles.

I'm still waiting for APR to release their downpipe for the mk7's. I was looking at the the bull x and millteks but for the price plus the retune I feel like I can wait plus I'm not planning on it until next year and APR claims sometime this year it will be available.. The rest of my list which will be drawn out over some time so I have things to do are, diverter valve, VWR springs, Neuspeed RSE10 wheels with pilot super sports, U34 dogbone ($34 kind of a no brainer), apr dsg tune, and euro tail lights. I'm probably doing the lights over Christmas, down pipe around march. I'd love to do the turbo and intercooler but I'll wait till I kill the stock turbo first. Euro front lights are in the I have way to much money to blow category now same with an AWE turboback exhaust. I was going to autocross it this year but didnt have the chance so swaybars may be on the list. I want to avoid coilovers since they won't work with the DCC as of now and brakes and rotors are stupid expensive but the wait reduction is massive.
 
I know for tunes, the APR one doesn't void warranty. Does their hardware?
 
sudseh said:
I know for tunes, the APR one doesn't void warranty. Does their hardware?
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No tune truly voids your warranty. Its just that VW can deny warranty claims if they can prove the tune or whatever you did caused it. So lets say you tune the ECU and the brakes go, you will be covered still for the brakes. Now if you drop a turbo, unless it was faulty (early mk7's were) you are out of luck. This applies to APR as well as any other tune. You can bypasss this by flashing back to stock when you take it to the dealer so you don't get td1 flagged. Hardware is a whole different animal. Changing the downpipe is kind of going past the point of no return in my opinion as taking it back to stock is too much work.
 
Nighthawk117a said:
Plus side is looking at your upgrades there isn't exactly much else to do other than intercooler and bigger turbo. Great price for it too, the only two 2004's I could find were both in the 10k range with 200k.
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The R32s are naturally aspirated, so I can't get intercooler or turbo upgrades just yet lol. I do plan on supercharging it eventually. Just want to make it a good all around streetable weekend race car.

The newer 2.0Ts are insane with just simple bolt ons and a tune. A friend of mine has a mk7 gti with just a drop in filter and APR stage 1 software and it hauls. He said a few guys have dynoed with just the software and made 290+ whp...insane.
 
will_t said:
The R32s are naturally aspirated, so I can't get intercooler or turbo upgrades just yet lol. I do plan on supercharging it eventually. Just want to make it a good all around streetable weekend race car.

The newer 2.0Ts are insane with just simple bolt ons and a tune. A friend of mine has a mk7 gti with just a drop in filter and APR stage 1 software and it hauls. He said a few guys have dynoed with just the software and made 290+ whp...insane.
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Silly me forgot the VR6 didn't come with a turbo. So many people end up putting a turbo on it I just assumed. My bad. Yes the current EA888 engine is really easy to get power out of. Most tunes are adding 80 ft-lbs of torque and around 50-60 hp on 91 octane fuel. Its a joke for the price. Stage 2 ups that to 89hp and 100 ft-lbs of torque. All out of a little 2.0L 4 cylinder.
 
Nighthawk117a said:
Silly me forgot the VR6 didn't come with a turbo. So many people end up putting a turbo on it I just assumed. My bad. Yes the current EA888 engine is really easy to get power out of. Most tunes are adding 80 ft-lbs of torque and around 50-60 hp on 91 octane fuel. Its a joke for the price. Stage 2 ups that to 89hp and 100 ft-lbs of torque. All out of a little 2.0L 4 cylinder.
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Yeah the R32 were pretty tapped out from the factory at 240hp. I thought they were a little under powered for the weight but it was a fun car.

The 2.0T is solid, makes decent power. The clutches they put in them are weak though. We had stage 1 tunes destroy them.

My buddy has a CC and is working on an AWD swap and eventually big turbo. One day hope to see 500 or so whp.

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