Tiger's graphite shafts too stiff ?

DG_1234

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Too often Tiger's driver swing tempo-rhythm is fast-jerky, which can be a result of swinging too stout of a shaft.
This season Tiger's 3-wood tee shot rhythm-tempo has been better than his driver when , but it's still not as good as when he swings an iron. In his prime, Tiger had consistently smooth tempo throughout the bag.
My point is that often times equipment specs actually influence a players swing tempo-rhythm, and it's usually best to go a bit softer than too stout.
Your thoughts ?
Mods, if this topic belongs in the "Tiger thread" please move it there, thanks.
 
It’s fine where it is, but I would disagree about his shaft being too stiff for him or his tempo.
 
Most of Tiger’s old highlights have him swinging in a pretty similar manner. It looks like he tries to get every inch of performance on his highlight shots. On his “easy” shots, it looks a more standard. Maybe that’s just the way he prefers to swing or has to swing to manufacture the shot he wants. For example, last week’s shot out of the fairway bunker over the lip and tree. He needed to elevate it quickly and he took a Ruthian swing at it. But it does seem like his preference for horsing shots is leaking into more and more shots. Whatever the reason for that little extra, I’m sure he’s been fitted extensively.
 
Most of Tiger’s old highlights have him swinging in a pretty similar manner. It looks like he tries to get every inch of performance on his highlight shots. On his “easy” shots, it looks a more standard. Maybe that’s just the way he prefers to swing or has to swing to manufacture the shot he wants. For example, last week’s shot out of the fairway bunker over the lip and tree. He needed to elevate it quickly and he took a Ruthian swing at it. But it does seem like his preference for horsing shots is leaking into more and more shots. Whatever the reason for that little extra, I’m sure he’s been fitted extensively.

I don't remember Tiger's driver swing ever having the "flinch" it often does now. From his teenage years through his early pro years his driver swing was smooth tempo.
The first time I noticed Tiger struggling with rhythm-tempo was when he made the switch from steel shafts to graphite, and I think that was about year 2002 or 2003. He did win a lot of tournaments with graphite, but I think his driver swing did suffer a negative impact from that change.
I'm not suggesting Tiger go back to swinging a steel shafted driver. But, I think if he played some rounds with a shaft not quite as stout as the one he's been using he might find that helps him to find a smoother tempo and rhythm.
Another possible option is to primarily swing 3 wood off the par 4 and par 5 tee boxes. His swing tempo-rhythm has been noticeable better when he swings the 3 wood or driving iron.
Back in 2006 Tiger won the British Open without ever swinging a driver. I realize British Open courses have lots of bounce and roll, completely different from US park land style courses, but that week Tiger's swing tempo-rhythm was beautiful throughout the bag. Sometimes taking driver out of the bag, and eliminating that hit-it-hard swing, ends up helping a player swing well all the clubs within the bag.
I do believe that Tiger strikes his 3 wood and, or, driving iron long enough to shoot 65 on any of the world's courses.
 
I don't remember Tiger's driver swing ever having the "flinch" it often does now. From his teenage years through his early pro years his driver swing was smooth tempo.
The first time I noticed Tiger struggling with rhythm-tempo was when he made the switch from steel shafts to graphite, and I think that was about year 2002 or 2003. He did win a lot of tournaments with graphite, but I think his driver swing did suffer a negative impact from that change.
I'm not suggesting Tiger go back to swinging a steel shafted driver. But, I think if he played some rounds with a shaft not quite as stout as the one he's been using he might find that helps him to find a smoother tempo and rhythm.
Another possible option is to primarily swing 3 wood off the par 4 and par 5 tee boxes. His swing tempo-rhythm has been noticeable better when he swings the 3 wood or driving iron.
Back in 2006 Tiger won the British Open without ever swinging a driver. I realize British Open courses have lots of bounce and roll, completely different from US park land style courses, but that week Tiger's swing tempo-rhythm was beautiful throughout the bag. Sometimes taking driver out of the bag, and eliminating that hit-it-hard swing, ends up helping a player swing well all the clubs within the bag.
I do believe that Tiger strikes his 3 wood and, or, driving iron long enough to shoot 65 on any of the world's courses.

Unfortunately I never got to see him swing with an iron shafted driver. I only remember him playing with graphite and I’ve always remembered him having a slightly John Daly-esque grip it and rip it approach. Although his swings are much more consistent, his rips made it to SportsCenter’s highlight reel. That’s probably why I associate him with that powerful hitting swing and why I connect Tiger and Daly.
 
 
This could qualify for top ten most internety golf topics of the year...

Tiger.....woods.....his shafts are too stiff? he’s a tour player. They know what they’re doing.............I think


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Unfortunately I never got to see him swing with an iron shafted driver. I only remember him playing with graphite and I’ve always remembered him having a slightly John Daly-esque grip it and rip it approach. Although his swings are much more consistent, his rips made it to SportsCenter’s highlight reel. That’s probably why I associate him with that powerful hitting swing and why I connect Tiger and Daly.

