do you think most average public courses par5's are really long enough to be par 5's?

rollin

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Im don't mean tour par5 yardages but out here with the masses.
Its hard to give exact yardages for a par5 because obviously each course has multiple tee sets. But lets talk tips (blue on most courses I assume) and then we can kind of guess the yardages from sets of tees that are closer.

I understand that yardage is not always the most required thing for a par5. layouts can also play an important role. Things like forced lay ups, and or elevations and over all layouts can bring integrity to short par5's. But that's not a norm so aside from those kind of rarer occasions do you think most public average courses have par5's that are really too short to be a 5.

From most courses I have played I think too many of them are not really deserving of being a 5. Imo 500ish yards from the tips (which then could be 460 or less from next tee up ) and certainly much less than that as we move ahead to each closer tee.

I just don't think 460 yrd hole is a par5 with integrity. Especially when with some dogleg to it which can then cut off a huge chunk of that yardage. Not that Im trying to make the game any harder. But a 5 is not a 4 nor should it be a 4,5 and there are imo too many par5's out there that are only such because they have just a tad too much to be a 4. To me its similar to a 260 yrd par4 that has nothing of risk involved. Imo that's basically a hole that was a bit too long to be a 3. Same logic with that imo. I think a hole shouldn't move to a 5 just because its only a tad longer than what a 4 should be.

And then also on top of this they also from my experiences tend to very often play the given set of tees up towards the front of the tee area for that set which can shorten it even more. A lot of people will say ..." I like this , its great as it gives me a chance to score well and maybe bird". But honestly then why not just play up a tee (vs what you do play) to begin with? I can appreciate the par or the bird of course as much as anyone regardless and I don't at all always make them on these relatively short par 5's , but honestly its not quite as rewarding when they basically gave me half a par rating to start the hole from the tee to begin when I do make the better score. I just feel like there needs to be more integrity to a number of par5's out there.

What your thoughts.
 
Non new "championship" public courses tend to have par 5s that are too short. I tend to think of them as par 4.5's.
 
Well there is a course that we play often that has two par 5's that on a decent 260 drive you are left with 220 which to me is reachable but decent and i try to keep my mind set that it's a par 4 so don't make a bogey, i rarely birdie them , but it had 3 par 3 that are 190+ which are the equalizers imho, so for me if they have easy par5 then usually there are some crazy holes to make up for them lol

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I do find that many par 5's can play shorter but I'm aware that most courses are designed for casual rather than tournament play.

My course's par 5s are all easily over 500 yards from the tips. Even from the blues, the shortest is listed at 494 yards. From either tee, they provide a certain test through shot selection and risk/reward.

But I can reach them all in two from the tips. There are much better players, much longer players than myself. I'd imagine that for them, they're all pretty easy holes.

If my course were to host significant tournaments, I'd likely hope that they could play harder. But for us mere mortals, I'm OK with them as is.
 
Yes, simply because most amateurs just aren't that good. If everyone was scoring an eagle or birdie I'd change my mind.
 
I think they are OK if they are on the short side. All the average players pull out the big stick and who know were it's going. They turn a short par 5 into a par 7 or higher. They also play from the tips just to make it harder on themselves. Then there is putting.
 
460yd Par5 has no integrity? With a 210yd average amateur drive?

OK, so let's go with the average single handicapper drive of around 240. That still leaves 220 off the ground.

we're not all Jason Day with 200yd 7 irons
 
Yep, the par 5’s on my home course range from 460 to 500 yds. On a good day I have an average drive length for my age, I’ve never come close to getting on the green in two shots.
 
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My average drive is 240. My 3 wood goes about 215 off the deck on a good shot. Anything over 460 is definitely a par 5 for me.
 
If all 5s on the course were 450ish, I might be inclined to agree, at least to some extent. But, in my experience, they aren’t too short for the average golfer (who, if I remember the data correctly, has an average drive of less than 220 yards.

And depending on the layout of the hole, I might not have a problem with a 260 yard 4.
 
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At our 9 hole course at Crystal Springs in NJ one par 5 is 550 from the whites, 583 from the blues and 624 from the blacks (the tips)! Now, THAT'S a par 5. As a starter at that course often, I tell the players to think that even a 300 yard drive will still give them a 250 yard 2nd to the green FROM THE WHITES!
 
