We've launched the new forums! Read more here

SAM Puttlab partially flawed?

SeeMore Golf
MrMom

MrMom

Active member
Joined
May 12, 2018
Messages
336
Reaction score
64
Location
Gig Harbor, WA
Handicap
GHIN 9.2
TrojanMan said:
I didn't get fit for this specific putter, but I did do a putter fitting at Club Champion right before I bought this. They recommended something that was 34.5" (I typically used 34" before that), something w/ 0-30 degrees of toe hang, standard size grip (nothing huge, and no pencil grips), etc. So I bought a 35" ER2, cut it to 34.5" and put my favored SS GTR 1.0 on there.

The only thing I'm not necessarily sold on from that fitting is the toe hang recommendation. It's a straight, flat, fast carpet putt that's relatively short. It's going to seem like a SBST stroke doing that, no matter what you use (in my opinion). I'm sure on longer putts I have more of an arc.
Click to expand...

I found this post interesting, so I started a new thread (after a search) so as not to hijack the "Putter Ho" thread. Are the SAM puttlab fittings flawed in that the putts they measure are too short? I just went through this a few days ago at the Orlando Club Champion and learned a ton from the fitter. I was hitting about an 8 foot putt, if memory serves. Very flat, very fast, and easy to make. Is this collecting enough data from a putting stroke to make an accurate assessment?

I think it might be. For my game, I think the 6-10 footers are probably the most important. I expect to make anything shorter unless there's a lot of break or severe slope. Anything outside of 10-12' and the probability goes way down for me, so I'm really just trying to get it close. That's why I think the 8 footer they measured me on is probably in the sweet spot for assessing my stroke and selecting the correct putter.

Now, it doesn't take into account looks and feel. That's on the individual and fitter to take into consideration. I place both of those factors very high in finding the right putter.

For those of you who haven't been through a putter fitting with the SAM, here is the summary of the data they emailed to me after the fact. During the fitting, the software recommended the proper shape (blade), toe hang (30 deg), lie angle (70 deg), loft (4 deg), length, etc. that I should be using. That information wasn't included in the summary, unfortunately.

SAM.jpg
 
Currently the best on tour for 8' is 83% and the worst is 28.57% (Aaron Baddeley). After 8' the average drops quick. 10-15' putts are less than 50% for the #1 putter. inside 10' is putting, outside 10' just seems like lagging. With that said, SAM has always been a good measuring tool for me for face and path for the part of my stroke where I'm trying to be the most precise, inside 10'.
 
I don’t think SAM has any issues identifying an arc on the 10 foot putt or so most fittings have you making. That was actually the one. Oh change made in my fitting - adding toe hang.

Even if the end state isn’t a huge arc, you can analyze the path to figure out if someone is in the process of opening or closing the face.
 
Every putt is straight...meaning you need the get the putt rolling where you are aiming...coming off the blade straight. The Pelz Putting Board teaches us that. 8-10 feet should be plenty.
 
I’ve been through a SAM putter fitting and like all fittings it has it’s limitations. The mental side of putting is more important that the technical fitting side. If my head is in the right spot that day, I can make putts with all different types of putters.
 
SAM system did me well this past winter. Only needed a few tweaks to my loft and the ball has been rolling off of the face well. Putting has been much better because the ball isn't shopping like it used to. I'm definitely making more putts from all different distances. SAM is certainly good enough for what most of us need I think. Not sure what else it could do...

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
 
tahoebum said:
I’ve been through a SAM putter fitting and like all fittings it has it’s limitations. The mental side of putting is more important that the technical fitting side. If my head is in the right spot that day, I can make putts with all different types of putters.
Click to expand...

I agree with this.

I went through a SAM session earlier in the spring. Although it gave some really cool data on my putting stroke I came away with a ton of pre-shot thoughts that had me all jammed up mentally. After resetting that and going back to the feel aspect im rolling the ball and making more putts than I ever have.

Again, not taking away from the tool. I think if I would get an actual putter fitting SAM would be essential for this.
 
2BFAST said:
I went through a SAM session earlier in the spring. Although it gave some really cool data on my putting stroke I came away with a ton of pre-shot thoughts that had me all jammed up mentally. After resetting that and going back to the feel aspect im rolling the ball and making more putts than I ever have.
Click to expand...

