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Women's clubs - cut down mens or designed for women?

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DucatiGirl

DucatiGirl

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(Mods if this topic is covered by another thread, please merge - thanks!)

So in the Behind the Scenes: Equipment Manufactuer's thread (the epic road trip JB and GolferGal took this year), I asked a lot of questions about women's clubs and ended up realizing that the topic was way more complicated than I thought. A woman's swing is different from a man's, simply because of body differences and sizes (in general, of course, ideas like center of balance, center of strength/power, arm to torso to leg length ratios, etc.).

Now I'm curious about whether or not there's actual research going into designing a club for women, instead of just popping a "men's" club head on a shorter 4.0 flex shaft and saying "have at it, girls."

I read on another site that the "higher swing speed equals stiffer shaft, lower swing speed equals flexier shaft" has been roundly debunked, but there's a lot more to this topic than flex. And my classes in kinseology are definitely too far in the past for me to remember much more than generatlities, and engineering was never my strong suit.

So how in the world am I, and all the women golfers out there, supposed to know if a company is just slapping on pink paint (ungh I HATE that) and saying "go for it, chycks?"
 
Not sure about the research and what not but I do know that callaway/cobra/mizuno actually have different components for their ladies lines.

Usually lighter heads, shorter shafts, smaller grips which all equals to a “lighter” swing weight in the mid c range.

Is that a good way to do it? Not sure haha. I know women who need to be playing what I or even my accomplished golfing buddies play. I also know women who are more what the OEMs are creating clubs for.

Not a real answer haha.


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PapaJohick said:
Not sure about the research and what not but I do know that callaway/cobra/mizuno actually have different components for their ladies lines.

Usually lighter heads, shorter shafts, smaller grips which all equals to a “lighter” swing weight in the mid c range.

Is that a good way to do it? Not sure haha. I know women who need to be playing what I or even my accomplished golfing buddies play. I also know women who are more what the OEMs are creating clubs for.

Not a real answer haha.


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Hey I like discussions and that's good info.

Everone is different, everyone has a different swing, so the topic is clearly complicated beyond averages.
 
It’s interesting for sure. Especially with the female golf
Population growing.


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PapaJohick said:
It’s interesting for sure. Especially with the female golf
Population growing.


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Click to expand...

With more women entering the game, to me it's a no brainer to capture that market now. I'd seize it and then you'd be the company that all the current women golfers will turn to the new ones 5 years from now and say "buy this brand, they definitely have the gear for us."

But that's my interdisciplinary degree talking too haha - it's not just physics, kinesiology, and engineering we're talking here - cultural anthro and economics and marketing...
 
I think step one is fitting for each player. Lots of women I know should be be playing different flexes. Some stiffer, some softer, that goes for everyone though. I wonder if women’s swings are on average truly different enough that different head construction is required?
 
DucatiGirl said:
With more women entering the game, to me it's a no brainer to capture that market now. I'd seize it and then you'd be the company that all the current women golfers will turn to the new ones 5 years from now and say "buy this brand, they definitely have the gear for us."

But that's my interdisciplinary degree talking too haha - it's not just physics, kinesiology, and engineering we're talking here - cultural anthro and economics and marketing...
Click to expand...

Oh ya and I do think cobra has done a decent job of this from what I can tell. It helps that they have a decent presence on the lpga as well. But you’re right. If they can show they are more into the female golfer than someone else, that’s a increasing market that is prone to be top of.


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When I was researching irons the only real difference I could tell was the swing weight. If there are other differences I'm not expert enough to spot them. While company's are getting away from the "shrink it and pink it" concept of creating women's clubs I think more could be done.
 
Just a little back history. I have 3 kids and our oldest daughter is really hoping to make the High School Golf team when she starts High School next school year. She is 14, petite and a lefty. Probably fully grown, too. She's about 4' 11'' and currently 96 pounds. Our son, the middle child, is hot and cold with Golf, had a set which he outgrew, and really didn't play much. Now we got him a PW so he can join my daughter and I at the range.

I did tons of research on what kind of clubs our daughter needed given her stature and weight, and talked to at least three Golf pros locally and went to a local Golf Expo to discuss these issues with Golf retailers from all over the country.

Every one said that Golf Clubs for women should be markedly different than Golf Clubs for men.

The example given was that Adult male, roughly the same height and weight as an Adult Female will have much different Club needs than that Adult Female. Mostly for strength and swing speed reasons. Shorter stature females are more akin to Junior Club needs, I was told.

For my Daughter, we got her a Petite Female set and it fits her perfectly. They are feather light. Her PW is actually lighter than or son's. Even though he is shorter and we got him a Junior single PW made for his height. He's about 4 inches shorter than his sister right now at 11 years old.
 
