Is the world trending in the right direction?

I will just say I'm blessed to be a steel worker for 25 plus years now. I truly love my job and enjoy the hazards and everyday challenges

i hope the future brings me the same

thanks for the chat guys. A nice thread to participate in
 
So, because it's dangerous, you're entitled to $40-$50 per hour?
Don't tell enlisted folks that. We do stuff for pennies per hour and a decent health care plan that would curl most people's toenails.
 
Don't tell enlisted folks that. We do stuff for pennies per hour and a decent health care plan that would curl most people's toenails.
You guys should get $50 per. I can't / won't even make an argument otherwise
 
see pharmacy jobs in Alaska. nobody wants to do it. when my wife was coming out of pharmacy school she got a job offer for like $200k+, whereas in the states it was about $100k. demand is there, supply not so much.


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Welding jobs in the Dakotas were the same way. Or IT jobs in the middle east. From what I've seen, fear/dislike of relocation is the biggest thing stopping a lot of jobs from being filled. It's funny even to hear Soldiers afraid of being stationed in places like Louisiana or upstate New York.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to land a job in Southern California when I get out...heck, I'm crafting my degree plan and even my wife's education around ending up somewhere golf manufacturers call home (my marketing degree) and a place that still worried about natural disasters (my wife's Masters in Emergency Management) around the idea of making the southwest our long-term home.

But if the metal meets the meat, and North Dakota needs IT nerds or people who lift heavy crap for pay, I'll do that too. I think there's a reason a lot of veterans adjust well to the civilian environment. They know it's about the people, not the weather or sometimes even the job, and people who buy into success are the best people around to work for and with.
 
You guys should get $50 per. I can't / won't even make an argument otherwise

I agree. My nephew who enlisted in the Navy 16 months ago is getting shipped off to the Middle East in January. He gets hazardous duty pay but whatever the amount, it's not enough.
 
The world isn't perfect, but I don't think we're heading towards doomsday. I agree wholeheartedly with the comments about the news and I'm also very selective about what I read/watch because of the negative spin that gets put on everything. I've been in the Navy for just about 16 years (10.5 years enlisted, 5+ years as a low down dirty officer) and have done my share of traveling to include about 2.5 years spent in various middle eastern locales. A lot has happened since I initially enlisted but it seems like the apocalypse has been around the corner for as long as I can remember. Personally, and I'm sure many will disagree, 24/7 news cycle causes a lot of the hype. Negative sells so why talk about the good in the world? And no, this isn't some hippie speak, but I don't think the world is crashing and burning. Just my .02¢!
 
It's funny that his union job is going away, but he is telling Philly who isn't in danger of losing his job he should start a union, so his job can go away too.
 
From what I've seen, fear/dislike of relocation is the biggest thing stopping a lot of jobs from being filled.

They know it's about the people, not the weather or sometimes even the job, and people who buy into success are the best people around to work for and with.

i have read many articles about the first comment. Some also said not wanting to leave family/support systems to take a job that will provide a good salary. People don't wan to leave their comfort zones.

i totally agree about the vets. I have several buddies who resettled somewhere to take a job that was going to put food on the table and a roof over their heads and have made a successful life out of it
 
Overall, I think the world is headed in the right direction. Technology keeps advancing, medical science keeps advancing, we understand more about the universe around us, people are more accepted for who they are, women have more choice in their lives; all in all things are getting better.
Obviously, we, as a species have a ways to go but if you look at how the world was 100, 200 or even 500 years ago; its getting better.
 
It's funny that his union job is going away, but he is telling Philly who isn't in danger of losing his job he should start a union, so his job can go away too.
It's not funny .. They have nothing to barter for since these nonunion mills had little to start with benefit wise. I'm blessed for everything I have and earned. I just wish other mills would do for others like we receive. It's hazardous on a daily basis , just last week i witnessed a co worker blow out his knee from a slip trip and fall incident. Two months before we had a death in our mill... So yes this equates to the higher pay at my facility.

im not here to tell anonymous online posters what is right or wrong. I'm just saying these are jobs where you have the possibility of not going home to your love ones every night. No job is worth your life , but working in a rolling mill for $15 an hour just isn't adequate. There are tons of jobs that are safer that pay that amount that I would recommend. If you start with little you have nothing to lose.
 
