General questions about sand and lob wedges

Greetings, first post here after lurking for a few weeks ....

I am an improving hacker who just got kind of serious about the game about a year ago, taking it up after a 15 year layoff to run marathons and start a family. I wasn't any good before the layoff, so it actually probably helped (except for getting 15 years older). I'm still not any good, but I have improved to a 17 handicap, breaking 90 from time to time.

In December I got fitted and bought new irons - Ping G, one inch long and three degrees upright. The standard set was 4-gap wedge. Last week I went back and got the matching sand wedge. And there the questions begin.

I play mostly Munis in central Texas, and don't see many bunkers with good sand. My opportunities to play a traditional sand shot are almost none. Usually there is 0 to 1/2 inch of pretty coarse sand on top of hardpan, and I would be asking for trouble trying to hit an explosion shot. So I developed a Texas bunker shot where I take my 60 degree wedge and slice just under the ball with a pendulum swing and no wrist break. I got pretty good at this, and probably get out of the bunker in one shot 4 times out of 5. And the munis don't have that many bunkers, so this strategy is usually good enough. I carried a sand wedge, but almost never used it.

So you might be wondering what drove me to buy a matching SW for my new set. I was looking for a club that I could hit 60-80 yards without relying totally on feel. Up to now I have pretty much used my gap wedge for everything between 20 and 100. I never got comfortable with my previous SW, which was a different brand and type. I couldn't tell if it was going to go 40 yards or 90 yards.

So I picked up the new SW on Friday and played three rounds this weekend. So far it looks like a keeper for normal fairway shots. I was able to hit it accurately and consistently about 75 yards. (I'm not a long hitter, and I wasn't trying to swing hard). As it turned out, on Saturday I played in Houston at a friend's country club, where they do have real bunkers. Before the round, I went down to the practice bunkers and went 10/10 on explosion shots, despite knowing very little about what I was doing. I did screw one up during the round, but that's me.

If you are interested (or bored) enough to still be reading, I am getting closer to the question. The issue I have with this SW is one that I have also had with others. It seems like I do OK hitting it with a full swing, but if I try to hit a 3/4 or 1/2 shot, I get an unacceptable percentage of shots where the club digs into the ground behind the ball. A much higher percentage than with my gap wedge (which is 50 degrees, versus 54 for the SW).

So now the dumb questions:

Is this due to the SW having a different shape (more bounce)? Should I worry about trying to develop a distance range for the SW, or just go back to the gap wedge for the shorter shots?

If the bounce is that much different, how will the lob wedge of the same set (58 degrees) compare? Is a SW different because it has sand in the name, or will a lob wedge also have lots of bounce?

My current 60 degree wedge is a no-name I got for 10 bucks, and it seems to have a much narrower, more knife-like profile. It's very easy to slide under the ball (see the Texas bunker shot above). Is it going to be harder for me to do this sort of shot with a 58 degree Ping G wedge?

One other point that I forgot - I expected the Ping G set to feel and act differently due to the lower COG and other game-improvement technology. My previous set was Ping G2, same idea, but 10-12 years back. I expected the difference on full shots, but what I didn't think about was the impact on chipping. With a wedge or an 8 irons, I find it easier to get a clean impact (love that sound) with a higher ball flight and softer landing.

Thanks for your time, and I will go back to lurking and learning.

I’m no expert by any means. I’ve had the digging issue when chipping, or partial shots. In my case I wasn’t committing to the shot, and letting my weight shift. Try making sure your front leg is keeping your weight and see if that helps at all.

Welcome to THP & Welcome back to the game!

I don't believe more bounce would induce digging, as it should inspire the opposite. One drill that worked for me, was when on the range, sticking a tee in the ground even with the back of my ball, but maybe 1-2" further away from me (opposite side of the ball). My sole focus was to make sure my divot started after the tee (when evaluating after each shot).

Hey, welcome to THP!

I really like my G irons, not that your need any reinforcement there.

I have a few suggestions about your partial wedge shots. All three have really helped my short game.