Tiger's swing has always been powerful, no question about that.
But in his junior, collegiate, and early pro years he swung with a fluid-smooth tempo. Here is a video of Tiger's swinging driver during his 1997 Master victory, see 2:29:40 mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4P5_Ld07sMA

And here he is swinging driver during his 2000 US Open victory at Pebble Beach :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8ORRvlV7W8
 
This could qualify for top ten most internety golf topics of the year...

Tiger.....woods.....his shafts are too stiff? he’s a tour player. They know what they’re doing.............I think


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Tour players are human and do make questionable decisions.
It's not uncommon for Tour players to make equipment changes, swing technique and, or, swing instructor changes etc.... which end up having a negative effect on their tournament scoring.
Regarding Tiger specifically, probably the most significant questionable golf-related change he made was leaving Butch Harmon.
 
Tour players are human and do make questionable decisions.
It's not uncommon for Tour players to make equipment changes, swing technique and, or, swing instructor changes etc.... which end up having a negative effect on their tournament scoring.
Regarding Tiger specifically, probably the most significant questionable golf-related change he made was leaving Butch Harmon.

Leaving butch may be questionable but that’s not the topic of this thread....

Every single tour player has the opportunity to have literally every single facet of their game, swing, shaft, loft, lie, grind etc etc etc tweaked. If you want to argue theres a swing flaw I can get on board with that discussion. But insinuating that his shafts are too stiff also insinuates he doesn’t get every single facet of his game customized for him. He and every other tour player do and if they don’t they’re foolish. It just seems like an odd conversation to have. He hasn’t won but he has improved substantially since last year and has been in contention in numerous events. Maybe he doesn’t have the killer mentality he used to but to talk about an equipment issue as being a problem seems a bit of a reach. It’s almost as silly as saying he should go back and play all the same equipment he had and same specs he had back in 97-00-03 etc.


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Yeah I can't say I see it the same way either OP. Its a almost dead certainty that he has the correct shaft flex for his game. Wasn't he clocked at just south of 130mph CHS earlier this year? Pretty hard to find anything that's too stout for that level short of hanging with the Long Drive circuit guys.
 
Yeah I can't say I see it the same way either OP. Its a almost dead certainty that he has the correct shaft flex for his game. Wasn't he clocked at just south of 130mph CHS earlier this year? Pretty hard to find anything that's too stout for that level short of hanging with the Long Drive circuit guys.

My point is that the shaft often dictates and promotes how a player swings the club.
For example, if a highly skilled player was given three drivers; one with a regular flex shaft, one with a stiff, and one with an extra stiff flex, he would make adjustments. After a swing or two with each flex he would make adjustments to his swing rhythm and tempo so as to be able to properly time the swing for the flex shaft he was playing.
My observation of Tiger this year is that with most driver swings he appears to be working way too hard to make the driver perform for him. It's possible that if he swung a less stout shaft, this would help him to find a more effective and consistent driver swing rhythm-tempo.
Another option is to just take driver out of the bag and play the par 4 and par 5 tee box shots with 3-wood or driving iron. Besides hitting more fairways, the other significant benefit of this option is that (by completely eliminating any hit-it-hard driver swings) the player's swing rhythm-tempo improves for all clubs within the bag.
 
As someone who swings 120+ (you can see my numbers in the Aldila Rogue 130 thread) I can assure you that going softer is NOT a good thing. I don’t swing any slower or smoother, I just torque the shaft so much that my dispersion doubles.

Most of the guys I play with that swing in that realm say the same thing. Softer shafts just don’t feel right and make matters worse.

ETA - Tiger swings faster than me (124-128) and has ballspeeds in the 180’s.
 
As someone who swings 120+ (you can see my numbers in the Aldila Rogue 130 thread) I can assure you that going softer is NOT a good thing. I don’t swing any slower or smoother, I just torque the shaft so much that my dispersion doubles.

Most of the guys I play with that swing in that realm say the same thing. Softer shafts just don’t feel right and make matters worse.

ETA - Tiger swings faster than me (124-128) and has ballspeeds in the 180’s.

Took the words out of my mouth. I still play in the same range, and I'm not sure what would happen if I took a mighty swipe with a R-flex driver. Well I kind of know, my dad bought a new driver recently and I took a couple swings with it. I was only swinging in the 110 range for those swings and it had the trajectory of a PW, and those are only the ones that I didn't snap hook. I will say, it was a higher snap hook then I am used to though..:)

Different shafts have different profiles though and one manufactures X-flex may be equal to another's TS-flex. I have one that can in an older driver I bought new that's an X-flex. If you were to just wiggle it around you'd swear it was a R-flex. Even swinging it it feels like a noodle. I doubt your Rogue 130 feels like a noodle though (and I'm jealous!:)).
 
As someone who swings 120+ (you can see my numbers in the Aldila Rogue 130 thread) I can assure you that going softer is NOT a good thing. I don’t swing any slower or smoother, I just torque the shaft so much that my dispersion doubles.

Most of the guys I play with that swing in that realm say the same thing. Softer shafts just don’t feel right and make matters worse.