I think par 5 holes on a public course should average right around 500. Anything much more than that has the potential to significantly slow down play. My personal thought is that low to mod 500's makes a good distance for a par 5.
 
Yes, simply because most amateurs just aren't that good. If everyone was scoring an eagle or birdie I'd change my mind.

This. I play a couple of courses with what I would consider reachable par 5s regularly, and it's rare that I see anyone on, or even around, the green in two.
 
I agree with many of the posts here.
Most amateurs are between 200-250 on a good drive.
You want a shot at a par 5 in 2 to reward a good drive and make things a little more fun now and then.
I think 450-550 is perfect for amateurs.
All you "good" players complaining about them being too short move back a tee or two and let us hackers have some fun.
 
Here are some hard numbers from Trackman: https://blog.trackmangolf.com/performance-of-the-average-male-amateur/

The average golfer's swing speed, with ideal delivery, maxes out at 228 carry. I think we can all agree that most of the golfers on a course are not generating ideal launch conditions. They have the average carry at 205. So now that 460 par 5 is not really looking all that short. Yes, there are guys that hit it further, and that's why the par 5s tend to be the lowest handicap holes on the scorecard - because there's the biggest difference between the higher and lower handicaps there.
 
I would say those are the holes that contribute to slow play. How many times a day that groups playing the hole wait for the green to clear, only to duff their second shots? Most people can’t hit two consecutive shots that far. Most of your public golf courses were designed and built in the 50s or 60s too.
 
I'm sure I've never played a par 5 and said "man this hole is too short." I played Thursday and had my typical par 5 play out. 505 into a light breeze and a solid drive left me 251 to the pin. Smashed a 3w pin high in the rough to the left of green side bunker. Tried to get cute with a flop and came up short in bunker, thinned next one. Chipped up onto green and 2 putted for a 7. 5 shots to get in the hole from no more than 15 yards off the green. 2 solid shots to get there and simply implode.
 
As a representative of the folks who generally don't hit drives over 160 yards, and who rarely if ever even have a chance to hit a GIR except on the short par 3s, please don't lengthten the par 5s.

From the reds, they're already really long for a lot of us, even after lessons.
 
I only know 1 guy that can get on in 2 at any of my clubs Par 5s. All are over 500, except for one that is 422, but has such a severe carry over a mountain of desert, that most people still lay up.

I agree with most people here. It's a bit insulting to most of us saying that 460 is too short and needs to be lengthened. Yesterday twice on a different course I frequent I had an opportunity to try to go for the green, both times I opted for my six iron to setup a more controlled 3rd shot.

BTW my home course from the tips, 600, 595, 612, 512.......never see anyone playing from those tees.

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I don't think long enough necessarily applies to any hole, be it par 3, 4 or 5. Golf isn't always about par vs length, be it an amateur public course or PGA pro course. I've seen pros double bogey or worst on a 250 yard par 4. Where length does come into play is when a hole is so long that clearly the average golfer can not reach a green in two. Public Courses should be designed to allow the possibility. That is why there are multiple tee boxes, to accommodate skill levels. Unlike many golfers I encounter, I don't play from the tips at most golf course because the possibility of reaching GIR doesn't exist, on the par 5s and many par 4s, at my skill level. Too often, I see guys playing from the tips who barely drive the ball past the red tees. Clearly, the many challenges of golf include the ego.
 
Our public course 5s are 602, 535, 458, 471 from the tips. They all have at least one element that makes them difficult to reach in 2, so I think they’re all good par 5s.

Alternatively, if they were 4s they would be wayyyyyyy too hard.
 
13th at Augusta is only 510 yards. Guess we should change that to a par 4 now since it’s not long enough.
 
I'm a big fan of the "short" par five when there is a good risk/reward scenario. I thinking #18 at Turtle Bay (Palmer Course) which plays about 510 from the 6300 yard tees.

If you stick a good drive in the fairway 250-270 you've got a good shot at reaching the green in two. But there is a big pond in front of the green, which may force you to lay up if the winds are blowing (which they always are.) Take the risk, and you may be rewarded.
 
I assume anybody saying par 5s are too short are averaging par or better on those par 5s.
 
Not at the course I play most of my golf.

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