ProZoneGolf
Clubmaker/Fitter
Consider the Cally shafts pulled, then installed in the MP5's?...could save you some $, and be more familliar
Blades Vs Cavity Back
Consider the Cally shafts pulled, then installed in the MP5's?...could save you some $, and be more familliar
- Thread starter
- #227
Yeap.
All options are currently on the table.
Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk
Scrap Iron
On The Eh Team
I believe Kenny Perry was winning with some Adams Redlined because gi sets are that good. Wait a second maybe it's the players using the irons that are so good.
Yeap.
All options are currently on the table.
Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk
I believe the MP-5s take taper tip shafts (.355 hosel), while the Tour-V 90s are going to be parallel tip shafts (.370).
- Thread starter
- #230
Franklin51
On the Verge
Played the TM Burner 2.0s too
ProZoneGolf
Clubmaker/Fitter
Blades Vs Cavities Stats: Langer / Perry
NB: Perry bombs the driver long...and has shorter approach shots
Lets look at stats; only irons / approach shots /approach distances
Champ Tour
Bernard Langer is #1 in ball striking. #1 in GIR 75.62% hit 722 greens
Kenny Perry is #9 in ball striking. #7 in GIR 73.43% hit 608 greens
NB: This is iron / approach shots and unrelated to winning... driving putting pitching sand chipping etc.
Langer drives it 15 yards shorter than Perry 281y vs 297y. Langer is using Blades / Hogan Apex 1999 long irons to hit greens from a lot further out. Not only has Langer a longer shot to be hit by 1-1/2 - 2 clubs, he is more accurate as well. Quite a feat. Perry is less accurate, from 15y closer with cavities he plays.
On the PGA Tour were total yardages are longer off the tee, and greens are longer to hit with longer irons Langer GIR 70.1%, were Perry's Drops to 61.4%, this speaks even more about Langers long iron game...its incredible
Both Langer and Perry are excellent players...ones uses blades has less power, the other uses cavities and has more power
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- Admin
- #233
Im confused here. Are you really advocating someone should play an iron strictly because Bernhard Langer players it and has success with it?
If that is the case, why not take a look at Jordan Spieth's bag? Or any other top quality golfer?
Im all for playing what you want. I think its fantastic actually. But lets use some common sense in regards to trying to quantify something.
If that is the case, why not take a look at Jordan Spieth's bag? Or any other top quality golfer?
Im all for playing what you want. I think its fantastic actually. But lets use some common sense in regards to trying to quantify something.
ProZoneGolf
Clubmaker/Fitter
Your reading into a assumption that was not posted above....'please review my post'... I said the Hogan 3,4,5 irons were that good. I did not say 'everyone should play them'
Since this post is about blades Vs cavities I posted stats on a posted said player 'Perry' Vs Langer. Both are senior tour players, similar age. One plays blades one plays cavities. Actually the stats were quite impressive toward Langer who plays blades.
Lets keep it professional...like Golf. Readers are encouraged to chime in on their games, clubs and what works for them, and what they are working/improving on
Lower or getting lower Handicap's has a lot to do with playing more advanced equipment. Perhaps some lower Hcpers comment differently on their blade experiences than high hcpers
People do use stats to quantify equipment...like GIR, Proximity to the hole, dispersion, miss hits, LA etc etc
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- Moderator
- #235
I would suspect you're right. There's a reason why companies categorize their irons into skill, and why informed golfers like THPers are going to lean towards the clubs that help their game.
While I personally lean towards the bladed design, I do not believe I speak for the majority here. At all. Maybe a five percenter?
Double
New member
I don't think I've seen anyone on these forums suggesting any person, irrespective of their skill level, should be playing blades.
I don't believe there is anything a blade will do that a cavity back won't. Specifically speaking towards an AP2, S55, or similar cavity back. Other than aesthetics, which are very important, I don't believe blades offer anything real useful.
Double
New member
While I respect your right to your opinion, are you not in fact saying that MB and blades are inferior because they lack much of the forgiveness of cavity back irons?
If we're going to look at one or two players - the top ball striker in 2014 and 2015 on the PGA tour (Stenson) plays irons that are very much in the cavity back camp.
