You vs Tour Players - Scrambling #Own125

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JB

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Boy, this is me in a nutshell. I spent my return to golf so far, working on my ball striking, which has come back surprisingly quickly. But inside of 50 yards and thru the green...Good Lord it's been Ugly (yep, with a capital U).

But, I've begun the journey to correct that issue. Wish it wan't end of season around here, but I'm making notes on what is helping my slow improvements around the greens.
 
eye opening to see 10 hcp's are only at 15%
 
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I like his scale of importance a lot, and absolutely agree. I've scored low comparative to my normal scores on days I'm not hitting fairways because I scrambled well. And consequently, some of my better driving days end with high scores because my wedges are off.

..but short game is just a marketing ploy anyway.
 
Not on the internet of course...:D
I fall right in line with that though. I am around 11% percent according to my Golfshot app. Definitely an area i need to convert more, and I really dont think I have that bad of pitch and chipping game. Putting is my arch nemesis.
 
What a great video/clip. It's amazing how much you THINK you get up and down, even on a good day. Might need to make this a stat, just to follow for myself. Percentage of Up and Down on missed greens. As a player around a 10 handicap, 15% sounds right...maybe some days are better, but more are worse I bet.
 
An interesting approach for sure, that's the kind of statistical outlook I would expect from Pelz and a great marketing campaign for cleveland.
 
I could listen to Pelz preach/speak on just about anything.
 
I can't even figure out how to get to the 15% number - do you take GIR and bogey v par? Or FIR but not GIR for bogey?
I believe it tho. My scores climb when my short game isn't good.


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How many starting out will actually pay attention to this though?

I know when I was starting out, heck even until maybe 3 years ago, all my practice time was spent hitting irons/driver on the range. Rarely practiced short game, and never practiced putting.
Now? The exact opposite. 90% of my time spent chipping/pitching/putting, the rest of the time hitting balls on the range.
 
Short game skills are important, but his ranking doesn't match reality. Not according to all the current info gained from Shotlink.

"Mark Broadie, the Columbia Business School professor who came up with the strokes-gained-putting statistic now used by the PGA Tour, has devised a way to quantify the relative contribution to scoring of the long game and the short game, and his conclusion is probably not what you think. He is expanding this and other interesting new golf statistical research into a book for publication next year, but here's the take-away: Shots that originate more than 100 yards from the hole have twice the impact on score of shots from inside 100 yards—including putting. Long-game results account for about two-thirds of the variability in scores among golfers on the PGA Tour (the short game is one-third)."

"Guys say you have to have a short game to win tournaments and it is not the case. Not at all," Rory McIlroy said last spring. His comments sparked a controversy, but Jack Nicklaus rose to his defense. "I agree with Rory," Nicklaus said. "I never practiced my short game because I felt like if I can hit 15 greens a round and hit a couple of par-fives in two and if I can make all my putts inside 10 feet, who cares where I chip it?"

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702303753904577454662959172648
 
I can't even figure out how to get to the 15% number - do you take GIR and bogey v par? Or FIR but not GIR for bogey?
I believe it tho. My scores climb when my short game isn't good.


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I believe it's based on all of the holes you missed GIR on, and then see how many pars/birdies you had on those holes.

so...# of pars + birdies / # of missed GIR

If I only have 4 GIR, that means I missed 14. If of those 14 holes I get "up and down" for par or better 5 times, then my scrambling % is 5/14, or 35%.

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.
 
Well, that didn't take long to disprove his theory.

#Page1
 
Short game skills are important, but his ranking doesn't match reality. Not according to all the current info gained from Shotlink.

"Mark Broadie, the Columbia Business School professor who came up with the strokes-gained-putting statistic now used by the PGA Tour, has devised a way to quantify the relative contribution to scoring of the long game and the short game, and his conclusion is probably not what you think. He is expanding this and other interesting new golf statistical research into a book for publication next year, but here's the take-away: Shots that originate more than 100 yards from the hole have twice the impact on score of shots from inside 100 yards—including putting. Long-game results account for about two-thirds of the variability in scores among golfers on the PGA Tour (the short game is one-third)."

"Guys say you have to have a short game to win tournaments and it is not the case. Not at all," Rory McIlroy said last spring. His comments sparked a controversy, but Jack Nicklaus rose to his defense. "I agree with Rory," Nicklaus said. "I never practiced my short game because I felt like if I can hit 15 greens a round and hit a couple of par-fives in two and if I can make all my putts inside 10 feet, who cares where I chip it?"

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702303753904577454662959172648

Let me know where you are finding amateurs hitting 15 greens a round and I'll agree with you. Isn't the average GIR for amateurs something around 4? yea...completely different situation.
 