It's not funny .. They have nothing to barter for since these nonunion mills had little to start with benefit wise. I'm blessed for everything I have and earned. I just wish other mills would do for others like we receive. It's hazardous on a daily basis , just last week i witnessed a co worker blow out his knee from a slip trip and fall incident. Two months before we had a death in our mill... So yes this equates to the higher pay at my facility.

im not here to tell anonymous online posters what is right or wrong. I'm just saying these are jobs where you have the possibility of not going home to your love ones every night. No job is worth your life , but working in a rolling mill for $15 an hour just isn't adequate. There are tons of jobs that are safer that pay that amount that I would recommend. If you start with little you have nothing to lose.

I understand and agree with you. The same people who want to take away unions, want to then turn around and overpay people in the military. People who enlist should know the possible dangers associated as well as the pay associated. So no they should not be paid 40-50 an hour. My father served as well as most of my uncles. I have many family members who are retired military as well a current cousin who is an Air Force LT Colonel. They all are living very comfortable.

My brother wanted to enlist and my father was against it. He didn't stand in his way either. He just told my brother that he joined because he was going to be drafted any way. And he used the military as a way out of poverty, to learn a skill and help pay for college when he got out.
 
It is my understanding that, currently, about 15% of the American workforce is unionized and half of those are government employees. I think most of us know that unionization declined as domestic manufacturing declined. While such cannot be entirely blamed on unionization, union demands did have a role. Moreover, when unions are discussed it typically centers on compensation, but there was a much more destructive factor in my opinion. It was the featherbeding union work rules. The person tightening the left bolt could not likewise tighten the right bold. The best and the brightest could not advance because of seniority mandates. It's difficult to pay higher wages, when you are required to hire two people for tasks that only required one. The other significant factor is technology, aka automation. Robots have replace humans in manufacturing.

Additionally, some blame must be placed on the American consumer and the demand for cheap goods. Many Americans simply did not want to pay the price for domestic made goods. It reminds me of the guy driving his Honda to the Wal-Mart while complaining about job outsourcing and then pulls into a full parking lot.

Management, unions and the consumers with their individual demands created the perfect storm to lose domestic manufacturing. Everyone shares a bit of the blame.
 
It is my understanding that, currently, about 15% of the American workforce is unionized and half of those are government employees. I think most of us know that unionization declined as domestic manufacturing declined. While such cannot be entirely blamed on unionization, union demands did have a role. Moreover, when unions are discussed it typically centers on compensation, but there was a much more destructive factor in my opinion. It was the featherbeding union work rules. The person tightening the left bolt could not likewise tighten the right bold. The best and the brightest could not advance because of seniority mandates. It's difficult to pay higher wages, when you are required to hire two people for tasks that only required one. The other significant factor is technology, aka automation. Robots have replace humans in manufacturing.

Additionally, some blame must be placed on the American consumer and the demand for cheap goods. Many Americans simply did not want to pay the price for domestic made goods. It reminds me of the guy driving his Honda to the Wal-Mart while complaining about job outsourcing and then pulls into a full parking lot.

Management, unions and the consumers with their individual demands created the perfect storm to lose domestic manufacturing. Everyone shares a bit of the blame.


Don't leave government out. Regulatory compliance costs are estimated to be $1.8 trillion. That's a huge burden on job creators.
 
Every generation thinks the next is falling into decay and will have a terrible life. The good news is that quality of life always improves from generation to generation. I like to believe that it will hold true.
'The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years'
'During those 200 years, those nations always progressed through the following sequence:
1. From bondage to spiritual faith;
2. From spiritual faith to great courage;
3. From courage to liberty;
4. From liberty to abundance;
5. From abundance to complacency;
6. From complacency to apathy;
7. From apathy to dependence;
8. From dependence back into bondage'

Where do people think we sit in that timeline?
 
Don't leave government out. Regulatory compliance costs are estimated to be $1.8 trillion. That's a huge burden on job creators.

Agreed. I must report in some fashion to just about all of the alphabet soup agencies. Heck, I must send duplicate information to varying locations of the same agency. Even in the same agency, the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing. The cost of complying with governmental regulations definitely negatively impacts the level of wages that may or can be paid.
 
Deuce I used to think we were at stage six. Now I think we're at 7 and rounding the corner.
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Oh it's absolute crap quality but at the end of the day it's cheap enough to where you can replace parts 5 times more frequently and still be ahead in cost. It's crazy.
Oh I'm sure the contractor made a killing on the difference between the price contracted to purchase the steel (U.S.) and the price he paid for it (China).

Unfortunately, the steel in question is used to anchor a 6.5 billion dollar bridge between 2 fault lines, the San Andreas (San Francisco) and the Hayward (Oakland). When the engineers began tightening the suspension cables some of the anchoring bolts failed which prompted testing of all of the anchoring systems. Brittle rods have been found in all of the Bay Bridge's anchoring points, including those at the base of the tower at the bottom of the bay.