To me this is all about "play what you want". Heck, I learned on an old set of my father's blades growing up - it's probably part of the reason I tend to gravitate towards clubs that are a little more compact than what's probably the best for my game at my current handicap and level of ability. I'd actually be interested in playing a round with a set of bladed irons to see how I did. I remember Hawk making a point that he'd be in the same ballpark with most sets of irons. I think that's largely true for me, though I wonder if a truly bladed iron would be the cutoff point for me where I saw a noticeable difference.
To me this is all about "play what you want". Heck, I learned on an old set of my father's blades growing up - it's probably part of the reason I tend to gravitate towards clubs that are a little more compact than what's probably the best for my game at my current handicap and level of ability. I'd actually be interested in playing a round with a set of bladed irons to see how I did. I remember Hawk making a point that he'd be in the same ballpark with most sets of irons. I think that's largely true for me, though I wonder if a truly bladed iron would be the cutoff point for me where I saw a noticeable difference.
T2GRN18
Active member
Crappy swings produce crappy results. How crappy the results are is determined by how how bad the swing was and how forgiving the club is. But what I call poor results may not be so bad for someone else. One mans trash is another mans treasure. Play what you want to play and leave the the pontificating and filibustering to the worthless in politics.
I never said inferior. Ball speed retention will be better off of a cavity iron than a blade. That's not an opinion.
What is my opinion, other than aesthetics, blades do no offer anything that a cavity iron does not.
I mostly agree, but you could add trajectory control and workability to the very very shot list that a blade has over a cb. Again, only the best of the best can notice this and take advantage of the possible benefit. Kenny Perry had the Ping G30 irons in his back this past weekend at the Franklin Templeton. To me, that speaks volumes.
ProZoneGolf
Clubmaker/Fitter
Here is my CB / Blade story. I had Ping S55's for a year, prior to that was J40 CB / Aerotech i110s, Before that Adams CMB S300, Before that Mizuno MP 64's S300.
Last Year with Ping S55's I played inter-club comps, and booked 107 games on golf now, not to mention my buddies bookings and range and practice.
The only benefit with S55's was ball speed on miss hits. However I have almost negated that with blades by swinging through the ball to a good finish and don't loose much / if any distance on Blade miss hits now. I am not slapping at shots, but putting a good swing through the ball. I am still very close to pin high on a Hogan Blade miss hit. long as I am swinging through the ball solid.
With Ping S55's I did not know exactly where on the green the flight would be landing within 10-20 feet tops. I would put a good swing on the ball, then look up for the outcome, some shots were great, but generally my proximity to the hole was further out, than with Hogans. S55's did not work for me hitting greens tight. I pulled the exact same shafts KBS Tour V 120x SS1x that I brought for the Ping S55's to tighten dispersion and lower spin. Did that work? Yes the Ping S55's played better with them, but they were still cavities
Upon bagging Hogan 1999 Apex Blades it was evident the very first swing what I was missing 'dispersion'. Now I am making birdies, and 'a lot' more of them! My lofts/lie were the same as I have my own loft n lie bending machine, and have played the same exact lofts 20+ years, and know my distances via Bushnell...remember the Bushnell bi-nocks?
I glued the KBS Tour V 120x SS1x that I had in the S55's in the Hogans in the exact same orientation, as I put a sharpie dot at 12 o clock before pulling them.
Dispersion was night n day with Hogan 1999's Vs S55's, distance control was better too. Now I am playing Rifle FCM 6.5's the old model not PX. They are a tad softer in flex, as my dispersion is so good I don't need the tighter / lower torque Tour V profile.
Look at my Hcp stats below, the jumps are shaft changes with Hogans (TourV, Fcm 6.4, FCM 6.5), and lately my hcp is up 1 due to the fact I have been driver changing 815 to 816 / GBB
My game stats below shows the Hogans Blades were a very good change away from Cavities
My driver SS is 100-105, 7i 160-165
Foe me, I dropped 2 shots per round in about a year bagging Ben Hogan 1999 Apex Blades. Stats do matter, and its all about hitting greens close to the hole, if you want to go low. It just depends do you have the game to bag blades...if you don't...go practice. I believe blades have better work ability, distance control & tighter dispersion.
Most if not all people play blades...its called a wedge at 35.5, why not play a blade that is 2 inches longer to 6i (37.5). So your telling me you can't handle a blade 2 inches longer?
