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Blades Vs Cavity Back

SuperStroke
Tadashi70 said:
I ask all my students what the end game is when it comes to improvement. Just lowering the cap or you want to play professionally or do you just want to stop losing bets to the fellas or do just want to get better? What is your reason what is the end game for you.

I play weekend games with great guys some of which play clubs they shouldn't. And I get the same answer, ' I can't look at that thick top line' I say ok and keep taking their money. The other day one of them showers up with the Apex pros and played such a solid game. He was fit from the grip to the lie angle. He told me, he never knew what he was missing. He didn't give up any feel, shot making and gain trajectory and distance.

I'm not saying you should get apex pros but I am saying as a mid capper, you will benefit more from that type of iron than you will from a blade. And you can get forged GI club so it's the best of both worlds.

I have taught everyone from PGA tour pros to average joes to people that have no business playing golf. A small portion of those student really could play blades and play them well. Three guys on this forum are a few of those people. Most everyone else should be playing GI or SGI clubs.

The TM RSI tours, Srixon 745s, callaway Apex pros, Bridgestone DF iron or CBs are all great GI clubs. The cobra forged tech or the CB Kings also come to mind. I'm sure there are others. But at the end of the day you will play what catches your eye and what you think you can handle. So play what you want and try to have fun.
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Honestly to play the best golf that I can. Plan and simple. I don't bet or gamble so I'm not trying to take any coins off of my buddies. I'm too old for any aspirations of turning pro. Unless it's the senior tour for which I am already old enough to join.

But seriously just improve and play the best that I can for the love of the game. Not to brag or boast. Just pure enjoyment.

Birdies and pars. Get as close to scratch as I physically can. Strive for my own personal best.

If my XR Pro's can lead me there great. They are fairly new and in great shape and we're fitted to my perfectly.

If there is something better. I'm all ears.

Right now the Mizuno MP -5's are at the plate taking their sweet swing for my bag.

I'm have already shortened the distance gap between the MP -5's and the XR Pro's. I was hitting the 8 iron 140-150 range with a club head speed of 80 mph.

But oh boy you better focus. Stay on plane with a good tempo. If you're A game is up. Badabing. Sweetness. 9h my. Pure joy. If not. It'd curtains.

But the XR Pro's let me just shut my eyes and swing for the fence. With only a 5 yard gap between hitting it pure or of the heel or toe.

But so far this debate has opened up my eyes to many different club choices and options I never considered.

So will I ever play to scratch. Who knows. But I know I'm going to die trying and give it my best.



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lightningbolt44 said:
Head weights. Forging quality etc.

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The head weight tolerance I can wrap my head around. But what does "forging quality" mean? Also, what else is there, in regards to the "etc"? I honestly don't know. that's why I asking?
 
blugold said:
The head weight tolerance I can wrap my head around. But what does "forging quality" mean? Also, what else is there, in regards to the "etc"? I honestly don't know. that's why I asking?
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Anything that is manufactured has tolerances ever turn on the club head and so on. Forging quality can mean anything from the type of metal to complexity of the design.

Honestly head weight is the biggest thing I notice for me personally other than that I think most of the JDM interest in the US is mainly because it is something different (notice I say different and not better). Quality clubs are made by all, forged and cast. As has been said everyone should play what they like and what makes them happiest. No end all be all club exists.

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lightningbolt44 said:
Anything that is manufactured has tolerances ever turn on the club head and so on. Forging quality can mean anything from the type of metal to complexity of the design.

Honestly head weight is the biggest thing I notice for me personally other than that I think most of the JDM interest in the US is mainly because it is something different (notice I say different and not better). Quality clubs are made by all, forged and cast. As has been said everyone should play what they like and what makes them happiest. No end all be all club exists.

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Click to expand...

I heavily agree that the largest appeal of JDM clubs here in the states is the rarity factor. The type of metal is easily the biggest factor.
 
Mward said:
Obviously the more expensive, the better it has to be right? /sarcasm
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Cue up the Tim the Tool Man Taylor videos! Hahaha
 
Tadashi70 said:
I ask all my students what the end game is when it comes to improvement. Just lowering the cap or you want to play professionally or do you just want to stop losing bets to the fellas or do just want to get better? What is your reason what is the end game for you.

