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Questioning Your Instructor

init.6

init.6

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I had an irons lesson two weeks ago and the instructor identified an issue with my head dipping lower than he would have liked. He said I could relieve the head dip by lifting up my front heel a bit on the backswing. Not only would this keep my head a bit more level but he explained that this would also help me in my set up (I squat down a bit and he would like to see me more upright). We worked on it and went back to the video where he pointed out how much better the setup and swing looked. I tried to bring this to the course/range with me last weekend but I ended up topping, chunking, and spraying the ball all over until I moved back to my more comfortable position (+5 on the first two holes using the new setup; +11 the rest of the way with my swing). I know these things take time, but I am really questioning his advice on this one because of how comfortable and consistent I have become hitting my irons a certain way. We had one lesson previous to this one and it helped me tremendously (it was a driver lesson).

Do you ever ignore swing changes suggested by your instructor or do you stick it out until it begins to work (or pick and choose what advice to incorporate to your swing)?
 
Sounds like you need to find a new instructor if you are going to question his methods.
 
It's hard to take something THAT new to the course. I think you need a few range sessions to buy into the change and get your body to be comfortable with it. Now whether you want the change is up to you. I'm sure you can see improvement going either direction
 
1 lesson does not make or break it. Some lessons take time and practice to master. Don't give up on it. Maybe you were still not doing it correctly while out on the course? Maybe you need a "playing" lesson with him so he can see your tendencies on the course? He is a PGA Certified Professional for a reason.
 
Was the head dip during the backswing or downswing?


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fupresti said:
Sounds like you need to find a new instructor if you are going to question his methods.
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I kind of agree with you to be honest, but he really helped out with our first lesson. Maybe I'm just expecting it to come faster than it's realistically possible based on how quickly my driving improved on the first lesson.
 
What was your goal related to iron play? How does this advice relate to that goal?
 
golfinnut said:
1 lesson does not make or break it. Some lessons take time and practice to master. Don't give up on it. Maybe you were still not doing it correctly while out on the course? Maybe you need a "playing" lesson with him so he can see your tendencies on the course? He is a PGA Certified Professional for a reason.
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I never thought about it that way. I had the benefit of the video to see what I was doing wrong in the lesson but who knows what kind of extra movements/mistakes I was making on the course that day. As P.J. said, I think I'm expecting too much too fast and need to work on it a bit more at the range before giving up on his advice. What I'm wondering is if I should commit to it 100% and just eat the bad scores on the course until my body gets adjusted or if I should practice one way and play the more comfortable way until I feel like I can bring what I'm doing on the range to the course.
 
BluesManDan said:
Was the head dip during the backswing or downswing?


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Click to expand...

During the backswing. On the downswing my head tends to get back to setup position the moment I strike the ball. The instructor said that this kind of movement works as long as I get it back to the same point every time but that I'm making it more difficult on myself because it requires really good timing for each shot.
 
tequila4kapp said:
What was your goal related to iron play? How does this advice relate to that goal?
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Striking my irons with more consistency (long irons in particular). My swing is pretty compact, so lifting the heel feels contrary to this goal (it feels like I'm adding more moving parts) but he assured me that if I can level out my head I would be able to strike the ball with a tighter dispersion.
 
Sounds like you e grooved a poor swing and he is trying to fix it. His tip is a little suspect and is all timing based and won’t be permanent. I’d ask him for another tip and maybe dig a little deeper into the root cause of your swing issues.
 
if you're not going to trust him, you need to move on. that said, you've spent many years grooving your swing, and i think it's pretty rare that one lesson will result in immediate results without any backsliding.
 
For years, my instructor that I use regularly has recommended numerous changes to my swing (some minor, some major), but one in particular that is always a sticking point is my grip. I have huge hands and can't stand the feel of the oversized grips (I do use midsize). That said, I try to make the change that he wants, but after a week or so, I go back to the old way that I have used since I was a kid. Not a mental block or anything else. I can swing the way he wants, but it just is too inconsistent without putting endless hours in to fix it. That said, he has my swing working in harmony with my grip. He didn't like how aggressive I get with my release which is a result of the grip. Executed the way I used to do it, results were always a high draw, with the occasional push dead right. Other swing changes, particularly my swing path, has eliminated the 2 way miss.

My point is, sometimes, a fresh outlook and some candid conversation (I think mine was "yeah, my grip isn't changing..." LOL), can help both parties to think outside the box.
 
Difficult to take that concept to the golf course immediately after a lesson - wait a month. But I go with Tadashi, ask him for the root cause of the issue.
 
bigdaddy said:
My point is, sometimes, a fresh outlook and some candid conversation (I think mine was "yeah, my grip isn't changing..." LOL), can help both parties to think outside the box.
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I think this hits the nail on the head about what I'm thinking and thanks for putting it in a better way than I did. It's not that I don't necessarily trust what he's telling me about my swing or his way to improve it. It's that I don't think adding this to my swing is going work for me and I'm not sure what to do about it.
 