Are you making enough rotation on your partial swings? I found after a lesson that things got a lot better when I made sure that happened.

How's your tempo? Celebrity golf teacher Michael Breed says your swing should be "languid" on partial shots.

How's your follow through? You may want to try holding the followthrough for a few seconds to ensure you are focusing on swinging through the club. The longer the partial shot, the longer the followthrough should be.

dazeedmonds said:

I’m no expert by any means. I’ve had the digging issue when chipping, or partial shots. In my case I wasn’t committing to the shot, and letting my weight shift. Try making sure your front leg is keeping your weight and see if that helps at all.

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This also helped me. The instructor also had me place the ball well forward in my stance.

I'm a hacker as well. Couple of things helped me get a little more consistent:
-spend some time in the sand and use a number of clubs in the practice bunker. For green side bunkers in the ****** sand I play in,ball a little forward of centre, open stance, open club face, really dig down with your feet, full swing. I don't try to strike behind the ball, just take a normal swing. I discovered my 52 degree works most of the time.
-I found taking a number of practice swings and finding where my club bottoms out really reduced hitting behind the ball. I usually had the ball well forward of my bottom, for the lie I had.

If it is a short bunker shot over a lip, I use more bottom hand and cut across the ball. Trying to make sure I have little or no shaft lean at impact. Ball pops up with a bit of spin and generally leaves me a makeable putt. When there is not much sand it is important to enter the sand close to the ball with a shallow swing path. Practice lets you get an idea of swing length required.

To get no shaft lean at impact I try and make sure my shoulders are close to level and my bottom hand brings the the clubhead through at impact holding clubface open to the sky.

If it is a long bunker shot I just play it like a pitch shot and have some shaft lean. Ball runs out when you have shaft lean. Still the same rules apply when not much sand depth, enter sand closer to ball with shallow swing path.

The biggest thing I have learned about bunker play and short game in general is that shaft lean matters.

TwoStepsUp said:

The issue I have with this SW is one that I have also had with others. It seems like I do OK hitting it with a full swing, but if I try to hit a 3/4 or 1/2 shot, I get an unacceptable percentage of shots where the club digs into the ground behind the ball. A much higher percentage than with my gap wedge (which is 50 degrees, versus 54 for the SW).

Click to expand...

Welcome to the site!

The quote above was the key one for me. You obviously have a tendency to steepen your swing on your less than full swings and crash into the ground behind the ball. We're dealing primarily with a swing issue, not an equipment issue. 80% or more of the time, the problem is not rotating through the shot like you do with the full swing. As soon as you slow down or stop turning with your core, the clubhead drops to the ground like a rock, the club quickly casts (loses lag) and crashes into the ground behind the ball. Because this steepens the path, the front edge of the club is exposed and the clubhead digs into the ground.

Practice 1/2 swings and focus on turning back and through the shot. Notice how that moves the bottoming out point forward and shallows out the swing path. Now instead of digging into the ground behind the ball, you now bruise the grass (or mat) and the bottoming out position is moved forward considerably.

Work on that until it becomes natural out on the course and you'll quickly overcome this problem.

Welcome to THP! We have a LOT of very knowledgeable people who will be able to give you help on a variety of questions. Enjoy!

I have 2 sand wedges. 1 with more bounce and the leading edge more rounded for west courses that are lush grass and thicker fluffy sand bunkers. The other is a C- grind, with less bounce and narrower sole width for firmer conditions, and more importantly bunkers with less sand, like the firmer bunker bases like my local. There is nothing worse than slapping down a wedge in a bunker decent, yet blade or thinning the shot long, only to look at the divot and see the bunker base material/dirt beneath the sand, were you barely caught the 1-2nd groove. Pick up a 54-56 C or M grind...like say a Titleist SM5 M grind should work ok, and be reasonable in price. I hope I have your situation correct...cheers

ProZoneGolf said:

I have 2 sand wedges. 1 with more bounce and the leading edge more rounded for west courses that are lush grass and thicker fluffy sand bunkers. The other is a C- grind, with less bounce and narrower sole width for firmer conditions, and more importantly bunkers with less sand, like the firmer bunker bases like my local. There is nothing worse than slapping down a wedge in a bunker decent, yet blade or thinning the shot long, only to look at the divot and see the bunker base material/dirt beneath the sand, were you barely caught the 1-2nd groove. Pick up a 54-56 C or M grind...like say a Titleist SM5 M grind should work ok, and be reasonable in price. I hope I have your situation correct...cheers

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I think you are right on at least one of my rambling questions. I also have the situation of real bunkers and semi-bunkers, with the latter being about 90% of the ones I see. I rarely try a traditional sand shot for the reason you described. Now that I have the Ping G sand wedge, I think it will be fine for the few times I have lies in deep fluffy sand and I already like it for approach shots inside 75 yards. One of the things I was thinking about was whether I could replace my current 60 degree wedge, which I use for the hard bunkers, with the Ping G lob wedge (58). I think I'll hold off on that and keep scraping the ball off the top of the coarse sand. I hadn't thought about switching between two sand wedges based on the course. I'll give that a thought. Thanks!

Willrobonsin said:

If it is a short bunker shot over a lip, I use more bottom hand and cut across the ball. Trying to make sure I have little or no shaft lean at impact. Ball pops up with a bit of spin and generally leaves me a makeable putt. When there is not much sand it is important to enter the sand close to the ball with a shallow swing path. Practice lets you get an idea of swing length required.

To get no shaft lean at impact I try and make sure my shoulders are close to level and my bottom hand brings the the clubhead through at impact holding clubface open to the sky.

If it is a long bunker shot I just play it like a pitch shot and have some shaft lean. Ball runs out when you have shaft lean. Still the same rules apply when not much sand depth, enter sand closer to ball with shallow swing path.

The biggest thing I have learned about bunker play and short game in general is that shaft lean matters.

Click to expand...

I think this is what I am doing with my 60 degree wedge, though I probably came about it in a different (less knowledgeable) way. I take a shallow swing, with little wrist action, trying to enter the sand just behind the ball. I try to think of slicing 1/4 of sand under the ball. My thought is that this works better with a wedge like my current 60 degree, which has a more knifelike profile than it will with a traditional sandwedge, which has lots of bounce and is more likely to bounce off the sand up into the ball.

leftshot said:

Welcome to the site!

The quote above was the key one for me. You obviously have a tendency to steepen your swing on your less than full swings and crash into the ground behind the ball. We're dealing primarily with a swing issue, not an equipment issue. 80% or more of the time, the problem is not rotating through the shot like you do with the full swing. As soon as you slow down or stop turning with your core, the clubhead drops to the ground like a rock, the club quickly casts (loses lag) and crashes into the ground behind the ball. Because this steepens the path, the front edge of the club is exposed and the clubhead digs into the ground.

Practice 1/2 swings and focus on turning back and through the shot. Notice how that moves the bottoming out point forward and shallows out the swing path. Now instead of digging into the ground behind the ball, you now bruise the grass (or mat) and the bottoming out position is moved forward considerably.

Work on that until it becomes natural out on the course and you'll quickly overcome this problem.

Click to expand...

I think you may be on to something. Last night while the daughter was at swim team I had half an hour before dark. I went out to the soccer field and hit some sand wedges to try to dial in how far it was going. After I figured out the full easy swing, I tried to determine what swing I needed to hit it 50 yards. For some reason I tried something different.

For reasons long forgotten, my common technique for hitting a 3/4 or 1/2 shot with a wedge has become something like an extended chipping motion - very shallow with not much wrist action and no lower body movement. I guess I was thinking that less moving parts meant more consistency and control. Clearly it would also mean less rotation, which is what you were suggesting. So last night I decided to try the other way. I took the club back to horizontal with lots of wrist break and much less movement of the hands. Doing this, I was able to get crisp 50 yard shots pretty reliably. Obviously, more practice is necessary.