I play weekend games with great guys some of which play clubs they shouldn't. And I get the same answer, ' I can't look at that thick top line' I say ok and keep taking their money. The other day one of them showers up with the Apex pros and played such a solid game. He was fit from the grip to the lie angle. He told me, he never knew what he was missing. He didn't give up any feel, shot making and gain trajectory and distance.

I'm not saying you should get apex pros but I am saying as a mid capper, you will benefit more from that type of iron than you will from a blade. And you can get forged GI club so it's the best of both worlds.

I have taught everyone from PGA tour pros to average joes to people that have no business playing golf. A small portion of those student really could play blades and play them well. Three guys on this forum are a few of those people. Most everyone else should be playing GI or SGI clubs.

The TM RSI tours, Srixon 745s, callaway Apex pros, Bridgestone DF iron or CBs are all great GI clubs. The cobra forged tech or the CB Kings also come to mind. I'm sure there are others. But at the end of the day you will play what catches your eye and what you think you can handle. So play what you want and try to have fun.
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Great post FK! I'm guilty of playing to much club. But I like that challenge to a certain degree.
 
T2GRN18 said:
Great post FK! I'm guilty of playing to much club. But I like that challenge to a certain degree.
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And I am as well. My swing isn't what it used to be.
 
CF16 may just set me free hahaha
 
Just fitting into a GI set or Players set needs more consideration to fit. Firstly the offset needs to be considered in relation to the swing plane. Then the sole width in relation to the angle of attack/divot.
Some mid hcpers say 7-15 hcp who have developed a fairly decent swing are still playing offset shovels just for the cavity / forgiveness aspect. To these players looking for a step up...but not quite blades, they should look for the same players head design, perhaps a bit more muscle in a slightly smaller perimeter head, but narrower sole and less offset. Their are slim pickings out there, as most have too much offset.
Take a look at Titleist 716 CB. I think designs like these play near to blades, but offer a bit of forgiveness. This would be a closer step to blades, and they blend well with a mixed set. e.g 3-6 players 7-Pw blades. Also there are muscle cavity designs like Z745, Vega VDC-01, Apex Pros, J40's that offer a touch more forgiveness. again focus on sole width and offset
When you look at offset numbers some are listed in imperial, some metric...BIG difference...don't make a mistake if you order without looking at them!
 
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ProZoneGolf said:
Just fitting into a GI set or Players set needs more consideration to fit. Firstly the offset needs to be considered in relation to the swing plane. Then the sole width in relation to the angle of attack/divot.
Some mid hcpers say 7-15 hcp who have developed a fairly decent swing are still playing offset shovels just for the cavity / forgiveness aspect. To these players looking for a step up...but not quite blades, they should look for the same players head design, perhaps a bit more muscle in a slightly smaller perimeter head, but narrower sole and less offset. Their are slim pickings out there, as most have too much offset.
Take a look at Titleist 716 CB, Vega VDC-01's. I think designs like these play near to blades, but offer a bit of forgiveness. This would be a closer step to blades, and they blend well with a mixed set. e.g 3-6 players 7-Pw blades.
When you look at offset numbers some are listed in imperial, some metric...BIG difference...don't make a mistake if you order without looking at them!
Click to expand...
Yes the offset is what turns me off to most SGI sets. Which while offering the forgiveness my handicap requires, turn into hooking machines with my swing plane and release pattern.

So to my eyes the slight offset or better yet clubs without any offset look perfect. The thin blades and narrow soles don't strike fear in my heart as the excessive degree of offset in some clubs I have seen on the market.

This is one of my concerns with the new Apex CF16. It appears to have a touch more offset than the XR Pro's. And the Apex Pro, which have less offset aren't very forgiving when compared to the XR Pro's or the Apex CF16.

So I will investigate a list of cavity Back irons with minimal offsets. This is a list I have never seen. In fact some companies omit listing the offset of their clubs in the specs technical report.

