What's your method(s) of course management??

I start by envisioning the hole from above and finding where all the trouble is that will cost me multiple strokes, like hazards, blocked out shots, huge drop offs on the back of the green when the pin is in the back ect. Don't go in those spots.

If I lay up off the tee then I better have a good reason, ie hazard 250 yards out where a driver would reach it. Doglegs that a drive runs through the fairway and the trees are too tall to cut the corner. If there isn't a reason then take out the driver and swing away. Shorter holes I will choke down with the driver just a touch. I can get the ball closer from 75 yards in the rough than I can from 140 yards in the fairway.

If I am trees and such find the most aggressive line towards the hole with a margin of about 10 feet side to side. If you spend just a little time practicing punch shots you should always be able to advance it a good 100 yards. On the other hand stop trying hero shots where I try to find a hole in the tree canopy that lets me go high and land on the green. My trajectory control just isn't good enough to mess with this

Always shoot for a number 5 yards past the bunker or rough I need to cover on my approach shots, same for back pins just leave 5 yards margin of error from going long. Same rule but 10 yards for hazards that cost you a penalty like water ect.

Don't lay up on par 5's unless I have a good reason. With no landing are issues then get the ball as close to the green as possible. If you think you can get the ball closer with a 100 yard full wedge then a 35 yard feel shot then you are kidding yourself. My misses with my 5 wood off the deck are farther than my misses with my 3 wood so if I can't get there I pull 5 wood. No silly laying up with a 5 iron. The only time I try to leave a full shot might be when the pin is cut close to front with the landing area sloping away enough that I can't stop a 35 yard wedge right away.

Don't leave 25 foot putts short ever. Short can't go in, practice your 5 footers and don't be afraid of the come back putt. The amount of times I three putt is smaller than the amount of times I would have made the putt if I hit it hard enough.

All this is void if I start drinking a little too much.

SHIFTY said:

I found this video really helpful, and have employed it into my game. Saved me countless strokes. The Wall!

[video=youtube;_f9-KLDVCtk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_f9-KLDVCtk[/video]

Click to expand...

Good video..Thanks for sharing that!!!

Stay on the fairway. Stay out of trouble. Overclub then swing easy. Going into the green, determine if it's better to be short or long. Play to my allowances (aim a little left).

ntanygd760 said:

I start by envisioning the hole from above and finding where all the trouble is that will cost me multiple strokes, like hazards, blocked out shots, huge drop offs on the back of the green when the pin is in the back ect. Don't go in those spots.

If I lay up off the tee then I better have a good reason, ie hazard 250 yards out where a driver would reach it. Doglegs that a drive runs through the fairway and the trees are too tall to cut the corner. If there isn't a reason then take out the driver and swing away. Shorter holes I will choke down with the driver just a touch. I can get the ball closer from 75 yards in the rough than I can from 140 yards in the fairway.

If I am trees and such find the most aggressive line towards the hole with a margin of about 10 feet side to side. If you spend just a little time practicing punch shots you should always be able to advance it a good 100 yards. On the other hand stop trying hero shots where I try to find a hole in the tree canopy that lets me go high and land on the green. My trajectory control just isn't good enough to mess with this

Always shoot for a number 5 yards past the bunker or rough I need to cover on my approach shots, same for back pins just leave 5 yards margin of error from going long. Same rule but 10 yards for hazards that cost you a penalty like water ect.

Don't lay up on par 5's unless I have a good reason. With no landing are issues then get the ball as close to the green as possible. If you think you can get the ball closer with a 100 yard full wedge then a 35 yard feel shot then you are kidding yourself. My misses with my 5 wood off the deck are farther than my misses with my 3 wood so if I can't get there I pull 5 wood. No silly laying up with a 5 iron. The only time I try to leave a full shot might be when the pin is cut close to front with the landing area sloping away enough that I can't stop a 35 yard wedge right away.

Don't leave 25 foot putts short ever. Short can't go in, practice your 5 footers and don't be afraid of the come back putt. The amount of times I three putt is smaller than the amount of times I would have made the putt if I hit it hard enough.

All this is void if I start drinking a little too much.

Click to expand...