Last Year with Ping S55's I played inter-club comps, and booked 107 games on golf now, not to mention my buddies bookings and range and practice.
The only benefit with S55's was ball speed on miss hits. However I have almost negated that with blades by swinging through the ball to a good finish and don't loose much / if any distance on Blade miss hits now. I am not slapping at shots, but putting a good swing through the ball. I am still very close to pin high on a Hogan Blade miss hit. long as I am swinging through the ball solid.
With Ping S55's I did not know exactly where on the green the flight would be landing within 10-20 feet tops. I would put a good swing on the ball, then look up for the outcome, some shots were great, but generally my proximity to the hole was further out, than with Hogans. S55's did not work for me hitting greens tight. I pulled the exact same shafts KBS Tour V 120x SS1x that I brought for the Ping S55's to tighten dispersion and lower spin. Did that work? Yes the Ping S55's played better with them, but they were still cavities
Upon bagging Hogan 1999 Apex Blades it was evident the very first swing what I was missing 'dispersion'. Now I am making birdies, and 'a lot' more of them! My lofts/lie were the same as I have my own loft n lie bending machine, and have played the same exact lofts 20+ years, and know my distances via Bushnell...remember the Bushnell bi-nocks?
I glued the KBS Tour V 120x SS1x that I had in the S55's in the Hogans in the exact same orientation, as I put a sharpie dot at 12 o clock before pulling them.
Dispersion was night n day with Hogan 1999's Vs S55's, distance control was better too. Now I am playing Rifle FCM 6.5's the old model not PX. They are a tad softer in flex, as my dispersion is so good I don't need the tighter / lower torque Tour V profile.
Look at my Hcp stats below, the jumps are shaft changes with Hogans (TourV, Fcm 6.4, FCM 6.5), and lately my hcp is up 1 due to the fact I have been driver changing 815 to 816 / GBB
My game stats below shows the Hogans Blades were a very good change away from Cavities
My driver SS is 100-105, 7i 160-165
Foe me, I dropped 2 shots per round in about a year bagging Ben Hogan 1999 Apex Blades. Stats do matter, and its all about hitting greens close to the hole, if you want to go low. It just depends do you have the game to bag blades...if you don't...go practice. I believe blades have better work ability, distance control & tighter dispersion.
Most if not all people play blades...its called a wedge at 35.5, why not play a blade that is 2 inches longer to 6i (37.5). So your telling me you can't handle a blade 2 inches longer?
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I think that technique shapes shots and controls trajectory. Not clubhead shape. Look at the WITB for the three guys that won majors in 2015. All of them had cavity irons in play. Rory won the Open Championship with cavity irons. That's my biggest takeaway, work on technique and shot shaping takes care of itself. I also believe that too many amateurs focus on shot shaping instead of consistency, but that is for a different thread.
- Moderator
- #245
Ehh... It's pretty subjective. There are certain styles of swings that can be better accommodated by added forgiveness, and there is definitely a little bit less predictability when switching between sets round after round only to have the more forgiving club introduce a straighter, slightly less predictable flight pattern purely based on the design elements.
But that's a conversation for a scratch or near scratch golfer. Like I said, the 5 percenter.
Scrap Iron
On The Eh Team
Here is my CB / Blade story. I had Ping S55's for a year, prior to that was J40 CB / Aerotech i110s, Before that Adams CMB S300, Before that Mizuno MP 64's S300.
Last Year with Ping S55's I played inter-club comps, and booked 107 games on golf now, not to mention my buddies bookings and range and practice.
The only benefit with S55's was ball speed on miss hits. However I have almost negated that with blades by swinging through the ball to a good finish and don't loose much / if any distance on Blade miss hits now. I am not slapping at shots, but putting a good swing through the ball. I am still very close to pin high on a Hogan Blade miss hit. long as I am swinging through the ball solid.
With Ping S55's I did not know exactly where on the green the flight would be landing within 10-20 feet tops. I would put a good swing on the ball, then look up for the outcome, some shots were great, but generally my proximity to the hole was further out, than with Hogans. S55's did not work for me hitting greens tight. I pulled the exact same shafts KBS Tour V 120x SS1x that I brought for the Ping S55's to tighten dispersion and lower spin. Did that work? Yes the Ping S55's played better with them, but they were still cavities
Upon bagging Hogan 1999 Apex Blades it was evident the very first swing what I was missing 'dispersion'. Now I am making birdies, and 'a lot' more of them! My lofts/lie were the same as I have my own loft n lie bending machine, and have played the same exact lofts 20+ years, and know my distances via Bushnell...remember the Bushnell bi-nocks? now its the newer models.
