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Please Help Me Fix My OTT Swing

cornerjunkie

cornerjunkie

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I have been playing on and off for most of my life, but one thing that I can't seem to change is my OTT swing movement. I've tried numerous different drills to combat this issue with little success. I can see where my issue is in the video, but my problem is in my head, I believe. I can't seem to tell myself to "drop" the clubhead at the top of my swing. I also feel like I am way too steep on my follow through.

My miss is a push slice and with my swing speed, it can be pretty a pretty aggressive slice... When I try to overcompensate, I usually end up with a snap hook. I'm really trying to get my swing more consistent so that I can avoid these misses, or at least subdue them a bit. It's the number one thing that hurts my score (penalty off the tee box).

The shot in the video was actually pretty much dead straight with a little pull that ended up just over the left tree line past the dog leg.

Any feedback or help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks.



Heres another view (different hole). This ended up fading off on me, as you can probably hear from my comment at the end of the swing...

 
Freddie's got this. Simple stuff from my unrefined eyes.
 
2 things I see: the classic in-to-out swing or reverse-C, too far inside on the way back and outside on the way down

1. You are playing the ball a little too far forward in the stance ... more off your left toe, especially in the 2nd video. What this does is that it subconsciously makes you aim more to the left, so your feet and shoulders are aimed down the fairway (frame :16) but your shoulders are aimed too far left into the trees (but in your eyes they look square to the target line). Imagine you are standing on train tracks ... the left track are your feet and shoulders down the target line, the right the target line. Try moving the ball back in your stance. A little at a time. Concentrate on the inside half of the ball on your downswing and "swing to right field." This combined with the moving of the ball back will get you aligned more square if not right of the target line, producing the powerful draw.

2. At the top, your clubhead is pointing to the right. Once this happens, you "reroute" the club at the transition of the downswing. (16 - 18 seconds in 1st video) so this ends up bringing the club on the "outside" of the target line on the way down. You can see in frame :19, the ball starts immediately left. So you either get the straight pull (if the clubface is slightly closed at impact) or you get the fade which you are dealing with now. Learn to drop your hands in the "slot" on the way down. If you start the downswing with your lower body instead of the clubhead or the hands, that should fix that issue.

By combining the thought of hitting the inside half of the ball and moving the ball back in your stance, you should start to see the ball not fade as much and eventually produce a draw. I bet a lot of your hits on the clubface are more towards the heel. Put a little talc powder on the face, hit a few balls. With the club coming down from the outside, the tendency is to hit it on the heel and produce a fade. Alignment is usually the first culprit ... from there it's swing path. By moving the ball back, it will get you more square to the target line.
You can also try a quick swing key just before you start your swing. Get set up, then consciously move your left shoulder in towards the ball. This will get you more in line with your feet and your target line.

Just my .02 worth.

Not a Sermon ... Just a Thought
 
i agree with golfinnut that you may be playing the ball too far forward, though the camera angle in the face-on vid is not ideal so it may be an optical illusion. i actually think everything else looks pretty good in the setup, and your backswing. sure, you're a little across the line at the top but that doesn't bother me too much. the biggest issue i see in the down-the-line video is that the transition into the downswing is initiated with the hands moving away from the body. i think the ol' feel move that your hands are dropping into your right pocket as the hips rotate open and you maintain your spine angle outta do the trick. but as always, wait for freddie. he'll get you squared away.
 
"If you start the downswing with your lower body instead of the clubhead or the hands, that should fix that issue."

This is helping me stop my over-the-top move that I didn't realize I was doing until my fitter told me. After paying more attention to that in my last round, I saw a few of the baby draws that I've been missing for many months now.
 
Corner what are you try to accomplish? The video down line produced a strong left to right. If this is your move for most of career, why change? So please share with me your goals with this fix.
 
Actually he really isn't over the top. He is a pretty good position to really smack that ball

bobby jones and Sam Snead swung just like the op. Reverse drop
 
Thanks for the responses, everyone. In regards to my ball placement, I usually have in lined it to my left heel, which is a bit aggressive but I must confess, when j move the ball closer to center, it's really uncomfortable to swing. I either completely snap hook trying to force the club down or block my shot out completely. It's definitely something I need to work on.

The club head at the top of my swing is where I feel like I lose my shot on a miss. Can't seem to keep it on a plane. I've been able to hit a nice draw on occasion, but it's definitely not something that happens often.

Tadashi70 said:
Corner what are you try to accomplish? The video down line produced a strong left to right. If this is your move for most of career, why change? So please share with me your goals with this fix.
Click to expand...

Freddie, I'm basically looking to just get a more consistent swing off the box and gain a little more control of my club and shot shape. My misses can be really bad and put me 40 yards plus off the fairway, most of the time OB. This was one of my better tee shots on the day. I have no problem with a slight fade, but I feel like my swing mechanics are promoting a slice, not a fade and I only get that nice fade when everything lines up.

