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Manufacturers increasing lofts

SuperStroke
bk711

bk711

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Have manufacturers finally ran out of ways to really improve irons on a year to year basis? I mean there is only so much technology/weight dispersion that you can change every year. So, with that said... are golf manufacturers making these irons stronger lofts to make the player feel like they are hitting the ball farther? I know Taylormade has done this quite a bit but it seems it has leaked over in other brands. Any thoughts?
 
I'm sorry to start the thread like this, I know you are new here and so welcome to THP, but this topic is just beating a dead horse at this point as nearly all OEMs have different club models with lofts of varying degrees. More plays into distance than just loft as well.


For me personally, I don't care if someone is hitting a 28* 7 iron the same distance I am hitting my 27* 6 iron. Doesn't matter to my ego, doesn't matter to my club selection, doesn't matter one iota. What matters is how well you hit the club and its effect on you with the ability to enjoy the game. Options are good for all consumers and I will not tell someone to not play something because it is not traditional.
 
modern day lofts are a necessity based on the technology being put into irons across all OEM's. They are not increasing lofts just to tout distance claims. It's needed to achieve ball flight when combined with modern head technology.
 
mikeg_74 said:
modern day lofts are a necessity based on the technology being put into irons across all OEM's. They are not increasing lofts just to tout distance claims. It's needed to achieve ball flight when combined with modern head technology.
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Youre right, theyre not just increasing loft, their also making the shafts longer. I dont buy the notion that increased lofts are neccesary because modern heads are so advanced that shots would balloon if they didnt. Take any of the, "modern" technology and its just a rehash of something that has already been done.
 
Badger_Golfer said:
Youre right, theyre not just increasing loft, their also making the shafts longer. I dont buy the notion that increased lofts are neccesary because modern heads are so advanced that shots would balloon if they didnt. Take any of the, "modern" technology and its just a rehash of something that has already been done.
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We’ll agree to disagree. THP has provided the answers directly from the OEM’s so it’s hard for me to disagree with the guys and girls designing irons .
 
Badger_Golfer said:
Youre right, theyre not just increasing loft, their also making the shafts longer. I dont buy the notion that increased lofts are neccesary because modern heads are so advanced that shots would balloon if they didnt. Take any of the, "modern" technology and its just a rehash of something that has already been done.
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I sort of agree. Any given iron set contains lofts from roughly 20º-50º, so OEMs can make clubs at any loft they want and be able to design clubs that don't balloon. It also depends on the golfer, I had my last set bent weak because they didn't spin enough for me, no ballooning ever.

I do believe them when they say they have increase launch and that a newer strong lofted club goes as high or higher than older weaker lofted clubs.
 
Lofts have changed quite a bit over the year, but a lot of that is due to the different design of club heads. An SGI iron with a big cavity back is going to launch higher than a MB at the same loft. So to compensate for that many manufacturers have adjusted lofts on many models.

But if you look at the Players clubs (MB or minimal CB irons) the Lofts are pretty similar to they were when I took up the game. For example the PW in a the Taylormade P730 is 47* as is the PW in the Apex MB. If you go into the SGI models then you see PW in 42/43*.

So it really depends on the type of iron you are playing.
 
Does it matter? Is there a problem with starting your iron set with a 5 iron?

Does it really matter what the number on the bottom of the club is?
 
i very much agree with @blugold. i just don't care what makeup the set is so long as i can hit everything the distances i need.

my longest iron is a 5i, and i hit it plenty long. so i have fewer clubs at the top of my bag, and more at the bottom.

if there is an area of the bag that i think technology can still be improved it's in the transitional club from set wedges to specialty wedges. i think something like the cleveland cbx is the right step, and i hope other companies follow suit. something not as chunky as the set wedge, but still less demanding (and a little less spinny) than a specialty wedge.

i also think it's interesting that we love to blame loft jacking for us all hitting the ball too far, but few people outside of jack nicklaus seem to be chastising the golf ball companies for making golf balls that go too far. we think jack is a curmudgeon and laugh at his argument against the ball, yet many of us wag our fingers at oems for making irons that go too far.
 