Short game skills are important, but his ranking doesn't match reality. Not according to all the current info gained from Shotlink.

"Mark Broadie, the Columbia Business School professor who came up with the strokes-gained-putting statistic now used by the PGA Tour, has devised a way to quantify the relative contribution to scoring of the long game and the short game, and his conclusion is probably not what you think. He is expanding this and other interesting new golf statistical research into a book for publication next year, but here's the take-away: Shots that originate more than 100 yards from the hole have twice the impact on score of shots from inside 100 yards—including putting. Long-game results account for about two-thirds of the variability in scores among golfers on the PGA Tour (the short game is one-third)."

"Guys say you have to have a short game to win tournaments and it is not the case. Not at all," Rory McIlroy said last spring. His comments sparked a controversy, but Jack Nicklaus rose to his defense. "I agree with Rory," Nicklaus said. "I never practiced my short game because I felt like if I can hit 15 greens a round and hit a couple of par-fives in two and if I can make all my putts inside 10 feet, who cares where I chip it?"

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702303753904577454662959172648

For a PGA tour player who routinely gets up and down I could this ringing true. They play a different game then we do.
 
Very interesting video. So true about the short game though, and why I'm putting most of my practice now into my short game. I had a round about 6 weeks ago that was my best 9 holes of the year (shot a 39). My FIR was only 14%. GIR was at 44%. But my short game was on fire! Up and downs almost anytime I missed a green. It was eye opening for sure.
 
The short game is something I've worked a ton on over the last couple of years. When I go to the range, I'll hit 50-60% wedge shots and the rest will be split between irons, driver, and fairway woods. I still don't have the chipping down to where I want it, but if I'm 50-150 in, I feel very confident that I'm about to hit the green. I don't always hit it, but the majority of the time I do. If I miss the green, however, my confidence in getting up and down having to chip isn't high at all. Most of the time I'm happy if I can chip it to within 15-20 feet of the hole, which in my opinion, is not a good goal to have.
 
For a PGA tour player who routinely gets up and down I could this ringing true. They play a different game then we do.

I agree. To compare our games and practice habits to a professional that practices and plays 1000% more than us amateurs is not apples to oranges.
 
Let me know where you are finding amateurs hitting 15 greens a round and I'll agree with you. Isn't the average GIR for amateurs something around 4? yea...completely different situation.

I agree somewhat, but the video is already comparing tour pros to amateurs.

A better way to look at is "if you can't putt, you can't score. if you can't drive, you can't play." It doesn't have to be a driver, but means performance off the tee in general.
 
I agree somewhat, but the video is already comparing tour pros to amateurs.

A better way to look at is "if you can't putt, you can't score. if you can't drive, you can't play." It doesn't have to be a driver, but means performance off the tee in general.

In a different way I believe though. The video says pros get up and 60% of the time. To them this has to be an after thought at this point and for them to score better they need to get closer to the hole because they are so GREAT with thier scoring clubs. Thats how I look at it though.
 
I actually enjoy the short game a lot. Some thoughts on this... a friend of mine who is not an avid golfer is considering lessons and one place said they would start him off with short game. Short game is important but if you struggle to get off the tee or lose three balls before you get to the green, why would you not work on irons and woods? Most golfing humans can putt a golf ball even if it takes 5 putts. Again, short game is important and I'm not saying it isn't, but to get a beginner to where they can go out and play on the course, I think they need to be able to get to the green.

Also, I think when you compare pros to a 20 handicap, a possible factor is how seriously they take preparing for a chip or a putt. How many weekend hackers do you know that read a putt from both sides before addressing the ball? I wouldn't put it past some folks to ridicule a golfer for doing that. Maybe some comments like "What is this guy, a pro or something?" But at the same time, if a weekend hacker wants to play better, why not take each swing/putt seriously?
 
I'm really new to serious golf, but never heard of any other sport where the average Joe is compared to a Pro so often. I'm not a pro and don't aspire to be one. I can't be. If it was my job, then yeah maybe. Yes, the short game is very important. I get it. There is no comparison however between the game amateurs play with their friends on a beautiful day and the careers these Pros are trying to cultivate. It's a completely different mindset.

I used to play in a pick up baseball league. We didn't worry about approaching the big league numbers. Same with Basketball. Are guys out there throwing free throws to get better and comparing their numbers to the NBA stars?
 
eye opening to see 10 hcp's are only at 15%

This actually makes me feel a lot better about my short game. I thought I was lagging behind in this area but it turns out I am around average for my handicap.
 
Awfully cool video, numbers don't lie.
 
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