Making A Murderer (Spoilers)

To be fair, the box that the vial was in potentially showed tampering, while the vial itself had no evidence of said tampering. Other than that, I'm picking up what you're putting down. The evidence is damning (key, blood, bullet, and confession) it's just the way every piece of evidence seemed to be doctored with or 'planted' or coerced that leaves mind questioning the outcome

It just seemed strange, ya know? I think your samples were great and really appreciated them, but each element had this "why" factor to it that left me shaking my head. It's not to say that he didn't commit the crime, or that he doesn't belong in jail (I am not here saying any of that), it's just all so strange.
 
Another thing I just picked up on, Avery settled for 400k in February 2006. Dassey didn't confess and the bullet wasn't found until March. If the supposed reason to frame Avery was the lawsuit, why continue to frame him after he settles for a small amount
 
Another thing I just picked up on, Avery settled for 400k in February 2006. Dassey didn't confess and the bullet wasn't found until March. If the supposed reason to frame Avery was the lawsuit, why continue to frame him after he settles for a small amount
Were there searches of the garage between his settlement and the day the bullet fragment was found? Who is to say when it was placed there, if it was placed there.
 
It just seemed strange, ya know? I think your samples were great and really appreciated them, but each element had this "why" factor to it that left me shaking my head. It's not to say that he didn't commit the crime, or that he doesn't belong in jail (I am not here saying any of that), it's just all so strange.

there is certainly a lot of strange involved in the story. I enjoyed the heck out of the series.
 
Were there searches of the garage between his settlement and the day the bullet fragment was found? Who is to say when it was placed there, if it was placed there.
So they planted it, thinking there wouldn't be another search? They wouldn't have had a reason for another search without the Dassey confession.

I just read that his attorneys claimed in a 2009 appeal breafing that his brothers had framed him because of a business dispute. They also had histories of violence against women. That makes more sense to me, however those two hardly seem like criminal masterminds.
 
So they planted it, thinking there wouldn't be another search? They wouldn't have had a reason for another search without the Dassey confession.

I just read that his attorneys claimed in a 2009 appeal breafing that his brothers had framed him because of a business dispute. They also had histories of violence against women. That makes more sense to me, however those two hardly seem like criminal masterminds.

That's the part I can't wrap my mind around. The Avery's and Dassey are mentally challenged at best. I can't imagine they could hide blood evidence since virtually none was found where the prosecution claims the murder took place. Now Avery claims his brother's framed him. They aren't mentally capable of pulling anything like that off.

With that said, even law enforcement came off as being a bit weak minded. Not to the level of Avery and Dassey but they don't appear to be overly intelligent.

Now that Dassey's brother has released a rap song pertaining to his brothers innocence, this whole thing is bordering on ridiculous.
 
It just seemed strange, ya know? I think your samples were great and really appreciated them, but each element had this "why" factor to it that left me shaking my head. It's not to say that he didn't commit the crime, or that he doesn't belong in jail (I am not here saying any of that), it's just all so strange.

This is purely speculative, so take with an entire shaker of salt.

I think he killed her... although I don't think it down the way that Dassey described, and I don't think that he even had knowledge of the event. I think it happened in the yard... maybe he had her lying on the ground unconscious before he shot her to avoid blood spatter all over the place. I think the police found said bullet, and where keeping it as evidence. I think that law enforcement REALLY wanted to put him away (since he made a fool out of them and had a $36B pending lawsuit), and were unsure if said evidence was good enough to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. Because of this I think that they ran with Dassey's confession, and decided to beef up their case by planting said bullet in the garage to validate Dassey's story (and validate the bullet's location). I think that the prosecutors and Dassey's original public defendant were in cahouts (sp?) and tried to get a second confession to really seal the deal. (although that part is a stretch as I feel his lawyer and hired investigator were idiots).

:removes tinfoil hat:
 
This is purely speculative, so take with an entire shaker of salt.