Golf gets a lot more fun when you stop worrying about lofts and start worrying about what distance you need to hit and does the club do what you need it to do.
 
For me, its simple. Lofts need to change to maximize the performance based on the launch these clubs are capable of now given how the weights are manipulated and/or moved around the modern face technologies being made.

IMO this is different from the basic perimeter weighting used in the past. Golf club design has gotten better and lofts have to be adjusted unless everyone wants to hit balloon shot all the time.


Like others have said, gapping is more important that lofts.
 
mikeg_74 said:
For me, its simple. Lofts need to change to maximize the performance based on the launch these clubs are capable of now given how the weights are manipulated and/or moved around the modern face technologies being made.

IMO this is different from the basic perimeter weighting used in the past. Golf club design has gotten better and lofts have to be adjusted unless everyone wants to hit balloon shot all the time.


Like others have said, gapping is more important that lofts.
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It is very simple. Not only has club design gotten better, but with incredibly accurate, modern tech like high speed cameras and Trackman, doesn't it make sense for every single club to be given it's best potential combination in launch, spin, distance, etc? Would anyone like to know that they were leaving upwards of 5+ playable yards a club out of their hands because the club wasn't optimized? Show me a person who wouldn't like 5 more yards to optimize performance and I will show you someone who is a fool.
 
tpluff said:
It is very simple. Not only has club design gotten better, but with incredibly accurate, modern tech like high speed cameras and Trackman, doesn't it make sense for every single club to be given it's best potential combination in launch, spin, distance, etc? Would anyone like to know that they were leaving upwards of 5+ playable yards a club out of their hands because the club wasn't optimized? Show me a person who wouldn't like 5 more yards to optimize performance and I will show you someone who is a fool.
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The other part I never considered is the inconsistent swings of amateur golfers. Let’s say for arguments sake lofts are “jacked” for no other reason that distance gains. For golfers who don’t hit the center of the face every time, those “adjustments” to lofts are helping you.
 
Eh. long as it goes the right distance. I play a 170y 8 iron now, used to play a 170y 7 iron... Either way, I pull a club when I need 170y.

As far as maxing out iron tech.. they still have a long way to go, as material costs reduce they can make affordable irons out of them. I'd love me a graphite / tungsten iron head to get the weight everywhere I want and flex as bouncy as possible.
 
I've never understood jacking up lofts. A good swing will be rewarded with a predictable ball flight. My ball flight is always high, and my irons, 3-PW, are 22-49 degrees of loft, which is pretty traditional. Are stronger lofts just needed because of lower CG? I've always thought it was just so someone could say they hit a 6-iron when they really hit something closer to a 4 or 5, so they could feel like a man.

Even the players' clubs I'm looking at now have lofts jacked up 1/2 club compared to earlier designs with similar weight distribution/offset/etc.
 
Technology in sports is a good thing. There is much more than distance that has changed with stronger lofts. Who cares though? Do you have a club that can hit the distance you need?
 
Over the Top said:
I've never understood jacking up lofts. A good swing will be rewarded with a predictable ball flight. My ball flight is always high, and my irons, 3-PW, are 22-49 degrees of loft, which is pretty traditional. Are stronger lofts just needed because of lower CG? I've always thought it was just so someone could say they hit a 6-iron when they really hit something closer to a 4 or 5, so they could feel like a man.

Even the players' clubs I'm looking at now have lofts jacked up 1/2 club compared to earlier designs with similar weight distribution/offset/etc.
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Look at it this way. They haven't changed the lofts, they've just changed the numbers assigned to them. Scared to hit a 3 iron? Presto, changeo! Now it's a 4 iron :cool:
 
Over the Top said:
Are stronger lofts just needed because of lower CG?
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I was just watching a YouTube vid where Rick Shiels said exactly this. He said that yes, the stronger lofts are because OEMs are lower the CG of the irons so they are easier to hit and go farther with the stronger lofts. YMMV.
 
