Active versus passive club face in the golf swing

I've mentioned previously about re-working my swing based on some frustrations I've had. I worked with a coach for 2 years who helped me with my positions and wrist angles and I saw a lot of improvement. He taught a swing where you load behind the ball, pull your arms down and roll your forearms through impact. There is a lot of timing required in this swing and he often would use video clips of Ernie Els and Ben Crenshaw. On days where my timing was good, I would strike my irons well but have struggled with my driver. (Part of that is a mental block I've been trying to overcome.) I've started working with a new coach who noticed my hips stall before impact and I'm using my arms to try to save the shot/guide the club. He does not like an active club face as he said it causes too many inconsistencies. I have read support for both methods so I'm curious which would be recommended. I will say that after several weeks of working on this it feels like I get to a good position at the top, the turn through the shot. I feel like I leave my arms behind me and just turn. I'm not in my head anymore trying to time my hands up perfectly and have been driving more consistently as well. My clips are finally clearing and I'm starting to hit some really nice shots. Have I been going about it all wrong this whole time?

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If you’re striking it well, why are you soliciting advice? Don’t think, just do. If it breaks, come back and ask. Just keep practicing and enjoy the swing.

Your forearms have to rotate some during the swing, which means your hands do too. But as Freddie said, it's not something you should have to think about which would make it's occurrence "passive" and not something you are trying to force ("active").

Same goes for the hips/pelvis. It has to move, but it moves less than the shoulders/arms/hands, and it should be a reaction to what you are doing and not something you have to force or think about. Do you think a professional boxer or MLB pitcher think about their hips when they are rotating through a punch or throw? They just do it, and their body responds.

This shows the optimal swing sequence and what it looks like throughout:

https://www.mytpi.com/articles/biomechanics/the_linear_kinematic_sequence

Everyone learns differently. I would suggest looking at videos Tony Luczak or Mike Malaska for some different takes on the swing ("reactionary golf"). You might find a simple swing thought or drill that works for you from one of them.

Tadashi70 said:

If you’re striking it well, why are you soliciting advice? Don’t think, just do. If it breaks, come back and ask. Just keep practicing and enjoy the swing.

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Thank you Freddie! I'm in my head way too much and should get out of there. I'm seeing good results and just wanted to make sure there were no pitfalls ahead. I'm going to keep working on it and will reach out if I hit any struggles!

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93civiccpe said:

Thank you Freddie! I'm in my head way too much and should get out of there. I'm seeing good results and just wanted to make sure there were no pitfalls ahead. I'm going to keep working on it and will reach out if I hit any struggles!

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Unless your golf pro is a total quack, he’s got you going in the right direction. Listen to what he says and just practice what he says. I think it’s iimportant in the beginning that we look for the positions that they want us to be in. And we feel those positions within our swing so that we know what the sensation is like. But at the end of the day you got to just swing the club and accept the results that you get.

Too much info can really paralyze your swing. If you are seeing solid results, don’t look for answers. Look for results and repeat that swing for consistent results.

Mr. Kong, as usual, gives stellar advice.

Both instructors probably have improved golfers, but it sounds to me like the second is more your style. I don't claim this is the entire answer, but what you are reporting is consistent with a book I read last year, and am re-reading this year, by Jim Hardy - Impact: Golf's Moment of Truth. He has a theory that all of us naturally favor one of two ways to release the club. One is not superior to the other, except to the extent that one way fits an individual much better than the other. He maintains that for most people, it's counterproductive to attempt to adapt to the wrong release. Each approach has a long list of successful pros who use/used it. It's described briefly here:

https://www.tworeleases.com/

I get the sense you want to be convinced you are doing it right. The book may help you, but if things are working for you, I would ask your current instructor about your dilemma, and whether he thinks reading the book would help you or hurt you. But to attempt to answer your question at a high level, one approach - your current one - is better for you, and so you should stick with it.

-CRW- said:

Your forearms have to rotate some during the swing, which means your hands do too. But as Freddie said, it's not something you should have to think about which would make it's occurrence "passive" and not something you are trying to force ("active").

Same goes for the hips/pelvis. It has to move, but it moves less than the shoulders/arms/hands, and it should be a reaction to what you are doing and not something you have to force or think about. Do you think a professional boxer or MLB pitcher think about their hips when they are rotating through a punch or throw? They just do it, and their body responds.

This shows the optimal swing sequence and what it looks like throughout:

https://www.mytpi.com/articles/biomechanics/the_linear_kinematic_sequence

Everyone learns differently. I would suggest looking at videos Tony Luczak or Mike Malaska for some different takes on the swing ("reactionary golf"). You might find a simple swing thought or drill that works for you from one of them.

Click to expand...

That is a good reference and I appreciate it. I haven't seen that before.

Reframmellator said:

Mr. Kong, as usual, gives stellar advice.

Both instructors probably have improved golfers, but it sounds to me like the second is more your style. I don't claim this is the entire answer, but what you are reporting is consistent with a book I read last year, and am re-reading this year, by Jim Hardy - Impact: Golf's Moment of Truth. He has a theory that all of us naturally favor one of two ways to release the club. One is not superior to the other, except to the extent that one way fits an individual much better than the other. He maintains that for most people, it's counterproductive to attempt to adapt to the wrong release. Each approach has a long list of successful pros who use/used it. It's described briefly here:

https://www.tworeleases.com/

I get the sense you want to be convinced you are doing it right. The book may help you, but if things are working for you, I would ask your current instructor about your dilemma, and whether he thinks reading the book would help you or hurt you. But to attempt to answer your question at a high level, one approach - your current one - is better for you, and so you should stick with it.

Click to expand...

Thank you, that sounds spot on. I was over-thinking everything with the first release and this new method feels more natural to me. I'll check that book out and ask this instructor.

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I just re-checked the link I provided and it does not take you to the page I had in mind. Try this:

www.tworeleases.com