I think he killed her... although I don't think it down the way that Dassey described, and I don't think that he even had knowledge of the event. I think it happened in the yard... maybe he had her lying on the ground unconscious before he shot her to avoid blood spatter all over the place. I think the police found said bullet, and where keeping it as evidence. I think that law enforcement REALLY wanted to put him away (since he made a fool out of them and had a $36B pending lawsuit), and were unsure if said evidence was good enough to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. Because of this I think that they ran with Dassey's confession, and decided to beef up their case by planting said bullet in the garage to validate Dassey's story (and validate the bullet's location). I think that the prosecutors and Dassey's original public defendant were in cahouts (sp?) and tried to get a second confession to really seal the deal. (although that part is a stretch as I feel his lawyer and hired investigator were idiots).

:removes tinfoil hat:
The lawsuit was settled before the Dassey confession or the bullet was found
 
there is certainly a lot of strange involved in the story. I enjoyed the heck out of the series.

Same here. I'd love to see them find more and share it -- Even one sided, it was intriguing the whole way.

...and terrifying
 
Same here. I'd love to see them find more and share it -- Even one sided, it was intriguing the whole way.

...and terrifying

what's terrifying to me is that people seem to be ok with a man being in prison for the rest of his life who they think probably should be there. the standard to convict was so degraded in this that it should keep all of us awake at night. wake mentions all of this physical evidence, and yet there are questions about very piece and inconsistencies and doubt. we should always strive to render not guilty unless we have no other choice and no doubt. I think he did it, or knows who did it and helped clean up and cover up. but he should not be in jail, and I've read commentary from the other side.


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what's terrifying to me is that people seem to be ok with a man being in prison for the rest of his life who they think probably should be there. the standard to convict was so degraded in this that it should keep all of us awake at night. wake mentions all of this physical evidence, and yet there are questions about very piece and inconsistencies and doubt. we should always strive to render not guilty unless we have no other choice and no doubt. I think he did it, or knows who did it and helped clean up and cover up. but he should not be in jail, and I've read commentary from the other side.


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how can you say I think he did it, but shouldn't be in jail in the same sentence? So what should've we done? Prosecuted him differently with a better likelihood of the same guilty verdict?

as someone not 50 miles from this case, I sleep very nicely at night knowing two things. He's in jail because a jury convicted him for what they believe he did and that there has never been one single additional piece of evidence that the county has done whatever everyone says they did to anyone else.

Its just one additional piece of firewood on this bashing law enforcement bonfire we are obsessed with these days.
 
With the standard held by some in this thread, it's amazing there are any murder convictions in this country.
 
Making A Murderer (Spoilers)

With the standard held by some in this thread, it's amazing there are any murder convictions in this country.

It is amazing.
It's also amazing to think there wasn't a certain level of misconduct on these investigations and trials.

Due process is something guaranteed, and a fair and speedy trial is also a guarantee.

Not saying he did or did not do it, but I do know that there were some extremely questionable tactics and findings in the investigation.

You're saying that all that don't and shouldn't matter, this is as disturbing as the conduct of the departments involved.
 
It is amazing.
It's also amazing to think there wasn't a certain level of misconduct on these investigations and trials.

Due process is something guaranteed, and a fair and speedy trial is also a guarantee.

Not saying he did or did not due it, but I do know that there were some extremely questionable tactics and findings in the investigation.

You're saying that all that don't and shouldn't matter, this is as disturbing as the conduct of the departments involved.

Avery was denied due process? His trial wasn't fair?

Everybody aledging that evidence was planted or that DNA was tampered with have no proof.

I will give it to the filmmakers here, they've done a wonderful job of creating a narrative to make the Manitowoc County sheriff's department and the Calumet County District Attorney seem corrupt and the villains.

#ScumBagSociopathFelonLivesMatter
 
Blu tell me about the Manitowoc police departments role in the investigation, after it was determined that it was a conflict of interest.
If you tell me they obeyed the order, I'll STFU.

So....?
What about the Manitowoc's police department's role in the investigation?

It was non existent, and/or ONLY providing implements or equipment correct?
 
Blu tell me about the Manitowoc police departments role in the investigation, after it was determined that it was a conflict of interest.
If you tell me they obeyed the order, I'll STFU.

So....?
What about the Manitowoc's police department's role in the investigation?