But some of what you speak of comes from the fact that your a 4 handicap. You simply are more successful with many more shots vs mid and especially high cappers. Laying up on that par5 with an iron (even if resulting in an approach that is farther away) is simply going to be something that a mid or high capper has the best chance at making vs hitting a his 3 or 5wood to get it 30yrds closer. He will generally fail at that far more often than not unless the shot is one in which offers enough forgiveness where as missing is not so penalizing. So in a sense what he/she is doing by laying up with an iron is playing to his current best chance shot and/or his strength imo. Sure, being 30 yrds closer is always better but not if getting there successfully in the first place is only rarely going to happen for him. Of course one does have to find some happy medium. We do have to move forward at a respectable clip with each shot to score well I understand. But that happy medium imo is very different for everyone based on ones overall ability and/or success rate at making any given shot. When the rate is minimal for a given shot for a given player, its of course going to hurt him more often than it helps him if he takes it. That imo is not good management. As one improves he/she will find more and more shots creeping into the bag which he/she will start to then be able make more often. I feel that one will always have enough opportunities when risks are lower where he/she can take shots he otherwise shouldn't and through time get better at them. And ones managing decisions will then change accordingly.

For a mid-to-high handicapper I think some of the battle is looking at the course realistically and not playing for par on every hole. For many people a bogie a hole 89-90 score would be great and if they really played every hole for a bogie giving themselves one extra shot on every hole, they might be far more successful in managing the course than if they always played each hole for a green in regulation and a two putt. There will then be a few holes, or maybe a handful of holes, that may then be realistic par holes. By not feeling like you have to play beyond yourself, I think people are less likely to get in trouble and incur penalties which cause the score to soar. On a long par 4 instead of trying to play a 200-250yrd shot to the green or just short with a wood/hybrid where a high handicapper has a low likelihood chance of success and a greater chance of getting in trouble, take a 6-7 iron and play to the center of the fairway 75-100yrds out and play in from there. If the driver isn't working, then play it safe off the tee to stay in the fairway. Choose clubs that you are comfortable with so the swing thought is never "I've got to hit this hard" or "I've got to hit this perfectly" or "I hope I hit this well" - swing thought should always be "no problem". When I tend to hit a bad shot or blow a hole, it is almost always when I am "going for something" that I realistically shouldn't be going for....going for a pin when I should be playing for the middle of the green or hitting a flop shot from off the green to try to stop close instead of taking my lumps and just getting on the green even if it is 20 feet past or going at that 225yrd shot to the green over water instead of laying up, etc..... For instance, I probably hit driver off 13 of the 14 par 4s/5s on my home course but if I was playing for score, I'd probably hit driver 9-10 times only and 3 wood or hybrid for the others - just a smarter play to avoid trouble.

Of course there are times to be more aggressive and sometimes more aggressive play is more fun and that's what it is all about at times. But, at least for scoring, playing within your current game is going to lead to less mistakes, fewer penalties and a better score.

SHIFTY said:

I found this video really helpful, and have employed it into my game. Saved me countless strokes. The Wall!

[video=youtube;_f9-KLDVCtk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_f9-KLDVCtk[/video]

Click to expand...

Thank you for sharing this. I really like the visuals. I have gotten away from course management lately and my scores have suffered. This looks like a good way to get back to it.

My course management is "I didn't pay to lay-up."

Find what my swing is doing on the range, and until it shows me other wise...I play the percentages on the course to meet my current swing. I try to keep my misses in the positive space on the course. So, if I'm fading the ball off the tee, then I'll play up the left side of the fairway, to a degree. This way, if I DO hit it straight, it should stay on the left edge of the fairway. If it continues to fade, then I'm in the middle to middle right....or....at worse, right edge on a bigger miss.

Where do I want to hit my second shot from. Sure I can rip a driver on all the par 4/5 but is it going to leave me an uncomfortable yardage to the green. When hitting into the green I usually aim for the middle and avoid going for sucker pins.

Tee the ball on the same side as trouble and aim away.
Aim for middle of the green unless there is no trouble.
Leave the hero shots for someone else.

For me, it is key to hit good tee shots and hit greens. I setup most holes looking from green back to the tee and figuring where my best shot of getting to green is on the hole. From there, I play the shot and try to give myself a good angle for the next shot. Local knowledge of where to miss is always a great help if you can get it.

I always aim for the right hand fringe at my home course, knowing it always trickles down to the hole on that side. I have seen many players hit great shots at the pin only to be off the green chipping to a tight pin.

I don't really have a method, but I'm trying hard to learn through trial and error. I've gotten much better at punch shots from under trees, but over the past two weeks I've hit at least two that put me in trouble across the green because I took too much club for the safe distance I had.