In the end, I'm looking for an adjustment that will help avoid those push slices and hopefully allow me to get some strokes back.... It plays a mental toll when I'm constantly chasing my strokes off the tee box.
 
cornerjunkie said:
Thanks for the responses, everyone. In regards to my ball placement, I usually have in lined it to my left heel, which is a bit aggressive but I must confess, when j move the ball closer to center, it's really uncomfortable to swing. I either completely snap hook trying to force the club down or block my shot out completely. It's definitely something I need to work on.

The club head at the top of my swing is where I feel like I lose my shot on a miss. Can't seem to keep it on a plane. I've been able to hit a nice draw on occasion, but it's definitely not something that happens often.



Freddie, I'm basically looking to just get a more consistent swing off the box and gain a little more control of my club and shot shape. My misses can be really bad and put me 40 yards plus off the fairway, most of the time OB. This was one of my better tee shots on the day. I have no problem with a slight fade, but I feel like my swing mechanics are promoting a slice, not a fade and I only get that nice fade when everything lines up.

In the end, I'm looking for an adjustment that will help avoid those push slices and hopefully allow me to get some strokes back.... It plays a mental toll when I'm constantly chasing my strokes off the tee box.
Click to expand...

Fair enough, so do two things for me. Narrow that stance. You have way to wide of a base in comparison to your shoulders. 2nd make sure your shoulders are lined up with your knees and hips. Lastly I want you to commit to the swing once you get these two fixes in place. I need to know what you saw after a couple of rounds. Don't adjust anything else but what I pointed out.

And you're not creating bad shots with the club crossing the line at the top. You're not to
far inside on the take away.
 
Tadashi70 said:
Fair enough, so do two things for me. Narrow that stance. You have way to wide of a base in comparison to your shoulders. 2nd make sure your shoulders are lined up with your knees and hips. Lastly I want you to commit to the swing once you get these two fixes in place. I need to know what you saw after a couple of rounds. Don't adjust anything else but what I pointed out.

And you're not creating bad shots with the club crossing the line at the top. You're not to
far inside on the take away.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I'll narrow my stance, no problem. When you say that my shoulders line up with my hips and knees, are you talking about where they are pointing to the target line or are all level with each other?
 
cornerjunkie said:
Thanks. I'll narrow my stance, no problem. When you say that my shoulders line up with my hips and knees, are you talking about where they are pointing to the target line or are all level with each other?
Click to expand...

In relation to your target line.
 
Gotcha, thanks. I will hopefully be able to get out to the range this weekend and see how these adjustments play out. Will try to take some video and post my results.
 
cornerjunkie said:
Gotcha, thanks. I will hopefully be able to get out to the range this weekend and see how these adjustments play out. Will try to take some video and post my results.
Click to expand...

Work on this for a week or so then post videos.
 
Had a few range sessions since I posted the video. Like you said, I just worked on narrowing my stance. I had my big toes aligned with my arm pits. I also tried to work on keeping my shoulder on the same line as my hips and knees. Not sure how well I am doing with it. I feel like I am moving my front shoulder toward the ball to help align it with the rest of my body, but not sure I see it on camera. Results were a mixed bag. I had some really good, straight shots, but also had some big misses (see video).

I still feel like I'm going over the top and swiping at the ball. I can't seem to get my swing plane to adjust.

The first video was one of my better shots. My target was in between the two white markers at the end of the range, if you look closely, there's a red flag dead center between the two.



This is a good example of my miss. Pretty violent slice.
 
You need drills...you have to train your way out of the OTT habit.
Get square, then start the downswing with hips legs going FIRST...narrow your stance a tad. Train with stretchy bands fixed high over a door. Get in address position with arms at the top of the swing pulled back with the stretchy bands tight. The goal here is to get into the very position were it all starts, isolate the hips and lower body while your arms are pulled out of the sequence and can't react. Now with the arms NOT moving, start the swing with left hip/core turning around left (not sliding forward) a milli-second later apply pressure / push on the inside right foot. Crank this / pump this till you have it down automatic. This will start the swing from the hips/core, right foot, lower body etc.
You need to train this away from hitting balls at a range were your instinct is to go at it arms first. Do it daily, after a week you will see results
What will happen is the club next will drop in the slot...no more OTT. You have to get the right sequence going. This will also create lag = Boom!
Vision the club is attached to a pull cord/chain on a cieling fan at the top of back swing, now pull the chain down with the club...not out OTT
Also check your Swing weight Driver D4-5, Irons D2.5 - 3. Make sure your swing weights are not too light for your power. Also try a PVC swing ring to get on plane better.
 
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cornerjunkie said:
Had a few range sessions since I posted the video. Like you said, I just worked on narrowing my stance. I had my big toes aligned with my arm pits. I also tried to work on keeping my shoulder on the same line as my hips and knees. Not sure how well I am doing with it. I feel like I am moving my front shoulder toward the ball to help align it with the rest of my body, but not sure I see it on camera. Results were a mixed bag. I had some really good, straight shots, but also had some big misses (see video).

I still feel like I'm going over the top and swiping at the ball. I can't seem to get my swing plane to adjust.

The first video was one of my better shots. My target was in between the two white markers at the end of the range, if you look closely, there's a red flag dead center between the two.



