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2017 USGA Distance Report

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KingVeo said:
https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/articles/2018/03/2017-distance-report.html


Some good stuff in there. Interesting that the web.com tour players are averaging 10-15 yards further than the PGA tour players. Anyone have any insight on why this would be the case (perhaps the courses they are playing?) or are we looking at a new generation of players where 300+ yard drives are the expectation?
Click to expand...

Was listening to a podcast a couple weeks ago to someone that had played on both the web.com and PGA Tours, and they said it had to do with the courses and then needing to dial back and get in the fairway more on the PGA.


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Statistically speaking, there are models that show Web players need to focus most on distance to give themselves a chance to make the jump to the TOUR. Everything becomes a putting contest then -- which has always been the case, but is even moreso in the Strokes Gained era.
 
KingVeo said:
https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/articles/2018/03/2017-distance-report.html


Some good stuff in there. Interesting that the web.com tour players are averaging 10-15 yards further than the PGA tour players. Anyone have any insight on why this would be the case (perhaps the courses they are playing?) or are we looking at a new generation of players where 300+ yard drives are the expectation?
Click to expand...

Based on the winning scores you see on the Web.com tour and then what the players being promoted would shoot then vs now on the PGA Tour, they're not quite playing the same courses or the same style of golf.
 
KingVeo said:
https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/articles/2018/03/2017-distance-report.html


Some good stuff in there. Interesting that the web.com tour players are averaging 10-15 yards further than the PGA tour players. Anyone have any insight on why this would be the case (perhaps the courses they are playing?) or are we looking at a new generation of players where 300+ yard drives are the expectation?
Click to expand...

It is interesting that the Web.com Tour is higher than the PGA Tour, but it's been the case in all but 1 year the past 2 decades, so not strange by any means. Could be a number of things including the type of player on the tour (lacking short game to make PGA) or the type of hole the shot is measured on (difficulty of the course, etc).

Main takeaway: I find it absolutely hilarious that this report finds that Men's tour driving distance has increased 2.2% since 2003, and the outlier in distance gain being the Web.com Tour is 10 yards in 14 years.

So, Jack, explain to me why rolling the ball back 20% will help golf when that would put PGA tour drives around present day LPGA levels*!?


*according to my math of 293*.80=235
 
tpluff said:
It is interesting that the Web.com Tour is higher than the PGA Tour, but it's been the case in all but 1 year the past 2 decades, so not strange by any means. Could be a number of things including the type of player on the tour (lacking short game to make PGA) or the type of hole the shot is measured on (difficulty of the course, etc).

Main takeaway: I find it absolutely hilarious that this report finds that driving distance has increased 2.2% since 2003, and the outlier in distance gain being the Web.com Tour is 10 yards in 14 years.

So, Jack, explain to me why rolling the ball back 20% will help golf when that would put PGA tour drives around present day LPGA levels*!?


*according to my math of 293*.80=235
Click to expand...

There's one theory I've heard that at some point a player will need to average 300+ yards off the tee to even compete on the TOUR, statistically speaking. That's a substantial jump, and would negate the ability of players like Zach Johnson, Luke Donald, Jim Furyk, and other shorter hitters.
 
golfunfiltered said:
There's one theory I've heard that at some point a player will need to average 300+ yards off the tee to even compete on the TOUR, statistically speaking. That's a substantial jump, and would negate the ability of players like Zach Johnson, Luke Donald, Jim Furyk, and other shorter hitters.
Click to expand...

If the trend continues, I don't doubt that the average will get to 300+ yards unless something stops it. The players are working out more than ever with programs backed by science and we have better ways to determine the optimal equipment now than we did 20+ years ago, which could be contributing to the distance gain too.

That being said, those who fail to adapt will die off.

Also of note: ZJ this season is averaging 292 yards and Luke Donald is 1 yard behind him at 291 yards. While that ranks them in the 140s on the PGA tour, it doesn't put them far away at all from the avg driving distance according to this report. PGA tour is won around the greens and seeing as Luke has 3 top 10s in the past 2 years, he might be on the way out already. Stats can tell any story you want, making that fully disclosed.
 
tpluff said:
If the trend continues, I don't doubt that the average will get to 300+ yards unless something stops it. The players are working out more than ever with programs backed by science and we have better ways to determine the optimal equipment now than we did 20+ years ago, which could be contributing to the distance gain too.