I'm trying to aim for the center of greens more often, but make mistakes occasionally. I hit towards the center of a green last weekend with my ball below my feet and it cut into a right green side bunker. I need to be more thorough when deciding where to aim and what the resulting shot will likely be.

I also need to put more thought into short game shots - like aim for the flag or short so that there is room for roll out (or even long if the green is sloped toward me enough. And I need to give my putts a chance. I typically miss short and would rather give myself a shot at making the putt, even if it means missing past the hole.

As a fellow high handicapper, I MUST keep the ball in play. penalties mean strokes!
Another thing I need to do is cut 3 putts.

Any shot that is not "useable" meaning a mishit that still travels a decent distance hurts as well.

Hit my driver as far as I can hit it. If I can hit anything like an 8 iron or shorter onto the green I'm good.

As a high handicap, rules #1, 2, and 3 are all "keep it in the short grass".

I would argue that it's impossible to play too conservative if you're a high handicap--there are zero shots where you need to "go for it" in a risk/reward situation, because you're almost certainly understating the risk.

I learned that lesson in practice on my local course--I went out one day and decided that I was going to just punch out to the fairway any time I was in the trees, lay up to any hazard if there was any doubt I could carry it. It turned out to be a net gain--I was shaving more strokes by hitting out of fairways and getting halfway decent aim and distance control than I was gaining with punches and lay-ups.

I still play that way in just about every situation. I can only think of one case where I intentionally went for it on a risky shot--a par 5 at THP Legacy where my opponent hit a great shot to a green and stuck it fairly close. If I wasn't on or very near the green after a long approach shot over water, I was out of the hole because there was no way he was 3-putting from where he was at. I had nothing to lose at that point, so I went for it--and ended up with a weird side-hill lie in the greenside rough. I flubbed the chip from there and he won the hole, but laying up would have been silly on my part--there's no way I'd make a 50yd approach shot and one-putt. At least if I was on the green I had a chance for a two-putt to halve.

So yeah, short grass and play conservative until you're a better-than-bogey golfer at least. I'd say probably even then being conservative will pay off--I've seen plenty of single and low-double digit handicaps screw up rounds by going for it one too many times.

rollin said:

But some of what you speak of comes from the fact that your a 4 handicap. You simply are more successful with many more shots vs mid and especially high cappers. Laying up on that par5 with an iron (even if resulting in an approach that is farther away) is simply going to be something that a mid or high capper has the best chance at making vs hitting a his 3 or 5wood to get it 30yrds closer. He will generally fail at that far more often than not unless the shot is one in which offers enough forgiveness where as missing is not so penalizing. So in a sense what he/she is doing by laying up with an iron is playing to his current best chance shot and/or his strength imo. Sure, being 30 yrds closer is always better but not if getting there successfully in the first place is only rarely going to happen for him. Of course one does have to find some happy medium. We do have to move forward at a respectable clip with each shot to score well I understand. But that happy medium imo is very different for everyone based on ones overall ability and/or success rate at making any given shot. When the rate is minimal for a given shot for a given player, its of course going to hurt him more often than it helps him if he takes it. That imo is not good management. As one improves he/she will find more and more shots creeping into the bag which he/she will start to then be able make more often. I feel that one will always have enough opportunities when risks are lower where he/she can take shots he otherwise shouldn't and through time get better at them. And ones managing decisions will then change accordingly.

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You are right about all of that for sure.

Drumdog said:

Tee the ball on the same side as trouble and aim away.
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while I agree and understand the logic, there is often a problem with this and its usually proportionally worse as the cap goes up. The idea of course is good but the result is often not good because what happens to many is that they not only end up aiming away from the trouble but also swing away from it which often ends up with the ball turning directly into the trouble. Hence the expression - "that lake (or oob, or woods) on this hole is like a magnet".....because it often has to do with swing path and not necessarily the aim. Lets say water is on the right and so they not only aim away from it but unfortunately also swing away from it too causing an overly out-to-in swing and of course what happens is that they end up over fading or slicing into the darn water. Again -"its like a magnet" lol......Same happens from the other way too. I was very often and sometimes still am guilty of this too. Its just a natural tendency to do this imo. The right intention but the wrong approach.