This is a good example of my miss. Pretty violent slice.
Click to expand...


Your alignment is still off. Your shoulders are open to your intended target line. You are also releasing the club too early and as a result you're losing spine angle at impact.

Most of this is caused by your deep back swing. We need to shorten your back swing. I believe if we get short of parallel you'll be able to transition with the lower body instead of the top leading into impact.
 
Any tips for getting my shoulders in line? I feel like I'm lining them up, but I still see it.

Leading with my hips has always been tough for me. When I consciously try to do it, I either block it out and push or overcompensate and snap hook...
 
Do you see that your shoulders are aligned left in the bottom picture?

Any chance you could have a friend go to the range with you? If so, it can be really helpful to have the second set of eyes looking at your shoulders. As you start to understand what proper alignment feels like you can replicate it on your own.
 
tequila4kapp said:
Do you see that your shoulders are aligned left in the bottom picture?

Any chance you could have a friend go to the range with you? If so, it can be really helpful to have the second set of eyes looking at your shoulders. As you start to understand what proper alignment feels like you can replicate it on your own.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the bottom video shows my shoulder much more out of line. The first video, I felt like I was more in line, as you can see the adidas emblem on the left side of my chest. Definitely not where I need to be. Also, looking at the videos, could my feet be too closed in relation to my target line? It almost looks like my feet are pointed to the right white marker, and my shoulders either pointed toward the red flag or the left white marker. My target was to get it dead center of the two markers when hitting these shots.

This along with getting my hips started should alleviate a lot of my issues, the hard part is getting it done... My swing is so mentally implanted in my brain. Old habits are hard to break.
 
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Possible problem I see...
If you stop your video (above) at 16 seconds, and look at your wrist the top of your swing, you will see your wrist is cupped creating a open face.
Look at your grip also, perhaps get the secret glove to flatten the wrist...it works instantly
http://www.amazon.com/Greg-Norman-S1-Normans-Secret/dp/B000I2MJKE


 
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I may have to try the clothes hanger drill. I do notice that my hand is cupped, but from what I can see, the club is still closed a bit at the top. Mostly from my stronger grip in the left hand, I guess. I think the majority of the spin on the ball comes from the swing plane, not the face angle. I could be wrong though. I think what Freddie said about shortening my backswing may help in this department as well.

I did some googling for shoulder line up and found some good tips. One of them was ball alignment. I am going to put the ball closer to center in my stance to see if that can help. Going to some work with the camera and alignment sticks to see if I can get this corrected. I never really noticed my shoulders until I posted this thread, so that in itself is a good sign. Thanks again for the help everyone.
 
cornerjunkie said:
I may have to try the clothes hanger drill. I do notice that my hand is cupped, but from what I can see, the club is still closed a bit at the top. Mostly from my stronger grip in the left hand, I guess. I think the majority of the spin on the ball comes from the swing plane, not the face angle. I could be wrong though. I think what Freddie said about shortening my backswing may help in this department as well.

I did some googling for shoulder line up and found some good tips. One of them was ball alignment. I am going to put the ball closer to center in my stance to see if that can help. Going to some work with the camera and alignment sticks to see if I can get this corrected. I never really noticed my shoulders until I posted this thread, so that in itself is a good sign. Thanks again for the help everyone.
Click to expand...

The ball moves with the club. Driver up front and each club moves closer to center. Just make sure your shoulders aren't pointed left, they move independently and can be squared at address without moving the ball to center.
 
cornerjunkie said:
I may have to try the clothes hanger drill. I do notice that my hand is cupped, but from what I can see, the club is still closed a bit at the top. Mostly from my stronger grip in the left hand, I guess. I think the majority of the spin on the ball comes from the swing plane, not the face angle. I could be wrong though. I think what Freddie said about shortening my backswing may help in this department as well.

I did some googling for shoulder line up and found some good tips. One of them was ball alignment. I am going to put the ball closer to center in my stance to see if that can help. Going to some work with the camera and alignment sticks to see if I can get this corrected. I never really noticed my shoulders until I posted this thread, so that in itself is a good sign. Thanks again for the help everyone.
Click to expand...


You could have a bit of everything going on, also try a pause at the top, watch Reed/Couples top of the swing transition...how about a lesson from a PGA Pro?
 
cornerjunkie said:
I did some googling for shoulder line up and found some good tips. One of them was ball alignment. I am going to put the ball closer to center in my stance to see if that can help. Going to some work with the camera and alignment sticks to see if I can get this corrected. I never really noticed my shoulders until I posted this thread, so that in itself is a good sign. Thanks again for the help everyone.
Click to expand...
I think I remember a tip about where a player's left shoulder should appear to the eye in relationship to their target. If Freddie gave that tip perhaps he could fill in the gaps. That is a helpful way to be able to check your shoulder alignment.
 
tequila4kapp said:
I think I remember a tip about where a player's left shoulder should appear to the eye in relationship to their target. If Freddie gave that tip perhaps he could fill in the gaps. That is a helpful way to be able to check your shoulder alignment.
Click to expand...

That is exactly right. If you can't see both shoulders at set up, chances are your not aligned.
 
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