You mean like Phil Mickelson just did moving to Apex pros?
Blades Vs Cavity Back
You mean like Phil Mickelson just did moving to Apex pros?
Yes, I realized my first sentence made no sense with regards to what I was trying to say. I was trying to say if someone who's been playing blades forever gave something with a significantly different profile (I'm note even sure the Apex Pros go that far, to be honest - like Dan said - I think they're in the same ballpark as the J15CBs), it might take them longer than going the other way, just because they're used to the nuances of how those clubs react.
You really think .09" of offset in a 7 iron needs to be countered?
wow this dead horse still manages to make it 17 pages is beyond me. if you want to play blades, play blades. if you stick with blades, great. i know a lot more people who changed because eventually they (read i) realized they're not that good so why make the game harder than it needs to be. if you stick with them, it's because you like the way they look and the confidence they inspire, which is, in my opinion, the ONLY reason to bag blades.
- Moderator
- #255
THP has always been open for anyone to discuss clubs regardless of skill. And if you're making the designation of handicap, I believe your 4.8 index puts you at a 6 handicap on most courses, making your own opinion irrelevant (based on your arguments).
But Jason Dufner plays cavity backs and finishes low left.Ping S55's are cast yes but their metal is a lot softer than other harder castings. Bubba never changes his clubs, nor do ping make a blade either, which he's paid to play Ping's, prior to S55's he played another ping cavity model for years. Perhaps that's why he finishes so high to counter the offset?
Whats apparent in this thread so far is some+5 Hcpers commenting on a iron they have no business playing (unless they plan to get better, and practice 'alot')
According to Mizuno you should be <5 hcp to bag blades, so should readers really be taking blade comments/ blade iron experience's from players that are not below a 5 hcp...answer NO! ..Perhaps they can comment on other players who are below 5...like my Langer Perry example, specifically analyzing Ball striking GIR no other part of their game, like winning.
Most blade players can comment on cavities, we have been there done that...we might even go back to cavities if our game turns to Shi*, we get older and lose SS or we have less time to play golf
I am going on 49 and bagging blades...I have a good swing plane, flat wrist, range of motion. I train in a PVC swing ring every other day. I would buy one and see the light!
Double
New member
In my humble opinion this sentence underlies this whole debate. I personally don't believe that either style of club head to be superior, only different to another... and if more perimeter weighting has it's advantages in the case of CB then surely this must also be at a cost elsewhere. I tentatively suggest that ball speed would likely be greater from a purred strike from a MB iron as an example as the mass is located for that very purpose.
- Moderator
- #258
Based on previous posts, I think he does, and that's totally fine. Some folks are of the 'grip it and rip it' mindset, and others are of the technological mindset of dialing it to death. I don't think either is right, or that those who fall in the middle of that spectrum are more sensible, it's just how we prefer to perceive the game.
Offset is a very visible thing -- And I think that's why some focus so hard on it.
I don't disagree with the thought process, but it is wrong. Looking at current iron offerings, CB and GI irons specifically have higher CORs
- Moderator
- #260
That would be an interesting comparison. A tough one, no doubt, but an interesting one.
The way I see it (as a guy who has been scratch for a majority of the year), I want a club that will accommodate a miss enough to retain some ball speed across the face, but still force me to produce a predictable, repeatable swing. This year has shown me that CBs are fully capable of accommodating anything I want to do with a golf club, however it is very hard to achieve my personal sound definition of a 'perfect' strike without using an MB or near MB.
So where does that take me personally? Still very much open to ideas. But I am not letting a handicap dictate what works for my game. I'll leave that to innovation.
- Admin
- #261
To explain where ball speed comes from to the end, would take a long time but I can try to help here. It of course is a result of contact, mass, COR and materials. Like many pure distance golf clubs, like drivers, etc. user stronger and thinner materials have helped create ball speeds that they never thought imaginable. In the last 3 years, that technology has moved to irons and has brought speeds never thought imagined. In doing so, they have been able to move CG further back allowing for more forgiveness, which in turn produced a higher flight, which in turn allowed them to move lofts lower to create the correct launch.
Most people believe that a perimeter weighted club has more forgiveness because of weight around the outside, but the truth is that is not actually the case. Just a small part of it.
Hope that helps.
ProZoneGolf
Clubmaker/Fitter
I am just stating what Mizuno says...I am usually low 3, but jumped up while changing drivers over the last month. I usually play from the black tips...however at my age it should be blue. I play a variety of courses not just one, we try to play different tracks. My Hcp is last 20 games from 7 different courses.
