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Do you likebrutal US Open conditions?

Mark_UK said:
I don’t and what’s more I think it makes a mockery of the tournament. A major should be hard but make it fair and make it so people that are hitting the correct shot are rewarded with the chance of a birdie. I’d rather watch someone on a charge on the back 9 of a major rather than someone winning just by making fewer bogies than everyone else.


#FiberLaunch
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Can't say it any better myself. It was awful to see players hitting a good shot only to end up having to scramble for a bogey. Phil Mickelson made a calculated decision to take a 2 stroke penalty by hitting a moving ball... well you can hate lefty all you want and maybe he should have been DQed, but the the fact that he was probably right... man that just tells you how brutally difficult the course is.

And it is too bad because Shinnecock is a FANTASTIC golf course. I would do a lot of horrible things to have the chance to play it, but I would not want to go play it tomorrow in i's current state.
 
The USGA, imho, goes too far with most US Open set-ups. The idea that the BEST the game has to offer shouldn't break par is ridiculous. I watched near perfect approach irons land in the middle of the greens only to roll off the back to impossible chip/pitch positions. 10' downhill putts just touched, are rolling 15' past the pin! Shinnecock looks like a great venue, leave it alone and let the world's best take their shot at it, and the best golfer should win, regardless of score.
 
I think Phil hit the moving ball to take the piss out of the USGA's set up. When you can't hold a ball on a green by putting...the USGA have changed the leader board themselves, as they had the choice to cut greens not so low, yet blame it on the breeze. Today's winner should do well 'early' on the front 9. I hope the back 9 is not a loss of score for the leaders.
 
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This set up is kind of foolish, 50 yd wide fairways on some holes with greens that won’t accept a ball? That’s just crazy.

This championship has historically been about testing every aspect of a players game, accuracy, length, chipping, sand play, putting, and most importantly, the mental game, when good shots become terrible shots and great shots are punished, they’ve taken the skill out of it and put in the game of hope and pray.

I used to love seeing the carnage of a tour pro posting an ugly number and walking off scratching their head but this year has really hit me differently, it’s a terrible set up
 
The course wasn't fair to the afternoon crowd when it could have been. And should have been. The course could have been "hard" by reducing the fairway width, keeping the rough really tough and the fast but not crazy fast greens. And our buddy Phil blew it. He may have been within the rules but he wasn't withing the spirit of our game of golf. DQ.
 
TripleF said:
The course wasn't fair to the afternoon crowd when it could have been. And should have been. The course could have been "hard" by reducing the fairway width, keeping the rough really tough and the fast but not crazy fast greens. And our buddy Phil blew it. He may have been within the rules but he wasn't withing the spirit of our game of golf. DQ.
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Agree . I thought the course was setup fine prior to yesterday afternoon. I don’t mind a tough course once a year. Yesterday pm went from tough to unfair imo.


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In a word NO.It is silly to me. The greens late yesterday would be unacceptable at most clubs by the memebership
 
Something in between the super easy and super difficult .. like instead of a -15 winning score and a likely +2 winning score, like a -5 where it's difficult to score but also still possible by exceptional shots

Granted there's lots of exceptional shots here, but the course difficulty can still punish them

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To the question, yes I like brutal conditions for the US Open. These are the best golfers in the world and every part of their game should be tested. Good shots to the right spots were rewarded and bad shots severely penalized.
I saw a lot of very poor shots on Saturday. Drives missing a 50 yard wide fairway with a 3irons. Approach shot hit to spots the players knew wouldn’t hold. And a ton of poorly struck putts. The final groups generally played poorly considering the conditions.
Generally, the responses from the pros were acceptable to the setup and conditions.



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I have to agree, I like seeing the players get out of their comfort box. This has been exciting to watch.
 
To a point, getting a terrible result on a good golf shot is going a little too far though.
 
I like it. To echo what some have said, being rewarded for good shots and punished for bad shots makes the game really fun to watch. Do I think playing a solid shot to the front of a green and watching it roll off the back is a bit much? Yes.


But when it's all said and done a winner will be crowned. It makes no difference if their score is -15 or +15. They're all playing the same field, and someone is going to win. This is why I don't understand the complaints.
 
I like seeing poor shots being punished. The course did seem to get away from the USGA, but I would take this over course conditions where the players can do what ever they want and not have to think.
 
I like to see a hard course with tight fairways, thick rough, and tough pins. But when the greens are cut so thin they are dying, and a marked ball can’t be replaced without rolling, or just some wind blows the ball around... that’s stupid and NOT the way the game was intended to be played. Firm and fast is fine, but not to the point of being ridiculous.


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Yeah I like it a bunch. We all know how well the pros can play on a course with optimal conditions. Lets see how good these guys actually are when they face less than perfect conditions.
 
wadesworld said:
Is it good shots, or good shots to the right place? If the awesome wedge 4 feet from the pin rolls off, but you can hit it 40 feet from the pin and hold the green and 2-putt for par, is that a problem?
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I agree with the above. I mean who says you have to go for the pin? Imo all you need and what should be afforded to the player is a fair chance at par, not birdie.
 
mancest said:
Phil Mickelson made a calculated decision to take a 2 stroke penalty by hitting a moving ball... well you can hate lefty all you want and maybe he should have been DQed, but the the fact that he was probably right... man that just tells you how brutally difficult the course is.