It was non existent, and/or ONLY providing implements or equipment correct?
The Manitowoc Sheriff's department role has never been explained, but i'm guessing in the hunt to find the killer, Calumet county used any resources it could in the search for evidence.. Nothing else has ever been provided.
 
The Manitowoc Sheriff's department role has never been explained, but i'm guessing in the hunt to find the killer, Calumet county used any resources it could in the search for evidence.. Nothing else has ever been provided.

Who is listed in the court documents as finding the bullet, the Key, the Blood in the vehicle, the Sweat DNA, who interviewed Brendan?

Let me help, the NON participating Manitowoc police department.
I believe Lenk was his name...
 
AND to clarify...
I don't care if he did or didn't do it (I tend to think he did) but I do believe the evidence, coerced convictions, and all that should not be allowed as evidence, and the preponderance of evidence remaining should be enough to convict him in a new trial.
Also, I am not sure that there was not juror tampering in this case, being that initially only 4 jurors voted guilty...
There were in fact jurors who have come forward questioning if there lives would be "Difficult" if Avery was found innocent.

Just too much weird stuff going on in the case...
 
what's terrifying to me is that people seem to be ok with a man being in prison for the rest of his life who they think probably should be there. the standard to convict was so degraded in this that it should keep all of us awake at night. wake mentions all of this physical evidence, and yet there are questions about very piece and inconsistencies and doubt. we should always strive to render not guilty unless we have no other choice and no doubt. I think he did it, or knows who did it and helped clean up and cover up. but he should not be in jail, and I've read commentary from the other side.

This is where I stand. People can make the comment all they want about the presentation being one sided... Until the other side is presented with genuine fact and explanation on all the holes presented, I think your opinion is entirely sensible.

how can you say I think he did it, but shouldn't be in jail in the same sentence? So what should've we done? Prosecuted him differently with a better likelihood of the same guilty verdict?

as someone not 50 miles from this case, I sleep very nicely at night knowing two things. He's in jail because a jury convicted him for what they believe he did and that there has never been one single additional piece of evidence that the county has done whatever everyone says they did to anyone else.

Its just one additional piece of firewood on this bashing law enforcement bonfire we are obsessed with these days.

I am sure many said the same thing when they put away Avery in 1985, while Allen was out free and continuing to rape women.

With the standard held by some in this thread, it's amazing there are any murder convictions in this country.

This does nothing for the conversation (and has already been said for what it's worth). Why even bother?

The Manitowoc Sheriff's department role has never been explained, but i'm guessing in the hunt to find the killer, Calumet county used any resources it could in the search for evidence.. Nothing else has ever been provided.

There was admittedly no hunt for a killer. There was, however, a hunt for Stephen Avery.... And then a hunt for evidence against him... And irregular methods of search... and delayed (and improbable) findings.
 
anyone see the interview with his ex-fiance Jodi?
 
Since the documentary has been released?? Hopefully it's on youtube.

I think it aired last night. I didn't watch it. But from what I read she calls him a monster, says he's not innocent.
 
Since the documentary has been released?? Hopefully it's on youtube.
I think it aired last night. I didn't watch it. But from what I read she calls him a monster, says he's not innocent.



The plot thickens hahaha! She's as whacked as the rest of them.
 
She claims abuse after the fact but she violated probation and a judges orders to see him?!?!?

She's as crazy as a shithouse rat! Then again, so is everyone else involved.
 
what's terrifying to me is that people seem to be ok with a man being in prison for the rest of his life who they think probably should be there. the standard to convict was so degraded in this that it should keep all of us awake at night. wake mentions all of this physical evidence, and yet there are questions about very piece and inconsistencies and doubt. we should always strive to render not guilty unless we have no other choice and no doubt. I think he did it, or knows who did it and helped clean up and cover up. but he should not be in jail, and I've read commentary from the other side.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
If her burned body wasn't found on his property, his sweat DNA wasn't found inside the latch, her DNA wasn't found on the bullet that came front his gun, if he hadn't called multiple times requesting her, if he hadn't called her that day three times - twice hiding his number, etc., I might be a little more concerned about his civil liberties. People, think about that stuff for a few seconds. You can eliminate all the other suspect evidence and you are still left with a single conclusion: the murderer is behind bars.
 
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