That being said, those who fail to adapt will die off.

Also of note: ZJ this season is averaging 292 yards and Luke Donald is 1 yard behind him at 291 yards. While that ranks them in the 140s on the PGA tour, it doesn't put them far away at all from the avg driving distance according to this report. PGA tour is won around the greens and seeing as Luke has 3 top 10s in the past 2 years, he might be on the way out already. Stats can tell any story you want, making that fully disclosed.
Click to expand...

You got that right!

End of the day, everything is relative to the population as a whole. My concern is something other than score will eventually limit the talent pool on TOUR (in this case, distance), when it should be the other way around. Courses are adjusting to a metric that should be secondary.
 
golfunfiltered said:
You got that right!

End of the day, everything is relative to the population as a whole. My concern is something other than score will eventually limit the talent pool on TOUR (in this case, distance), when it should be the other way around. Courses are adjusting to a metric that should be secondary.
Click to expand...

You make a great point there, Adam. I'm sure those short hitters love showing up to a US Open and seeing they have to play a handful of 500 yard par 4s. The issue is how do courses adjust properly to the changes in those metrics so they do not outcast some of the players in the field. This might lend itself to some studies being done and coming up with a variety of theories and the effects of the changes, but I doubt that will happen.
 
golfunfiltered said:
You got that right!

End of the day, everything is relative to the population as a whole. My concern is something other than score will eventually limit the talent pool on TOUR (in this case, distance), when it should be the other way around. Courses are adjusting to a metric that should be secondary.
Click to expand...

Courses decided that distance was the only defense they had. So players and equipment keep getting longer. There are other options out there to defend a course. Narrow fairways, tough green complexes all provide defense and aren’t utilized nearly well enough IMO.
 
dazeedmonds said:
Courses decided that distance was the only defense they had. So players and equipment keep getting longer. There are other options out there to defend a course. Narrow fairways, tough green complexes all provide defense and aren’t utilized nearly well enough IMO.
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Because modern course designers are lazy. Nicklaus included. Create a design that makes the player think? Nah, just back it up 100 yards further than planned and call it a day.

Love the PGA of America's response to this so far. "Based on the information we have seen, we are highly skeptical that rolling back the golf ball in whole or part will be in the best interest of the sport and our collective efforts to grow the game. Our nearly 29,000 PGA professionals would be at the forefront of implementing this potential roll back, so we will be polling them this week to fully understand their perspective, especially on what it would mean for the vast majority of the golfers they serve. "
 
I don't understand how this is even a debate. Just grow the freaking rough and make it a HAZARD again. Until the Pros are whining about it, it isn't long enough.

That move alone would put all the emphasis back on accuracy. Heck we have players aiming for the rough to get a better angle at some stops (Mexico) which tells me all I need to know.
 
Grow the rough, yeah, but grow the fairways too for the men's professional tours. Take away those 50+ yard bounces. How many of you guys get that at your home courses?

You could even make the claim that it is more environmentally responsible to keep fairways longer.


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Best players in the world hit what, 8-10 fairways a round? Grow the rough, stop trimming back tree limbs that encroach fairways, green complex's need to be more difficult than they are now. An example of a track that could be intimidating is where they just had WGC in Mexico. With elevation I think it only played 6,800 yards but saw a bunch of long irons off the tee which I love seeing. It also had narrow corridors for tee balls and approach shots. Greens that a lot of players struggle getting proper read and pace. You can't stop the evolution of humans getting stronger but please require more thought and finesse for the best players in the world.
 
Growing the rough won't have as much an impact as you'd suspect when players can fly everything.
 
ArmyGolf said:
I don't understand how this is even a debate. Just grow the freaking rough and make it a HAZARD again. Until the Pros are whining about it, it isn't long enough.

That move alone would put all the emphasis back on accuracy. Heck we have players aiming for the rough to get a better angle at some stops (Mexico) which tells me all I need to know.
Click to expand...

Absolutely agree. It reminds me of Erin Hills last year--they cut the fescue during the week of the US Open and then were surprised that players posted record low scores. What did you think was going to happen!? If you can't hit the fairway then you shouldn't be rewarded with a decent shot. I played Harbour Town a few weeks ago and it was not a long course by any stretch but you got penalized on everything you did wrong within 160 yards. We need more course designs like this.
 
