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- #76
You are welcome. It's a journey, and there are lots of ways to get there. Trying to find the right path, as I am sure you and others are. Good luck!
How forgiveness impacts progress
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You are welcome. It's a journey, and there are lots of ways to get there. Trying to find the right path, as I am sure you and others are. Good luck!
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- #77
Actually, I didn't say they would. Those things need to be figured out regardless. I was really only talking about feedback from minor misses, which the Eye 2's are pretty muted on. If you look at my original post, I was really weighing getting harder clubs to force me to take lessons. The thought also being that the feedback I get from blade-ier irons would also give me more information than I have now. The whole thing was really about forcing a faster learning process on myself. And serious failure would probably do that.
I can almost hack my way around a course today (PB 92, two 9's back to back in the 43/44 range), and have some level of success. I know it is crap to most good golfers, but for me it feels like progress. And if I really want to be the best I can be, is there a faster (albeit more painful way) to get there? I guess part of me feels like the more forgiving clubs right now might be slowing things down. Not saying they are, but it has me asking the question.
They aren't. Coming from personal experience. When I finally started taking golf seriously I dropped my scores from the 100's into the high 80's fairly quickly (within a season) while using GI irons. They aren't hindering you in the least bit IMO. If anything more forgiving irons will help you at first. again, IMO.
YetiLooper
New member
Just buy a single as a training aid.
theoverswinger
New member
I don't think there's any relationship between forgiving clubs and improvement. While I'm at the point of improving my basic skill set and I'm not yet going into shot shaping, my gear is moving to the "aim small, miss small" philosophy.
I finally learned to hit good iron shots by switching from TM R9's to Mizuno MP 52's, and swapped my Nike VR 3W with an i25 3W.
However, I may be the exception here. Still, there are many other subjective factors like confidence, look, and feel where I find the smaller-headed clubs more fun to play with, without affecting my plan for improvement.
I finally learned to hit good iron shots by switching from TM R9's to Mizuno MP 52's, and swapped my Nike VR 3W with an i25 3W.
However, I may be the exception here. Still, there are many other subjective factors like confidence, look, and feel where I find the smaller-headed clubs more fun to play with, without affecting my plan for improvement.
Just because it worked for me doesn't mean that it will work for you. I will give you an example. Three of the best amateur players that I know, which are all scratch or better and are two brothers and their dad, play 3 different "level" sets. One plays blades, another CBs and the third plays AP2s. All three are excellent players but they play what they prefer.
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Totally agree, I play with a couple guys on Fridays that are good players and we all play what we enjoy and what gives us the best blend of what we like. I don't think an iron will make a lick of difference until you learn basic ball control and a tempo that doesn't effect your balance in a negative way. I play a forged players club because I can hit them well and off center strikes are not my problem, that isn't the case for a lot of golfers but if you lose strokes to being a sporadic ball striker than a club that goes a little straighter and offers more distance on misfits is a good choice. It's all in what you want, like, and feel is best for you.
Enjoy your journey, it's yours.
Bingo. And reiterates the biggest take away from all this. Play what you like and are comfortable with.
You shouldn't let anyone tell you otherwise. But if you ask, be prepared for it
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- #85
This is a really good discussion, guys. I appreciate all the comments, and there are no right or wrong answers or opinions. As usual, you guys give me a lot to consider. I am going to hit some different irons this week and see what i think. Hopefully that clears things up a bit!
I fully understand the mental/visual side to it. Not questioning that at all. Having confidence in what you are using it is nearly as important as knowing what to do.
However...I still can't seem to understand the thought that GI clubs are masking flaws to the point where you are "getting away with so much". What exactly are you getting away with? This is an honest question. It doesn't make sense to me at all. How much more to your swing than ball speeds and launch angle can the club head really be accounting for? It's certainly not going to mask any sort of a swing flaw. Punish you less? Sure. Mask something? Not at all IMO. Again, I get the visual/confidence side of it, I really do. I highly highly doubt however that GI clubs mask swing flaws and hinder improvement.
I'm still a little foggy how muscle back irons will fix a swing and how forgiving clubs don't offer feedback.
rallo
#FYF
This is a hard subject for me to talk about, as for me it was a chicken vs the egg argument.
A couple of years ago I had a combo set of mp53/mp64s... they were gorgeous and I loved them, but I was too inconsistent. I had to practice more often then I had time for just to remain remotely consistent. It was a hard day for me to sell them and purchase a set of rocketbladez, but the results were night and day, and I saw some of my best ball striking rounds shortly after... now did this happen because of the extensive practice WITH players irons... or just from extensive practice??? I could not tell you, but the game has surely become more enjoyable since the switch. Play what you want, but maybe leave a little consideration for playing what fits your game.