I think it's going to depend on the women playing them. Even at the pro level. Looking at Inbee Park's bag, she's got the XXIO Forged in her bag - pro golfers aren't exactly the target for the XXIO lines. But I'm guessing she gets better performance from the XXIO than the Srixon lines. Other XXIO staff plays some other irons in their bags. On the other side, looking at So Yeun Ryu's bag, she's got the Honma Tour World line in the bag, including a relatively compact bladed iron. The PING bags played by women are definitely interesting to look into as well. You see more of the G irons, and less of the iBlade/S series. I started digging into the Japanese lines because I know they tend to target that market a bit more than some of the OEMs here.

On the shaft side, it probably comes down to how speed is generated. My gut tells me skilled women probably have a longer, smoother swing than men's ams, even though they're often swinging about the same speed. Which I think is why you see more lightweight/R flex shafts in LPGA players, even if they're driving the ball 250 yards. There's also the whole ego thing on the amateur side.
 
DucatiGirl said:
With more women entering the game, to me it's a no brainer to capture that market now. I'd seize it and then you'd be the company that all the current women golfers will turn to the new ones 5 years from now and say "buy this brand, they definitely have the gear for us."

But that's my interdisciplinary degree talking too haha - it's not just physics, kinesiology, and engineering we're talking here - cultural anthro and economics and marketing...
Click to expand...

You are spot on with this.

As someone mentioned, Cobra is really the only company that is spear heading Women's Golf Clubs. They have Lexi Thompson branded Club sets for Girls and for Petite Women. Callaway had a female set that was popular for awhile, and still have it available, but it is rather expensive for what you get. It's not like there are as many choices as there are for men, which is a shame.

That being said, there are quite a few independent brands out there that cater mostly to Women's Golf and the equipment needed. These brands are generally only available as online purchases, which makes it difficult for anyone to go out and try them.

Also, there are now shops like 2nd Swing that offer custom fittings for Women and also have Women's club heads available to custom build sets. I watched a woman's custom fitting at one of their stores over the weekend with my daughter in tow, and it was quite impressive.
 
I think the first time I saw or heard a major, mainstream company emphasize a line of clubs was engineered for women was Callaway with the women's Rogue irons.

The product page - https://www.callawaygolf.com/golf-clubs/iron-sets/irons-2018-rogue-womens.html - says "Engineered for a Woman's Game." Callaway seems proud of this fact in podcasts I've listened to, and I think it's great.
 
NewGlfr said:
The example given was that Adult male, roughly the same height and weight as an Adult Female will have much different Club needs than that Adult Female. Mostly for strength and swing speed reasons. Shorter stature females are more akin to Junior Club needs, I was told.

For my Daughter, we got her a Petite Female set and it fits her perfectly. They are feather light. Her PW is actually lighter than or son's. Even though he is shorter and we got him a Junior single PW made for his height. He's about 4 inches shorter than his sister right now at 11 years old.
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Fascinatingly, the set that I have - Callaway Solaire - there's only about 0.5" difference in the clubs between standard and petite. When I bought, I was right on the height edge, and most petite clothes don't fit me, so I went with standard.

Just looking anatomically at the ratios, in general women have shorter arms and torsos than men. Women's center of gravity is going to be much lower, of course. Womens power generally comes from the legs and mens from the upper torso - which is why you see so many guys playing golf with just their arms and still whacking it 200 yards, but you rarely see a woman not using her lower body. Obviously this is in general.

For me, I'm 5'2" with shorter arms. Yet I'm swinging a 45" driver that came with my Solaire set with great success, while a lot of the men here who are definitely taller than I am are cutting theirs down to 44 and 43". Probably because of the length of my arms compared to the rest of me, and possibly being a little more flexy than some.

I really don't know much more than that, but I'm definitely fascinated by the topic (and not just for selfish reasons haha).
 
I got my wife a petite set for her first set of clubs. She gets along with them great, but feels like she is ready to upgrade. Now she wants to move to a more complete set, but the selections are few. There seems to be no middle ground regarding cost. You either spend a lot or a little.
 
I believe when I was looking for Altitudes, that the women's were the same as the men's setup, only with a different paint fill and different shafts.
 
My local range is a Ping fitter, and Ping seem like they are doing it as well as anyone and better than most.

The range have some of the South Essex girls junior golf teams over there regularly for short game work on the Mini Links attached to it, the girls warm up on the range first, and as a consequence, the mens-womens ratio of clubs on display is close to 60-40. Ping is easily the most popular brand with the girls on the teams.
 
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