For any player with a tendency to hook the ball, such a list would be priceless. I realize 90% if golfers may be slicers, but that still leave 10% of a 100 million golfers world wide who suffer from hooking the ball.

And believe me we could use as much help as any other golfer.

Jmtc

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Johan185 said:
But oh boy you better focus. Stay on plane with a good tempo. If you're A game is up. Badabing. Sweetness. 9h my. Pure joy. If not. It'd curtains.

But the XR Pro's let me just shut my eyes and swing for the fence. With only a 5 yard gap between hitting it pure or of the heel or toe.
Click to expand...

we often hear that kind of argument for blades and I get it, to a point. But what if you were able to put the same amount of effort and focus when using the more forgiving iron? don't you think it would help you score better?

I'm not trying to convince you of anything, I am just wondering what it would do to one's game.
 
Johan185 said:
Honestly to play the best golf that I can. Plan and simple. I don't bet or gamble so I'm not trying to take any coins off of my buddies. I'm too old for any aspirations of turning pro. Unless it's the senior tour for which I am already old enough to join.

But seriously just improve and play the best that I can for the love of the game. Not to brag or boast. Just pure enjoyment.

Birdies and pars. Get as close to scratch as I physically can. Strive for my own personal best.
Click to expand...
What does this really mean to you? Is it the number on the scorecard or is it the number of times you strike the ball wonderfully? There's no wrong answer. This question about forged and blades come up a lot and usually people say some variation of what you said, and that's great. But then we often see statements like this
Johan185 said:
But the XR Pro's let me just shut my eyes and swing for the fence. With only a 5 yard gap between hitting it pure or of the heel or toe.
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and I get confused because a 5 yard gap between good and bad shots is the type of thing that would directly lead to more birdies and pars.

Again, it's awesome to have a goal of being a pure ball striker. I sometimes wonder if folks really understand what they mean when they talk about being the beast they can be (ball striker vs scorer).
 
MPlefty said:
we often hear that kind of argument for blades and I get it, to a point. But what if you were able to put the same amount of effort and focus when using the more forgiving iron? don't you think it would help you score better?

I'm not trying to convince you of anything, I am just wondering what it would do to one's game.
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Exactly. Where this question tries to address. Which pathway leads to greater success and results. SGI or MB Blades. ..

Lessons and practice being equal.

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tequila4kapp said:
What does this really mean to you? Is it the number on the scorecard or is it the number of times you strike the ball wonderfully? There's no wrong answer. This question about forged and blades come up a lot and usually people say some variation of what you said, and that's great. But then we see statements like this

and I get confused because a 5 yard gap between good and bad shots is the type of thing that would directly lead to more birdies and pars.
Click to expand...
This is also what I was wondering and confused about. It is a complex and interesting question. With multiple good answers.


I'm just reading and learning like the rest.

I would of course prefer birdies.

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Johan185 said:
Yes the offset is what turns me off to most SGI sets. Which while offering the forgiveness my handicap requires, turn into hooking machines with my swing plane and release pattern.

So to my eyes the slight offset or better yet clubs without any offset look perfect. The thin blades and narrow soles don't strike fear in my heart as the excessive degree of offset in some clubs I have seen on the market.

This is one of my concerns with the new Apex CF16. It appears to have a touch more offset than the XR Pro's. And the Apex Pro, which have less offset aren't very forgiving when compared to the XR Pro's or the Apex CF16.

So I will investigate a list of cavity Back irons with minimal offsets. This is a list I have never seen. In fact some companies omit listing the offset of their clubs in the specs technical report.

For any player with a tendency to hook the ball, such a list would be priceless. I realize 90% if golfers may be slicers, but that still leave 10% of a 100 million golfers world wide who suffer from hooking the ball.

And believe me we could use as much help as any other golfer.

Jmtc

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Click to expand...