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A couple of years ago I had a combo set of mp53/mp64s... they were gorgeous and I loved them, but I was too inconsistent. I had to practice more often then I had time for just to remain remotely consistent. It was a hard day for me to sell them and purchase a set of rocketbladez, but the results were night and day, and I saw some of my best ball striking rounds shortly after... now did this happen because of the extensive practice WITH players irons... or just from extensive practice??? I could not tell you, but the game has surely become more enjoyable since the switch. Play what you want, but maybe leave a little consideration for playing what fits your game.
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I guess they should start putting a disclaimer on clubs that says individual results may vary.
I fully admit the mental side of it is HUGE (so is the the ego side for many). I guess, for me, if a player can't analyze their ball flight and determine what they did wrong, a stinging blade shot will be just as hard to diagnose what the cause of the swing fault is.
rallo
#FYF
Aussie Dave
Hacker From OZ
The new world #1 Jason Day uses Tmag RSI Tour Preferred Irons there would be more forgivness in them than a pure blade and it works for him.
I'm sure it's been said already (sorry, skimmed) but I'd think that lack of knowledge about what your swing is doing, and doing wrong, is going to impact progress far more than the clubs in your bag.
I guess I just don't get the whole aspect of feeling like gear is holding someone back. If you shoot good scores with it, then use it. Have fun. It's a game.
I guess I just don't get the whole aspect of feeling like gear is holding someone back. If you shoot good scores with it, then use it. Have fun. It's a game.
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Why even judge people though? I play blades and I don't have an ego about them, they are what I play best and I've played GI irons all season .
What I do have is a skill set that allows me to hit them because I spent thousands of hours at the range learning to do so, I'll say that a Mishit on a blade and a Mishit onThe RSI 2s are night and day in feel as is feedback. A blade is harsher in its own way but I can tell you that for me the poorly hit shot on a GI iron Was equally horrible, off the toe I t was by far one of the worst feeling shots I've felt. I don't think K there's a right or a wrong to this and weather someone likes blades or cast is their choice as it is yours. Why the need to interogate over it?
You playing blades is not ego.
Me wanting to blades because they look awesome, is very much ego
YetiLooper
New member
For those saying gear doesn't hold people back how many of you are saying so due to personal experience? Personal experience here when I have spent the time and my swing is grooved I have never hit irons with more accuracy than I hit my muscle backs, which aren't in play right now due to desire for a smidge more forgiveness. Though I've never felt like they hurt my iron play much.
Each person is different. In terms of mental aspect and confidence, I kind of think of irons as surgical instruments designed for precision.... in the right hands. To me a forged blade or tour cavity is much more of an extension of my hands than are SGI irons... when I have put the time in.
The whole thing though... the whole thing is about consistent repeatability with your swing. So here's my personal bottom line, should most people play blades? Certainly not. Would people be as punished as they think? No. Would most single digit players benefit more from a tour cavity than a SGI? Yes. Yes you see tour players with more forgiving players irons, but you aren't seeing Cleveland Altitudes or Cobra Fly-Z XL, irons out there.
Each person is different. In terms of mental aspect and confidence, I kind of think of irons as surgical instruments designed for precision.... in the right hands. To me a forged blade or tour cavity is much more of an extension of my hands than are SGI irons... when I have put the time in.
The whole thing though... the whole thing is about consistent repeatability with your swing. So here's my personal bottom line, should most people play blades? Certainly not. Would people be as punished as they think? No. Would most single digit players benefit more from a tour cavity than a SGI? Yes. Yes you see tour players with more forgiving players irons, but you aren't seeing Cleveland Altitudes or Cobra Fly-Z XL, irons out there.
YetiLooper
New member
Have you tried blades? I only ask out of curiosity, not as a means to be snarky or call you out in any way.
Yes. But I also know enough about the various ball flights to know in my swing what causes them.
What I also am is distance obsessed and looks obsessed. I want LOOOOOOONG and pretty.
YetiLooper
New member
Are you playing the most forgiving club you could buy? So to me, I get the mindset of the super forgiving, but I don't plan or expect to have very many poorly hit iron shots, and the more loft the less I feel I need forgiveness. In fact to me if I hit a 5 iron ugly it is going to be offline usually and I would rather the distance on that offline shot be reduced, especially on tight courses. That's just me though.
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- #100
This is far too great a generalization to the first question. My game got significantly better going to larger club heads, and I have been a single digit for quite a while. And yes, I have played musclebacks in a THP Event with major competition on the line (The Morgan Cup).
And yes you see tour players with more forgiving players irons, but check the bottom of their bag. They are ABSOLUTELY playing hybrids and hollow body irons (which are Altitudes), or larger club heads. Why? Obvious answer is they want the ball flight and forgiveness. In our conversations with them, that is the exact reason they give.
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