How does this tie in with the OP? Just another example of someone thinking of profit over the safety of others. Or said another way, someone failing to do the right thing.
 
'The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years'
'During those 200 years, those nations always progressed through the following sequence:
1. From bondage to spiritual faith;
2. From spiritual faith to great courage;
3. From courage to liberty;
4. From liberty to abundance;
5. From abundance to complacency;
6. From complacency to apathy;
7. From apathy to dependence;
8. From dependence back into bondage'

Where do people think we sit in that timeline?

I agree Deuce. I taught my children that nearly every, if not all, great civilization's demise has started from the inside. Greed, apathy, complacency set in over time - it's just a human condition I guess. I do believe that, sadly, that is the road we are on. I tell them this not to scare them, but to let them know that one day, perhaps soon, leaving here may be the best option. Problem is, the world is "smaller" now - where do they go that is so much better? It's very sobering when you think about it. I do believe that people tend not to change until they are on the precipice - are we closing in on that now? And will, that make people change??
 
I understand and agree with you. The same people who want to take away unions, want to then turn around and overpay people in the military. People who enlist should know the possible dangers associated as well as the pay associated. So no they should not be paid 40-50 an hour. My father served as well as most of my uncles. I have many family members who are retired military as well a current cousin who is an Air Force LT Colonel. They all are living very comfortable.

My brother wanted to enlist and my father was against it. He didn't stand in his way either. He just told my brother that he joined because he was going to be drafted any way. And he used the military as a way out of poverty, to learn a skill and help pay for college when he got out.

I am prior enlisted and while it's been numerous years since I have been out and the base pay has gone up since then it's still pales in comparison to what many workers in low skilled jobs make. Most people understand the risks they face when they join they join the military and the job the choose. Unions pushing for a part time or full time fast food worker to make $15 an hour or for a college kid working on campus in the bookstore or some other job while men and women serving in the military aren't making that and have a skill or multiple skills along with long hours each day. Then add that the benefits when retiring are terrible and constantly being reduced while also being used as a political pawn.

The military members should be paid better than they are and as far as what someone should be paid should depend on their skill, the experience/knowledge and what the market can bear.
 
'The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years'
'During those 200 years, those nations always progressed through the following sequence:
1. From bondage to spiritual faith;
2. From spiritual faith to great courage;
3. From courage to liberty;
4. From liberty to abundance;
5. From abundance to complacency;
6. From complacency to apathy;
7. From apathy to dependence;
8. From dependence back into bondage'

Where do people think we sit in that timeline?

We are so close to 7, if not already there, it should scare people. Sadly, it doesn't scare them because they don't feel the direct pain from any of it
 
I am prior enlisted and while it's been numerous years since I have been out and the base pay has gone up since then it's still pales in comparison to what many workers in low skilled jobs make. Most people understand the risks they face when they join they join the military and the job the choose. Unions pushing for a part time or full time fast food worker to make $15 an hour or for a college kid working on campus in the bookstore or some other job while men and women serving in the military aren't making that and have a skill or multiple skills along with long hours each day. Then add that the benefits when retiring are terrible and constantly being reduced while also being used as a political pawn.

The military members should be paid better than they are and as far as what someone should be paid should depend on their skill, the experience/knowledge and what the market can bear.


I understand your point but my reply was not in defense of raising wages for unskilled wage earners or even in defense of unions in general.

It was simply to say that macroeconomics applies across the board. People sign up for the military knowing the risks associated with it. People work in coal mines knowing the risks associated with it. To say that one should be paid higher than the other doesn't equate. Take all emotion out of it.

If people are willing to sign up for the military then pay them whatever the going scale is. I am all for fair wages I just find it comical that people want to lower pay for some and raise pay for others using flawed arguments. If you are having difficulties finding qualified applicants or people are just turned off with the job then maybe some things should be adjusted to recruit the best.

In college I read an interesting book by John Maynard Keynes. The general Theory of Employment, Interest and Money. I believe I still have that book. He touched on many issues that apply today regarding economics.

Just my opinion, but I think people take issue with certain unions and not unions in general. I rarely hear people complain about Police unions, or Firemen unions. But people moan and groan about teacher unions, government worker unions and unskilled workers unions.
 
Its not a flawed argument when you base it like that however.
One side has union mills closing. The other side has businesses that are staying around.
If you want to use only the macroeconomics side, then once again the unionized are flawed in the examples used in this thread.
 
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