Well my main point in the original post was how much more technology can they change each year? In 10 years is a 7 iron going to be 26°? I dont mind so much the loft changes but I'm just unsure how much better they can improve an irons head and weight to keep giving you more distance without completing changing the standard lofts. I agree, idc what iron it takes me to reach my yardage as long as it gets there.
 
tpluff said:
For me personally, I don't care if someone is hitting a 28* 7 iron the same distance I am hitting my 27* 6 iron. Doesn't matter to my ego, doesn't matter to my club selection, doesn't matter one iota. What matters is how well you hit the club and its effect on you with the ability to enjoy the game. Options are good for all consumers and I will not tell someone to not play something because it is not traditional.
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They are stronger lofted and longer in length but I agree with above. That said I have played with guys for 30 years that have always hit one or two clubs less then me and I don't care. Why would I care what someone else hits to a green or on a par 3? That is just as bad as wondering how someone can drive it longer than me, which has also been going on for 30 years or more! lol
 
bk711 said:
Well my main point in the original post was how much more technology can they change each year? In 10 years is a 7 iron going to be 26°? I dont mind so much the loft changes but I'm just unsure how much better they can improve an irons head and weight to keep giving you more distance without completing changing the standard lofts. I agree, idc what iron it takes me to reach my yardage as long as it gets there.
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Year to year on similar iron styles, probably not a whole lot. Just depends on the player and if what is changed will make an impact for you personally or not. I'd say for most there wouldn't be much, but it might just be something that can help a specific group of people that have specific misses/flaws.

There can be breakthroughs though. As things such as TM speed slots, Callaway's 360 cup face, and Wilson's power holes (not sure on naming there) when released were pretty big changes. In general the overall landscape of irons won't change a whole lot other than aesthetics, but again, sometimes breakthroughs happen and something is released that actually can have a decent effect.
 
cbaker2882 said:
Year to year on similar iron styles, probably not a whole lot. Just depends on the player and if what is changed will make an impact for you personally or not. I'd say for most there wouldn't be much, but it might just be something that can help a specific group of people that have specific misses/flaws.

There can be breakthroughs though. As things such as TM speed slots, Callaway's 360 cup face, and Wilson's power holes (not sure on naming there) when released were pretty big changes. In general the overall landscape of irons won't change a whole lot other than aesthetics, but again, sometimes breakthroughs happen and something is released that actually can have a decent effect.
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As a side note/example to this:

For me, the Srixon z765's moved more mass towards the toe, which helps with toeside misses more than the z745's did. So from one release to the next, those irons did improve a decent amount for me personally, and made them much more playable for me due to how I tend to miss. They also drastically (IMO) improved the sound/feel of them. So again, it's not something that is going to happen every year, but there can be changes and improvements that make a new release better than a previous version in the right scenario.
 
bk711 said:
Have manufacturers finally ran out of ways to really improve irons on a year to year basis?
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As long as they can raise prices and people still buy the clubs, there will always be some “improvement” that’s new year to year.
 
mikeg_74 said:
modern day lofts are a necessity based on the technology being put into irons across all OEM's. They are not increasing lofts just to tout distance claims. It's needed to achieve ball flight when combined with modern head technology.
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I agree with this^

Also, most OEMs offer multiple releases that range from stronger lofted, high launch/low spin distance irons to more traditionally lofted, higher spin players type irons. So it isn't like a player is forced to play rogue x irons, most companies have at least 3 or 4 varying options to choose from. Options are great!
 
JohnSinVA said:
Look at it this way. They haven't changed the lofts, they've just changed the numbers assigned to them. Scared to hit a 3 iron? Presto, changeo! Now it's a 4 iron :cool:
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... Exactly. While it is cool for some to hit the ball farther with a given numbered iron, I couldn't care less. At 65 I am taking advantage of technology and playing the best golf of my life. But if Taylor Made changed the numbers on every sole of the P790's with the 50* AW becoming the PW, the 45* pw becoming the 9 iron, the 40* 9 iron becoming the 8 iron, etc there would be absolutely zero difference to my scores as I would be pulling my 31.5* club for a 180 yd shot regardless of what number is on the sole. Although I have my 5-pw P790's bent 1* weak and my 4 iron at the standard 21* of loft, my last club would just be a 21* 3 iron. Much ado about nothing I think.
 
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