And it is too bad because Shinnecock is a FANTASTIC golf course. I would do a lot of horrible things to have the chance to play it, but I would not want to go play it tomorrow in i's current state.
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I watched the clip many times, Phil hit that putt way too hard, I knew as soon as he hit it was going past and was going off the green, I am a Phil fan but I didnt like what he did and I felt he should have been DQ'd. If that rule about making a stroke at a moving ball is just a 2 stroke penalty, they should change the rule.
 
This is the rule that was violated, not hitting a moving ball, and yes it was a serious, intentional breach, intended to prevent an even higher score than the 2 stoke penalty, Phil himself admitted. He went on to say he should have done this on the 15th at Augusta because he would have a lower score.

The USGA was wrong in not disqualifying him.
—————-
A player must not (i) take an action with the intent to influence the movement of a ball in play or (ii) alter physical conditions with the intent of affecting the playing of a hole.
Exceptions:
1. An action expressly permitted or expressly prohibited by another Rule is subject to that other Rule, not Rule 1-2.
2. An action taken for the sole purpose of caring for the course is not a breach of Rule 1-2.
*PENALTY FOR BREACH OF RULE 1-2:
Match play– Loss of hole; Stroke play – Two strokes.
*In the case of a serious breach of Rule 1-2, the Committee may impose a penalty of disqualification.
Note 1: A player is deemed to have committed a serious breach of Rule 1-2 if the Committee considers that the action taken in breach of this Rule has allowed him or another player to gain a significant advantage or has placed another player, other than his partner, at a significant disadvantage.
Note 2: In stroke play, except where a serious breach resulting in disqualification is involved, a player in breach of Rule 1-2 in relation to the movement of his own ball must play the ball from where it was stopped, or, if the ball was deflected, from where it came to rest. If the movement of a player’s ball has been intentionally influenced by a fellow-competitor or other outside agency, Rule 1-4 applies to the player (see Note to Rule 19-1).
 
This is/was being discussed in the US Open thread.
If you want to discuss it, do it there or start a new thread on it.
This is about the conditions. Lets leave it that way please.
 
My take is that these guys are so darn good that you have to go to ridiculous extremes sometimes to bring par, as the desired standard, into play. Too far, imo.

Tough but reasonable conditions so the course could lend itself to more balanced play AM to PM rounds, is preferred. Low score wins, no matter the number.

I think the USGA went overboard again but I don't get upset about it. Wish it were different but what can you do?

The players are so good that there comes a point of diminishing returns when pushing a course to its limits.
 
I certainly don;t mind "extremely difficult" course set up and conditions for a U.S. Open, but "brutal" may be taking it too far. Whatever the conditions are, good shots should be rewarded and many good shots yesterday afternoon did not get the results they deserved.
 
Phil75070 said:
I certainly don;t mind "extremely difficult" course set up and conditions for a U.S. Open, but "brutal" may be taking it too far. Whatever the conditions are, good shots should be rewarded and many good shots yesterday afternoon did not get the results they deserved.
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I don’t understand this comment.

I watched every hole give up pars and birdies yesterday, after the course had supposedly been “lost.”

Par is supposed to be a good score. Who says over par is bad for the US Open?

The only “issues” I saw yesterday were players who hit the ball in the rough were punished for their misses, and balls hit into the wrong portions of the greens ran off into closely mown areas.

No one guarantees a 200 yard shot will hold on a green.

I had no issues with Saturday being an extreme test of golf.

They practically gave it away today.

A 63...could have been a 61, from a player in the later part of the day.

Shouldn’t be possible in a US Open.
 
I think the course setup was fine. If you are pin hunting and hit a shot with a razor thin margin of error you should be punished. Sometimes the shot with the larger margin of error but is still 30’ from the pin is the right shot. Because these guys almost always pin hunt on Saturday and Sunday to move up that is their mindset. Sometimes it is about making less errors than your competitors and not just making better shots.
 
thewitt said:
I don’t understand this comment.

I watched every hole give up pars and birdies yesterday, after the course had supposedly been “lost.”

Par is supposed to be a good score. Who says over par is bad for the US Open?

The only “issues” I saw yesterday were players who hit the ball in the rough were punished for their misses, and balls hit into the wrong portions of the greens ran off into closely mown areas.

No one guarantees a 200 yard shot will hold on a green.

I had no issues with Saturday being an extreme test of golf.

They practically gave it away today.

A 63...could have been a 61, from a player in the later part of the day.

Shouldn’t be possible in a US Open.
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I think it was Koepka who hit one right at the pen, landed just short of it then rolled towards it, then rolled down into a bunker.

Then there were all of the guys who hit slow putts, because you had to in order to keep from becoming Phil, and then the putts failed to hold the line due to bumpy greens.
 
Scott Cali said:
Other then a couple of questionable pin placements (13 and 15) I thought the course played the way the US Open is supposed to. Par is goal, plain and simple. The early / morning times seem to have the advantage more times than not, but that is the draw on the weekend. I was there on Friday and after my round today I watched the most of the afternoon. Most of the pros took the high road (not like in 2004, and for good reason). 15 was silly late but that unfortunately seems to happen to the USGA more then anyone else.
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For sure. I thought the course was very tough on Saturday and you only had to move those 2 pins a few yards and it would have taken care of the big issues.
 
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