If the look of the club is not important as much as the two criteria you listed (minimal offset and SGI level of forgiveness), then you should play the Cleveland Altitudes. They have less offset than many blades out there. But they look ugly (in my opinion) so it will test whether you only care about results, and not the beauty of playing a blade :bashful:
 
Forgings are done in different factories around the world. Japan is renound for its the precision designs, blueprinting, forging process, superior grade of metal and then any grindings, finishing, plating or raw.
You sure can tell with the feel. Most do't make it to the US big box store / retail market due to the fact the Jap Yen exchange rate make them a bit pricey plus the added cost for quality. You can find sellers in the US that do sell them, some iron sets are $1300 and up. Japanese forging houses are known to be higher quality to China or Taiwan. If you get a chance...try them.
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I play the Hogans 99's as they are Endo forged, quite forgiving for a blade, you would really be surprised!. A set can be had on e-bay for $200-300.
My miss is usually thin and most of the time, usually I am hitting close to center, perhaps a tad to toe side on the odd quick / bad swing, however the 99's preform 'very well' with my not so good shots. Perhaps I am a touch short, but still straight, but still clearing green side bunkers more often than not. They work very well for me, and most solid shots hit greens. I like the thinner sole as I usually am playing in firm conditions, and firmer in Florida winters were we also have wind, blades preform well in wind. I have been playing 24yrs. I train in a PVC swing ring at my house every other day (buy one!), my last thoughts are make a good swing, this is a smooth back swing to the top with a good shape...from there I usually do well. Believe me I am no Pro, and feel you don't have to be one to swing a blade either. Do consider how often you golf and range too.
 
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Johan185 said:
If I was also wondering and confused I won't have asked. It is a complex and interesting question. With multiple good answers.

I'm just reading and learning like the rest.

I would of course prefer birdies.

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It's all good! I've been down a variation of this path myself, as have many others. I know what I believe the answer is, or perhaps what it is for me. Worst case scenario you come out the other end some months from now playing XR Pros with the benefit of a lot of work to improve your swing. Better case scenario is something more rewarding for you. No wrong answers!
 
ProZoneGolf said:
Most do't make it to the US big box store / retail market due to the fact the Jap Yen exchange rate make them a bit pricey .
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure that's false. Based off what I've seen, the exchange rate between the two favors the USD. Anyone who sells them here marks them up for being "exclusive". A $1,000 set of irons purchased here could be directly purchased from the Japanese market for cheaper due to the current exchange rate.
 
cbaker2882 said:
I'm pretty sure that's false. Based off what I've seen, the exchange rate between the two favors the USD. Anyone who sells them here marks them up for being "exclusive". A $1,000 set of irons purchased here could be directly purchased from the Japanese market for cheaper due to the current exchange rate.
Click to expand...

You are 100% correct. The Yen being so weak against most currencies there are bargains to be had. I was costing up clubs on rakuten the last couple of weeks even Japanese forged offerings are a good deal.


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MPlefty said:
we often hear that kind of argument for blades and I get it, to a point. But what if you were able to put the same amount of effort and focus when using the more forgiving iron? don't you think it would help you score better?

I'm not trying to convince you of anything, I am just wondering what it would do to one's game.
Click to expand...
For sure, but not everybody works that way.

I can totally understand the appeal of blades to make you a better ball striker. What I want to see when I practice is balls flying to about the same area, both left-right and distance. With an SGI club, they do that even with some pretty bad misses. With a blade, nothing will hit the target. I'm personally the kind of person that will apply just enough effort to get the result I want, and I'll get frustrated and try harder if I don't get it. So I can see the appeal of practicing (not gaming) a club that punishes mishits more severely. Others aren't the same way, they can stay focused without risking that frustration. They could become better ball strikers practicing with whatever.
 
Any other THP'ers playing JDM forgings/blades?
 
This question seems to come up every couple of months. I'm of the opinion that it really depends on the golfer as to whether blades can aid in becoming a better ball-striker. If blades will get someone to practice more, then I think it's a good thing. Blades certainly make it clear when you mishit a shot, and you will definitely feel it throughout your hands and arms.

I played blades for 10+ years and played some of my best golf with them. I switched to the Cally X-Forged irons mainly because I needed a new set, but also because I wasn't able to get out and practice as much as I'd like and the added forgiveness helped with some of my inconsistency. To this day though, I miss playing my blades and often think about buying a set.
 
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