Bucketsofjoy said:
Grow the rough, yeah, but grow the fairways too for the men's professional tours. Take away those 50+ yard bounces. How many of you guys get that at your home courses?

You could even make the claim that it is more environmentally responsible to keep fairways longer.


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Click to expand...

Agreed. 100% agreed. These guys pick up so much yardage in firm and fast conditions just on release alone. Just water the fairways the week of, that's all you'll need to do.
 
golfunfiltered said:
Growing the rough won't have as much an impact as you'd suspect when players can fly everything.
Click to expand...
I strongly disagree.

Yes, when DJ pipes one down the middle the rough has no effect on him for that hole. But when he misses the fairway by a couple yards in the sort of rough I'm talking about - making par is going to be a long shot.

Currently, hitting the fairway is a mere suggestion, and not a single player on Tour thinks making par is out of the question once they've missed a fairway.
 
ArmyGolf said:
I strongly disagree.

Yes, when DJ pipes one down the middle the rough has no effect on him for that hole. But when he misses the fairway by a couple yards in the sort of rough I'm talking about - making par is going to be a long shot.

Currently, hitting the fairway is a mere suggestion, and not a single player on Tour thinks making par is out of the question once they've missed a fairway.
Click to expand...
If simplu missing the fairway took par out or the equation, I would find that course mighty boring to watch, and would never play a course like that.
 
Wake said:
If simplu missing the fairway took par out or the equation, I would find that course mighty boring to watch, and would never play a course like that.
Click to expand...
I understand that sentiment. But we can't complain (golf fans/institutions as a whole) that courses are being made obsolete by distance when we are not giving a deterrent to bomb and gouge golf. Bunkers are so perfectly maintained that they aren't a hazard for those guys either. Resort rough doesn't even phase local scratch golfers, let alone the PGA players.

If one Player can drive it 50 yards farther and be straighter than another Player, he deserves to have a massive advantage. But right now I don't think accuracy is at a high enough premium on Tour.
 
Also, how much time did they spend talking to or researching amateurs?
 
ArmyGolf said:
I don't understand how this is even a debate. Just grow the freaking rough and make it a HAZARD again. Until the Pros are whining about it, it isn't long enough.

That move alone would put all the emphasis back on accuracy. Heck we have players aiming for the rough to get a better angle at some stops (Mexico) which tells me all I need to know.
Click to expand...
I agree Curtis.

They could also make the courses more challenging by making the bunkers play like hazards as well. If they would quit making the sand on the sides of the bunkers so compact, the ball wouldn't roll back to the middle of the bunker where the sand is perfect manicured. I'd love to see them deal with the plugged balls we get at our course high up in the sides of bunkers.
 
tpluff said:
If the trend continues, I don't doubt that the average will get to 300+ yards unless something stops it. The players are working out more than ever with programs backed by science and we have better ways to determine the optimal equipment now than we did 20+ years ago, which could be contributing to the distance gain too.

That being said, those who fail to adapt will die off.

Also of note: ZJ this season is averaging 292 yards and Luke Donald is 1 yard behind him at 291 yards. While that ranks them in the 140s on the PGA tour, it doesn't put them far away at all from the avg driving distance according to this report. PGA tour is won around the greens and seeing as Luke has 3 top 10s in the past 2 years, he might be on the way out already. Stats can tell any story you want, making that fully disclosed.
Click to expand...

Also keep in mind there is driving distance which is only 2 holes per round and total driving distance which is all no par 3s. The numbers seem to bunch a bit where shorter guys use driver more than longer ones. In reality they are not close in a driver vs driver measuring.
 
The_Dude said:
Best players in the world hit what, 8-10 fairways a round? Grow the rough, stop trimming back tree limbs that encroach fairways, green complex's need to be more difficult than they are now. An example of a track that could be intimidating is where they just had WGC in Mexico. With elevation I think it only played 6,800 yards but saw a bunch of long irons off the tee which I love seeing. It also had narrow corridors for tee balls and approach shots. Greens that a lot of players struggle getting proper read and pace. You can't stop the evolution of humans getting stronger but please require more thought and finesse for the best players in the world.
Click to expand...

Mexico actually played 6250-6600 depending if you are a high ball hitter or not. I mean short hitters used iron off half the tees.
 
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