I glued the KBS Tour V 120x SS1x that I had in the S55's in the Hogans in the exact same orientation, as I put a sharpie dot at 12 o clock before pulling them. Dispersion was night n day with 99's Vs S55's, distance control was better too. Now I am playing Rifle FCM 6.5's the old model not PX. They are a tad softer in flex, as my dispersion is so good I don't need the tighter / lower torque Tour V profile.
Look at my Hcp stats, the jumps are shaft changes with Hogans (TourV, Fcm 6.4, FCM 6.5), and lately my hcp is up 1 due to the fact I have been driver changing 815 to 816 / GBB
My game below shows the Hogans Blades were a very good change away from Cavities
Foe me, I dropped 2 shots per round in about a year bagging Ben Hogan 1999 Apex Blades. Stats do matter, and its all about hitting greens close to the hole, if you want to go low. It just depends do you have the game to bag blades...if you don't...go practice. I believe blades have better work ability, distance control & tighter dispersion.
Bubba seems to do well with the S55. This is worse than cast vs forged. I'm out.
That's a good point. I'm wondering if it's going to take someone who's used to playing with blades longer to get used to the move to a different style iron than vice versa. 99.9% of the time I'm just playing my stock shot - blades are going to amplify a miss, but perform the same way. Someone who's used to a fully bladed iron moving to something that puts far less spin on the ball are probably going to have more surprises. Now, I'm talking here about taking probably one more step past player's CBs - not like the S55 or something, more like moving to an i25/Vapor Pro Combo style iron.
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I agree. I believe that number may be even smaller than 5%, but that isn't the point really. But on the extreme side of it, the .01% of golfers (PGA Tour pros) can shape and control a cavity iron just fine. I recognize there is a difference between the cavity design of an AP2 and the Apex CF16.
- Moderator
- #249
I should also note that my experiences haven't really been with simple CBs... I don't think the margin between the Mizuno MP-5 I just finished testing vs the Bridgestone J15 CB is big at all. In fact it's pretty minuscule. It's when you move from the MP-5 to let's say an Apex, or an XR pro. The results, as well as the misses, are notably different.
But, it doesn't take terribly long for a good golfer to adapt and score well with either option - As long as the shaft suits their game for spin/launch.
ProZoneGolf
Clubmaker/Fitter
Ping S55's are cast yes but their metal is a lot softer than other harder castings. Bubba never changes his clubs, nor do ping make a blade either, which he's paid to play Ping's, prior to S55's he played another ping cavity model for years. Perhaps that's why he finishes so high to counter the offset?
Whats apparent in this thread so far is some+5 Hcpers commenting on a iron they have no business playing (unless they plan to get better, and practice 'alot')
According to Mizuno you should be <5 hcp to bag blades, so should readers really be taking blade comments/ blade iron experience's from players that are not below a 5 hcp...answer NO! ..Perhaps they can comment on other players who are below 5...like my Langer Perry example, specifically analyzing Ball striking GIR no other part of their game, like winning.
Most blade players can comment on cavities, we have been there done that...we might even go back to cavities if our game turns to Shi*, we get older and lose SS or we have less time to play golf
I am going on 49 and bagging blades...I have a good swing plane, flat wrist, range of motion. I train in a PVC swing ring every other day. I would buy one and see the light!
Whats apparent in this thread so far is some+5 Hcpers commenting on a iron they have no business playing (unless they plan to get better, and practice 'alot')
According to Mizuno you should be <5 hcp to bag blades, so should readers really be taking blade comments/ blade iron experience's from players that are not below a 5 hcp...answer NO! ..Perhaps they can comment on other players who are below 5...like my Langer Perry example, specifically analyzing Ball striking GIR no other part of their game, like winning.
Most blade players can comment on cavities, we have been there done that...we might even go back to cavities if our game turns to Shi*, we get older and lose SS or we have less time to play golf
I am going on 49 and bagging blades...I have a good swing plane, flat wrist, range of motion. I train in a PVC swing ring every other day. I would buy one and see the light!
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