What I have done to help this is to just aim straight but actually swing slightly towards the trouble and (if swung correctly) the ball will move away from the trouble. I say "swung correctly" because regardless of what we do, we still have to swing good enough. Without a decent ball strike none of anything we discuss in this thread really matters. But anyway I think a lot of mid and certainly high cappers can often help themselves by actually doing the opposite. Well.....not really opposite so much as to fight that urge to swing away from trouble. Aim away and swing away are two different things. One we want and the other is trouble, but its often so easy to overlook that fact when one is faced with such a shot. Its a mistake imo that's been very often made by many of us many times.

DGord said:

For a mid-to-high handicapper I think some of the battle is looking at the course realistically and not playing for par on every hole. For many people a bogie a hole 89-90 score would be great and if they really played every hole for a bogie giving themselves one extra shot on every hole, they might be far more successful in managing the course than if they always played each hole for a green in regulation and a two putt. There will then be a few holes, or maybe a handful of holes, that may then be realistic par holes. By not feeling like you have to play beyond yourself, I think people are less likely to get in trouble and incur penalties which cause the score to soar. On a long par 4 instead of trying to play a 200-250yrd shot to the green or just short with a wood/hybrid where a high handicapper has a low likelihood chance of success and a greater chance of getting in trouble, take a 6-7 iron and play to the center of the fairway 75-100yrds out and play in from there. If the driver isn't working, then play it safe off the tee to stay in the fairway. Choose clubs that you are comfortable with so the swing thought is never "I've got to hit this hard" or "I've got to hit this perfectly" or "I hope I hit this well" - swing thought should always be "no problem". When I tend to hit a bad shot or blow a hole, it is almost always when I am "going for something" that I realistically shouldn't be going for....going for a pin when I should be playing for the middle of the green or hitting a flop shot from off the green to try to stop close instead of taking my lumps and just getting on the green even if it is 20 feet past or going at that 225yrd shot to the green over water instead of laying up, etc..... For instance, I probably hit driver off 13 of the 14 par 4s/5s on my home course but if I was playing for score, I'd probably hit driver 9-10 times only and 3 wood or hybrid for the others - just a smarter play to avoid trouble.

Of course there are times to be more aggressive and sometimes more aggressive play is more fun and that's what it is all about at times. But, at least for scoring, playing within your current game is going to lead to less mistakes, fewer penalties and a better score.

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Good post and I would agree. But I think if one is playing correct tees for his capable distances he should (with some possible exceptions) and on most golf courses be able to par most any hole before he plays it so long as his shots are executed decently. With that said, if one is 200 - 250 out on a par4 approach, in general chances are he didn't execute his tee shot well enough. So now its a matter of looking at what he has left, where he's coming from to do it, and what it looks like where he wants go with it. Trying now to hit the green from 220 from the rough all because he wants to make up for that poorer tee shot is where one imo has to now manage before making things worse. The lie, the current spot, whats ahead, the club to use, and how forgiving is the shot? When any one or a combo of those things will cause failure more than success for that player (if he wants to manage for best score more often) then he must imo take his medicine and play for bogey from that point. So I don't think its a matter of playing for bogey from the start of each hole. I think we can and should start each hole like we are attempting par (and that in itself can usually be obtained even if on the conservative side) but then of course adjust based on the outcome of the shots we took as they happen.

rollin said:

I think we can and should start each hole like we are attempting par (and that in itself can usually be obtained even if on the conservative side) but then of course adjust based on the outcome of the shots we took as they happen.

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That's true, but making that switch--hitting a bad tee shot and thinking "ok, not par now, bogie" can be tough. Some people want to beat themselves up for flubbing the tee shot if they started with the expectation of par. If instead they start with the expectation of bogie, it means every hole basically has a built-in mulligan. Bad tee shot? No biggie. Missed a putt? No biggie.

From a mental game standpoint, I think it's better for somebody that shoots in the 100s to just add one to par on their scorecard and make that their new par. I did that, and it helped me not feel like I sucked at golf so badly to have an attainable goal. Plus there are built-in rewards--pars feel like birdies, and the rare birdie feels like an eagle.

My mentality is basically "know where to miss" at all times. If you're pin hunting, know if you can miss long, short, right or left.