Interesting that Puttlab gave you preshot thoughts. Puttlab gives you numbers on how consistently you do something and can make a recommendation on how to be more consistent. It doesn’t tell you anything about changing your stroke. Once you put that theoretically ideal putter in your hands you should go back to those original feel based stroke thoughts. Do you think you would have the same preshot thoughts after an iron or driver fitting?
 
tahoebum said:
I’ve been through a SAM putter fitting and like all fittings it has it’s limitations. The mental side of putting is more important that the technical fitting side. If my head is in the right spot that day, I can make putts with all different types of putters.
Click to expand...

Sorry but huh? Being able to sink putts with all different types of putters just means you’re able to adapt relatively fast to changing conditions. Samm fittings don’t affect that at all. The point of a samm fitting is to measure your stroke under tensionless putting situation so that your natural tendencies come forward. Using that info, you can either choose a putter that is perfect for your natural stroke and tempo or decide to go in another direction in hopes that it works.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
2BFAST said:
I agree with this.

I went through a SAM session earlier in the spring. Although it gave some really cool data on my putting stroke I came away with a ton of pre-shot thoughts that had me all jammed up mentally. After resetting that and going back to the feel aspect im rolling the ball and making more putts than I ever have.

Again, not taking away from the tool. I think if I would get an actual putter fitting SAM would be essential for this.
Click to expand...

What’s the difference between a “sam session” and a putter fitting? Honestly asking because I thought they were the same thing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
MrMom said:
I found this post interesting, so I started a new thread (after a search) so as not to hijack the "Putter Ho" thread. Are the SAM puttlab fittings flawed in that the putts they measure are too short? I just went through this a few days ago at the Orlando Club Champion and learned a ton from the fitter. I was hitting about an 8 foot putt, if memory serves. Very flat, very fast, and easy to make. Is this collecting enough data from a putting stroke to make an accurate assessment?

I think it might be. For my game, I think the 6-10 footers are probably the most important. I expect to make anything shorter unless there's a lot of break or severe slope. Anything outside of 10-12' and the probability goes way down for me, so I'm really just trying to get it close. That's why I think the 8 footer they measured me on is probably in the sweet spot for assessing my stroke and selecting the correct putter.

Now, it doesn't take into account looks and feel. That's on the individual and fitter to take into consideration. I place both of those factors very high in finding the right putter.

For those of you who haven't been through a putter fitting with the SAM, here is the summary of the data they emailed to me after the fact. During the fitting, the software recommended the proper shape (blade), toe hang (30 deg), lie angle (70 deg), loft (4 deg), length, etc. that I should be using. That information wasn't included in the summary, unfortunately.

View attachment 33648
Click to expand...

I don’t think that the putts are to short. Ultimately it really isn’t about making the putt, it is about assessing your stroke. The goal is to look at how consistently you aim the putter at setup, rotate the putter, move the putter on the path, lean the shaft, hit the center of the face, etc.

the numbers on your report show you close the putter at impact but account for that with the stroke path going right. You miss the center of the face and deloft your putter. Puttlab will make a recommendation based on what someone programmed into the system to start the ball on a better line with better roll.

The bigger question in my mind is whether the putter recommendation is correct.
 
cnosil said:
Interesting that Puttlab gave you preshot thoughts. Puttlab gives you numbers on how consistently you do something and can make a recommendation on how to be more consistent. It doesn’t tell you anything about changing your stroke. Once you put that theoretically ideal putter in your hands you should go back to those original feel based stroke thoughts. Do you think you would have the same preshot thoughts after an iron or driver fitting?
Click to expand...

Yes. One of my flaws and I would say biggest flaws to my game is the mental side. I have had multiple people tell me I would be in the mid to high single digits if I wouldn't think so much.

For example, mainly on short putts but all around in general. If I sit there and think about it and jam myself up mentally over the ball, tense up, and ill most likely botch it. But when faced with those knee knocker putts I have really focused on not thinking about it, getting over the ball, and instantly rolling the ball getting it done and over with. If I have to wait for a couple guys to putt out and I have a short putt to save par or even save bogey, ill look away from the green and watch someone else tee off, or go back to the cart and fiddle with something in my bag. This has made so much difference and I have saved so many strokes its crazy. Same with other aspects of my game especially off the tee. If I get up with my driver, set up, light grip and go I hit the ball so much better. Rather than think well my feet placement here, shoulders here, take the club back here.....tense up....oh sh*t don't go OB left!......then yank the **** out of it left OB.
 
Alez367 said:
What’s the difference between a “sam session” and a putter fitting? Honestly asking because I thought they were the same thing.
Click to expand...