Any type of swing change is going to take time to feel normal. I would probably be on the range a few times before trying to take it on the course.
 
KingVeo said:
I kind of agree with you to be honest, but he really helped out with our first lesson. Maybe I'm just expecting it to come faster than it's realistically possible based on how quickly my driving improved on the first lesson.
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I think you said it yourself, when you "moved back to my more comfortable position"... It's great the first lesson led to such a positive result with your driver, but it's tough to have expectations that you'll get every change just as quickly. The "new positions" he was trying to get you into should feel uncomfortable - heck, I'm still working on some positions I started on last summer, and they aren't "comfy" to me, yet, but when I do them correctly, boy does the swing work.
 
Rambler said:
I think you said it yourself, when you "moved back to my more comfortable position"... It's great the first lesson led to such a positive result with your driver, but it's tough to have expectations that you'll get every change just as quickly. The "new positions" he was trying to get you into should feel uncomfortable - heck, I'm still working on some positions I started on last summer, and they aren't "comfy" to me, yet, but when I do them correctly, boy does the swing work.
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I agree. With my situation, I tried it for quite a long time (almost a full season) and struggled the entire year with consistency. Worked my butt off, but still couldn't get it to "take". I found myself a week before our club championship qualifier (where I was the defending champ) hitting balls on the range every direction but straight. I finally said "if I go back to my old grip, what other things could we work on to improve" His immediate response was the swing path (particularly, coming inside the ball more) Within a week, that change became comfortable and results were fairly quick. That said, I think the thousands of reps with the correct grip, had fixed the swing path issues and when I went back to my old grip, the results were there... For me, the comfort was confidence that my swing was reliable again. That is "between the ears" and I know that. End of day, there are many different roads leading to the same place. By the way, I didn't "defend" as I tore my bicep two nights before the match... (non golf related..lol)
 
If you're questioning your instructors methods and reasons, you either need to ask him questions to get reassurance about where the lessons are going, or you need to find a new instructor. Things take time. If you check my Swing Journey thread, you'll see where I've been and gotten to over the past year with lessons. I didn't always understand what my instructor was trying to accomplish or what he was saying, but I had to voice up and ask why....and understand where it was going to go and how it was going to change my game. Changes are difficult...but in my experience with my current instructor.... you need to stick with it and trust....which is extremely difficult.
 
golfinnut said:
1 lesson does not make or break it. Some lessons take time and practice to master. Don't give up on it. Maybe you were still not doing it correctly while out on the course? Maybe you need a "playing" lesson with him so he can see your tendencies on the course? He is a PGA Certified Professional for a reason.
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Being PGA certified should not mean blind faith.
 
All of this stuff in this thread ^^^ ... have this same conversation with your instructor. It may not be immediately clear to you why he's having you do what you're doing. This may just be one step in the process of getting you where you need to be. It may be part of a larger plan, but, you won't know that until you ask him.

When I took lessons last year, I saw some immediate improvements, and some not quite so immediate improvements. The one thing, though, that kept me from getting frustrated was that I had a running free dialog with him about everything. We spent at least as much time talking about the changes and the reasons why as we did with the actual physical adjustments. In one lesson, the discussion was probably 75% of the time. That was a great lesson, because it was addressing the "between the ears" aspect, as bigdaddy put it. To many people - and I'm one of them - the knowledge of why something works better is every bit as important as the mechanics.

Have some dialog with him. As golfinnut said, he's a certified pro for a reason.
 
ntanygd760 said:
Being PGA certified should not mean blind faith.
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True. I'll give you that. But you have to go thru extensive testing to become one.
With that being said though I would go through a number of teachers to find one that knew my Swing and knew my tendencies

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golfinnut said:
True. I'll give you that. But you have to go thru extensive testing to become one.
With that being said though I would go through a number of teachers to find one that knew my Swing and knew my tendencies

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Click to expand...

Yeah I think the second part is key, do you mesh with them and they understand your goals ect.
 
KingVeo said:
I kind of agree with you to be honest, but he really helped out with our first lesson. Maybe I'm just expecting it to come faster than it's realistically possible based on how quickly my driving improved on the first lesson.
Click to expand...

Change doesn’t come easy and there may be some bad strikes as your body learns the new swing. Gotta move dirt to work on the changes
 
He wants you to do something new. It feels strange. No matter who you go see, they will probably have you doing something that doesn't feel comfortable, that you won't master after one range session. If you feel the instructor is off base, you may want to move on, as others have suggested. However, if you believe what he said has merit, then you need to practice it again and again and again. The key in engraining a new move, is not just the move itself, but having a lot of patience to allow it to become engrained.

I am not saying this pertains to you, but I have heard many a person say that lessons don't work for them. The reason they don't work is many people don't have the patience to engrain the move...so they revert back to what they were doing before and say that lessons don't work.

In any event, good luck to you. :)
 
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