ETA - Tiger swings faster than me (124-128) and has ballspeeds in the 180’s.

The concept only works for a player willing and able to make adjustments to their golf swing. One "tipped X-flex" guy I sometimes play with goes as hard at the ball as anybody I've ever seen. When he is "on" it's fun to watch, long straight drives and approach shots stuck all day long. But that super fast paced swing of his is very hard to time right week after week, month after month, so he did not make it as a playing professional and now just plays amateur golf events. There is no way this guy is going to change his swing pace-tempo, he just does not want to entertain the idea, so trying less stout shafts would not make sense for him.
For Tiger I am not suggesting any sort of drastic shaft flex change. I don't know his current graphite driver brand name or specs, but a slight change such as different kick point or less tipping might be helpful.
I do believe he made his consistently best driver swings with the 43" or 43.5" steel, I think it was DG X100, on the smallish Cobra and Titleist 975D D driver heads he played through the 1990's and into the early 2000's.
At age 42 he is probably too old to go back to those specs, but there should be a graphite shafted large driver head set up that will now be a good sensible fit for him.
 
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The concept only works for a player willing and able to make adjustments to their golf swing. One "tipped X-flex" guy I sometimes play with goes as hard at the ball as anybody I've ever seen. When he is "on" it's fun to watch, long straight drives and approach shots stuck all day long. But that super fast paced swing of his is very hard to time right week after week, month after month, so he did not make it as a playing professional and now just plays amateur golf events. There is no way this guy is going to change his swing pace-tempo, he just does not want to entertain the idea, so trying less stout shafts would not make sense for him.
For Tiger I am not suggesting any sort of drastic shaft flex change. I don't know his current graphite driver brand name or specs, but a slight change such as different kick point or less tipping might be helpful.
I do believe he made his consistently best driver swings with the 43" or 43.5" steel, I think it was DG X100, on the smallish Cobra and Titleist 975D D driver heads he played through the 1990's and into the early 2000's.
At age 42 he is probably too old to go back to those specs, but there should be a graphite shafted large driver head set up that will now be a good sensible fit for him.

He plays the tensei orange 70x not sure length. Tiger is a guy who knows his specs well and when something is off. There’s a story about the day he hit his current Tm Proto irindthat he told the truck guys they were 1/2* off and they kinda laughed but went in to the truck and checked and sure enough they were 1/2* off. There’s no way tiger is playing anything that is wrong for him.
 
He plays the tensei orange 70x not sure length. Tiger is a guy who knows his specs well and when something is off. There’s a story about the day he hit his current Tm Proto irindthat he told the truck guys they were 1/2* off and they kinda laughed but went in to the truck and checked and sure enough they were 1/2* off. There’s no way tiger is playing anything that is wrong for him.

I read a story about how Nike was making a spare 3wood for Tiger and he mentioned that one looked too small. The tour van guys got calipers out, one was smaller by small ungodly small margin.
 
I was listening to Hank Haney on XM a few days ago and he said Tiger has changed shafts a couple times as his swing has changed through this swing transformation. So I think it unlikely he's using ill-fitted shafts.
 
My point is that the shaft often dictates and promotes how a player swings the club.
For example, if a highly skilled player was given three drivers; one with a regular flex shaft, one with a stiff, and one with an extra stiff flex, he would make adjustments. After a swing or two with each flex he would make adjustments to his swing rhythm and tempo so as to be able to properly time the swing for the flex shaft he was playing.
My observation of Tiger this year is that with most driver swings he appears to be working way too hard to make the driver perform for him. It's possible that if he swung a less stout shaft, this would help him to find a more effective and consistent driver swing rhythm-tempo.
Another option is to just take driver out of the bag and play the par 4 and par 5 tee box shots with 3-wood or driving iron. Besides hitting more fairways, the other significant benefit of this option is that (by completely eliminating any hit-it-hard driver swings) the player's swing rhythm-tempo improves for all clubs within the bag.

Tiger is notorious for never ever changing his swing to fit a club or shaft.
 
I don't think it's the shafts. I think it's that Tiger just isn't good enough any more (relative to the competition).
 
I don't think it's the shafts. I think it's that Tiger just isn't good enough any more (relative to the competition).

And yet he had a better Open than several top ranked players and has jumped up the fedex cup points without a win. In 13 events he has 4 top 10 including 3 top 5 and 2 missed cuts and most of his finishes are top 25. For someone who has barley played especially competitively he ha a shown he can still play in 13 events. His driving was never accurate and he won with hitting shots from the rough or from trouble that no one else could and clutch putting.

It's not the shaft and probably isn't the swing and more so his approach and mentality.
 
Tiger is an equipment nut. No way he's playing the wrong shafts for him. Just depends on what he is trying to accomplish like eliminating the left side of the golf course!
 
I still remember hitting a hybrid in Iowa that had a women's shaft in it better than I've probably ever hit a hybrid before. LOL. @Jrod and I were hitting it and laughing cause it was so straight and long. Should have taken that club and put it in my bag straight away.
 
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