A session or lesson if you will is seeing your stroke, angle ect with your current putter. So at the end they go over all the slides (like above) and say ok you have this or your doing this. This or that can be the putter and with a different one or one that's setup different that might fix that.

With a fitting, they actually fit you for a putter using the SAM lab program
 
2BFAST said:
A session or lesson if you will is seeing your stroke, angle ect with your current putter. So at the end they go over all the slides (like above) and say ok you have this or your doing this. This or that can be the putter and with a different one or one that's setup different that might fix that.

With a fitting, they actually fit you for a putter using the SAM lab program
Click to expand...

Gotcha. So mainly one only uses your current putter while the other potentially could use multiple putters.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Alez367 said:
What’s the difference between a “sam session” and a putter fitting? Honestly asking because I thought they were the same thing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Puttlab is a tool that measures what you are doing during your stroke. Aim, face at impact, tempo, path, stroke point, loft at impact. The information is the dynamics and. Insistency if your stroke.

Based on that information puttlab can provide a recommendation on the putter you should use.

A fitting does not have to use a system like puttlab, TOMI, trackman, or gc quad, it can be done visually. A basic putter fitting may only determine a length and lie angle based on how you setup. Some people will use a dew board to assess loft needs. Puttlab is just a tool that helps a person do the fitting. I also think there is more to a puttlab fitting than just going with the recommendation it provides; which is all about the knowledge level of the fitter on how to putt. .
 
Alez367 said:
Gotcha. So mainly one only uses your current putter while the other potentially could use multiple putters.
Click to expand...

Right. Essentially they are measuring the same things for the most part but one they are getting your tendencies with your current and setting up a putter to help correct the flaws and the other they are showing your tendencies and patterns with your current and suggestions on how to fix it.

For example, one of the measurements is the angle the face comes into the club. Mine was coming in little steep and he said setting up with a ball position a little more forward will help with this and even it out more.

Don't get me wrong, with me saying its a lot of info and can put a lot of mental thoughts in your head im not saying its not a good tool. Its a great tool. What im saying is one can get fixated on mechanics rather than feel. I for one was.....
 
2BFAST said:
Right. Essentially they are measuring the same things for the most part but one they are getting your tendencies with your current and setting up a putter to help correct the flaws and the other they are showing your tendencies and patterns with your current and suggestions on how to fix it.

For example, one of the measurements the angle the face comes into the club. Mine was coming in little steep and he said ball position a little more forward will help with this.

Don't get me wrong, with me saying its a lot of info and can put a lot of mental thoughts in your head im not saying its not a good tool. What im saying is one can get fixated on mechanics rather than feel. I for one was.....
Click to expand...

I’ve had 1 samm putter fitting each year for the past two years so I know exactly what you mean. The worst is the live feedback option that’s available that really screws you up mentally because you’re aware of what you’re doing in real time and want to fix it instead of just trying to putt normally.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I think one thing to note too is that the data is only as good as the person who's using it.

The fitter I had looked at all of the numbers, went over my stroke with me, made a suggestion on a style of putter as well as some features (alignment aid style, for one) that would benefit me with the tendencies he saw. Sure enough, putted a while and when we got back on the SAM some of the adaptations I'd made with my old putter went away. We then went over some issues that he thought the proper fit was going to cause in the short term since I had made some compensations. Those bore out, but since I've settled in I've putted better after the fitting than I ever have.
 
Alez367 said:
I’ve had 1 samm putter fitting each year for the past two years so I know exactly what you mean. The worst is the live feedback option that’s available that really screws you up mentally because you’re aware of what you’re doing in real time and want to fix it instead of just trying to putt normally.
Click to expand...

Yes. When I got done with mine, I came home on my PuttOut mat and my notepad and went to work. And soon after it warmed up and I was hitting the practice green doing the same thing. Then I would go out and play and I was putting so bad my buddies go "bro, what are you thinking about? "Are you trying to save the world over your putts or what?" "just roll the ball man" .....after that I get up, go, and get it done and im back to making putts. Then when I would miss an easy one they would go "thought about that one didn't ya?!"
 
What i see people describing with fixation on numbers and techniques is the same thing that happens on launch monitors and after full swing lessons.

The focus on mechanics starts and seeing the information causes people to change to achieve what is perceived as perfect. The goal isn’t to think about the mechanics but understand the mechanics to make it a feel.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top