So should a higher hcps's going over 5, 10, 15, 20+ hcp say blades are not advised for anyone?
Yes THP is a great site and all is open to all to discuss anything. It would be beneficial to the readers to tell a little about your cavity / blade experience, along with info about your swing/game and handicap.
Last year MP4's were recommended to a 4 hcp, now MP5's are recommended to a 5 hcp, the playability of blades with new technology is getting better than ever before
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- Moderator
- #263
I am not really sure why Mizuno designates 0 as a baseline but I am not sure they are intending to say that sub 0 should not play them. That seems kind of ridiculous. Either way, the blade vs cavity back argument of today is wildly different than it was 10 years ago.. Hell it's wildly different than it was THREE years ago.
Tech is going to shut the door on forgiveness being for weaker golf swings. I am confident of that.
-CRW-
Well-known member
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I'm in the camp that people should play what they want/like, but I don't see any advantage to a blade iron for anyone after reviewing statistics. If you go back and look at Tour Stats for 2015 there are only a handful of guys that play any irons (even scoring irons) that are blades. This includes stats like GIR's, proximity to the hole, scoring, etc. Almost all of the top players use some form of a cavity back, some are more "muscle-cavity" style but those aren't true blades in my mind.
I'm not suggesting that switching to a blade would hurt any of these pro's stats, but apparently CB's work just as well for them since they are selecting irons that bring home the bacon for them and the majority pick some form of CB.
I'm not suggesting that switching to a blade would hurt any of these pro's stats, but apparently CB's work just as well for them since they are selecting irons that bring home the bacon for them and the majority pick some form of CB.
I have 2 friends in their mid 30's. One always has the lastest Nike forged cavity clubs. My other buddy plays old cleveland blades he has had since college. The both are a +3 at least handicap. There are so so so so many choices when it comes to clubs. Everyone has their own preference. Thats the best part of this game is there are endless ways to make par. If you like blades play blades. No write or wrong answer here.
Double
New member
Thank you! I think it's a sorry day all round if high handicappers such as myself feel they can't contribute to threads such as this. I'm grateful to learn something along the way as well!
- Moderator
- #267
You should always feel free to share your opinion on this site. ALWAYS. We're all hackers, some just a bit more vocal than others!
I find this whole discussion very entertaining. I played muscles backs for nearly all of the last 38 years and this year switched to my first real GI irons, my XR Pros. Although my average proximity to the hole on an iron approach has improved, it didn't improve enough to change my index. In fact my index is slightly higher than it was a year ago but that's not the fault of my irons or any of my other clubs. I guess what I'm saying is we are splitting hairs on this debate, both designs have merits but it still boils down to how consistently you can deliver the club face through impact. I'm headed to Florida soon for a 2 week vacation and will be leaving all my clubs at home. I'll be playing my old set of Wilson FG V2's along with an old Mizuno driver and I don't even remember what putter. I will report back if I score any different or miss the extra forgiveness of my XR Pros, but experience tells me I won't. My golf shoes I would miss so I'm bringing those with me. I certainly think it's a disadvantage for a bogey golfer to play blades, but I say play whatever suits your eye.
ProZoneGolf
Clubmaker/Fitter
I would be willing to shaft up a demo blade 6i with say a DG S300 a would post it to single digit THP'ers to try. From there they could fwd it to the next interested reader. If its in a smaller tube the ship would be $5-7
This could be better than hitting a few shots at the big box store net
This could be better than hitting a few shots at the big box store net
- Admin
- #270
They can also do so at every single THP Event out there with a FlightScope both on the range and course.
This way they know they are getting the right information, straight from trial.
ProZoneGolf
Clubmaker/Fitter
- Admin
- #272
I do not. There is Club Clash in Northern FL which is huge.
There is our live testing unofficial event in Tampa.
There are events all over the country and each one has a designated thread. The full calendar will have its own thread when all events are announced.
Every single THP Event is planned to be the most unique golf experience people can find anywhere. See The Grandaddy thread for a bit of a preview.
ProZoneGolf
Clubmaker/Fitter
Perhaps, (but by now way certain of this at all) this is because players like Spieth can hole 15-20 footers and would give up some closer proximity to the hole, and play cavities...for me I need to be inside 10ft for a decent birdie chance. PGA Tour players can putt!...me 1.68
You realize that the player who has the closest proximity to the hole out of the entire PGA tour right now plays a CB iron, right?