Learning how to score will improve course management IMO

Learn the average yardage of your clubs, not the pure strikes that go 10-15 yards further and your most regular miss to keep balls in play. Shoot for bogeys on more difficult holes and every shot you execute from the tee to the pin you have a better chance at making a par or even a birdie. If you have 220 left to a pin on a par 5 instead of hitting a long club, hit two short ones to get home or play shorter off the tee, whatever leaves you the best chance to stay on the short grass. You don't always have to pull a driver on par 4/5's. Hitting into greens if you're between clubs, go shorter, it's usually less trouble being short and a more accurate club, unless there is forced carry over water of course.

I am still learning to "dial it down"......don't go for the HERO shot that you might pull off 1 in a 100 times, there is no shame in taking your medicine and keeping the ball in play, at least that way the worst you make is bogey and not double or triple or worse.

It's still a work in progress though

Dave Alvarado said:

That's true, but making that switch--hitting a bad tee shot and thinking "ok, not par now, bogie" can be tough. Some people want to beat themselves up for flubbing the tee shot if they started with the expectation of par. If instead they start with the expectation of bogie, it means every hole basically has a built-in mulligan. Bad tee shot? No biggie. Missed a putt? No biggie.

From a mental game standpoint, I think it's better for somebody that shoots in the 100s to just add one to par on their scorecard and make that their new par. I did that, and it helped me not feel like I sucked at golf so badly to have an attainable goal. Plus there are built-in rewards--pars feel like birdies, and the rare birdie feels like an eagle.

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To be honest, I don't really think about what I should score as I stand on each tee box. I simply think about making my shot that I should make. Not the one I would like to wish make, or only have a slim chance to make but the shot I should make and get to or near enough to what I would call position "A" (FOR ME) and If I make that shot and then do the same with the second I will (by default) simply be in position to par the hole and even have a chance at bird on occasion. And all that without ever thinking I am playing for bogey or par or anything but instead just simply playing my game one shot at a time. If I do that well enough there rarely is ever a hole that I cant par. Of course we (or I) don't do it well enough most of the times and so I don't par most holes and is why I am not a scratch player and far from it. The best way I can manage to try to have lower scoring as often as possible is to just take one shot at a time, make a smart decision for that given shot, and then try to execute that shot. Par, bogey, whatever is sort of irrelevant because I can only make the next best chance shot based on where I currently am situated. Playing to strengths and not weaknesses will afford me more opportunities to be in better positions for better shots more often. Therefore more often chances at lower scores than higher ones regardless if that's a par or a bogey or whatever.

No matter how poorly I may be playing that round, I will generally still be in even worse positions even more so by playing to weaknesses and lower percentage shots vs the other way. Bottom line is that there is (with rare exceptions) a chance for par while standing on most every tee box. But one doesn't have to think about that and simply just try to make your well chosen shot which hardly ever has to be any hero or low percentage shot. Just try to execute your shot and on the holes where you do execute the pars will come and so will the occasional chance for bird without ever thinking about par or bogey while on the tee box. Screw up the tee shot and now its imo not to think bogey but simply think whats the next best chance shot I can and should make regardless. Do that through each hole and more often the scores (whatever they are) will be lower vs if one tries to make harder shots and lower percentage shots in order to make up for the poorer ones. Whatever you score on that hole it would more often be worse when trying to make shots that are at lower percentage of success. Let the score be whatever it is going to be. Of course I say there has to be some happy medium. We do have to move forward at a reasonable clip with each shot if we can help it. Just how much we can successfully help that imo comes down to ability.

Standing on each tee, I look to identify the problems. If there's water or sand in front of the green, I take one more club and swing smooth. If it doglegs left I get on the left side of the tee box or if it doglegs right I get on the right side of the tee box to tee off. I always pick a target and make sure the target is the last thing I look at prior to pulling the trigger. Think good thoughts like remembering the last good shot I hit with the club I'm getting ready to hit. Be positive, and remember at all times........................it's just a GAME.

One thing I have a problem with is that I tend to play aggressively. There are two kinds of aggressive: stupid aggressive and smart aggressive. Like don't try to hit that insane shot out of the woods between two trees that are six feet apart unless your name is (insert famous pro). Take your medicine and pitch it back to the fairway through the wide gap. However, don't be afraid to hit a low cut or hook between a couple trees with a 6i or hit a high 9i over a tree if you need to rather than chip out to a better position.

Approach shots - aim for the center of the green unless you're in a tournament, trailing and need some miracle shots - then go pin hunting. Or if you're simply having a bad round, then why not challenge the course? Just don't get mad if you miss it.