Sean Foley And Back Problems

DataDude

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How long before pros stop using this guy? Justin Rose now with a balky back. Hunter Mahan got a lot better under Foley, then his back went out and he disappeared. Of course the biggest back of all that was ruined by Foley’s technique is Tiger Woods. No one seems to question this, but I would not sacrifice my career for the extra distance and control players get for the 2 or 3 years before their back blows up with his swing.
 
this has been discussed a lot. there are some who agree, and others who do not. there's no way to directly correlate any of foley's ideas to back issues, as there are so many other potential causes (workout regiments, lifestyle, genetics, previously undetected injuries, etc). if he gets blamed for harming someone's back, then every teacher who has had a student get injured should get that blame as well. just my $0.02.
 
It has nothing to do with Foley's teaching. JR back tightened up on a flight from London. My back tighten up coming back from Costa Rica, Greg norman worked with Lead and has a bad back, Freddie Couples has a bad back. Els had a bought with back pain. Some golfers are just prone to have bad backs
 
How long before pros stop using this guy? Justin Rose now with a balky back. Hunter Mahan got a lot better under Foley, then his back went out and he disappeared. Of course the biggest back of all that was ruined by Foley’s technique is Tiger Woods. No one seems to question this, but I would not sacrifice my career for the extra distance and control players get for the 2 or 3 years before their back blows up with his swing.

Out of curiosity, do you blame Butch Harmon or Hank Haney for Tiger's knee problems?

As mentioned by Tadashi, there are so many other golfers out there with bad backs that aren't Foley students. One that he didn't mention that is a big name is Jason Day. Back injuries and golf just go together because of the amount of torque that is put on the back due to any type of golf swing (baseball is another sport that has a lot of bad backs).
 
Anecdotal information: I have never been in the same state as Sean Foley, and I have a bad back.
 
Anecdotal information: I have never been in the same state as Sean Foley, and I have a bad back.

I think Foley has been in Ohio before, so he might just be the cause of your bad back. :alien:
 
Out of curiosity, do you blame Butch Harmon or Hank Haney for Tiger's knee problems?

As mentioned by Tadashi, there are so many other golfers out there with bad backs that aren't Foley students. One that he didn't mention that is a big name is Jason Day. Back injuries and golf just go together because of the amount of torque that is put on the back due to any type of golf swing (baseball is another sport that has a lot of bad backs).

this is kind of off the specific topic in the op, but when you look at the finish position of guys in the 70s and 80s, i start to think that it's not the swing itself that is leading to more problems, but maybe the specific workouts these guys are doing. look at the positions that miller, watson, nicklaus, and other guys in the 70s and 80s were getting in. that reverse c position had to be HELL on their backs. yet many of those guys are still kicking a$$ on the senior tour. so maybe it's not the swing, but the type and intensity of workouts guys are doing now.

i'm not an expert on any of this, just thinking out loud.
 
Being an ambulatory biped is a pain in the sacrum.

That has nothing to do with Foley. Also, just my opinion, pro golfers have weak backs.
 
this is kind of off the specific topic in the op, but when you look at the finish position of guys in the 70s and 80s, i start to think that it's not the swing itself that is leading to more problems, but maybe the specific workouts these guys are doing. look at the positions that miller, watson, nicklaus, and other guys in the 70s and 80s were getting in. that reverse c position had to be HELL on their backs. yet many of those guys are still kicking a$$ on the senior tour. so maybe it's not the swing, but the type and intensity of workouts guys are doing now.

i'm not an expert on any of this, just thinking out loud.

It's definitely possible that it's the types and intensity of workouts. I just see plenty of golfers who I would imagine are not doing those types of workouts that have bad backs (Freddie, Ernie, etc.)
 
I bought Sean Foley's DVD, watched it twice, and tossed it. So I can't blame Foley.

I'd say these guys need more massages, more stretching, more fluids, and more ways to relax. But sometimes, a busy lifestyle or even a soft bed or sofa gets in the way. Soft beds/sofas will screw me up.
 
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It's not Foley or any one instructor. It is 100% about the guys chasing huge club head speeds and extreme distance to compete. Bodies falling apart is the new norm in top flight competitive golf.

If anyone is to blame, it is Tiger... he is the guy who made big distance a requirement to complete.
 
It's not Foley or any one instructor. It is 100% about the guys chasing huge club head speeds and extreme distance to compete. Bodies falling apart is the new norm in top flight competitive golf.

If anyone is to blame, it is Tiger... he is the guy who made big distance a requirement to complete.

Tiger is not the one who required big distance to compete, but maybe he prompted the change that technology was already going to bring. Correlation does not mean causation. The true blame would lie with the courses/PGA Tour/USGA who set up the yardages and tees and were trying to "Tiger-proof" the setups in the 2000s. They don't all have to have 520 yard par 4s and fairways rolling at 12s #RollBackTheMower.


And even before Tiger, Jack won many majors notably by outdriving the field, but they didn't give Augusta National 500 more yards because of that now did they...
 
i start to think that it's not the swing itself that is leading to more problems, but maybe the specific workouts these guys are doing.

This is my opinion on the matter. Not because working out is bad. But the workouts these pros are doing are bad. The sooner that people realize that sport specific workouts are useless at best and harmful at worst, the better.


Also, stretching is a waste of time. There is no proof that stretching prevents or helps recover from injuries.
 
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This is my opinion on the matter. Not because working out is bad. But the workouts these pros are doing are bad. The sooner that people realize that sport specific workouts are useless at best and harmful at worst, the better.


Also, stretch is a waste of time. There is no proof that stretch prevents or helps recover from injuries.

You’re kidding about stretching not helping prevent injury?! Right??
 
This is my opinion on the matter. Not because working out is bad. But the workouts these pros are doing are bad. The sooner that people realize that sport specific workouts are useless at best and harmful at worst, the better.


Also, stretch is a waste of time. There is no proof that stretch prevents or helps recover from injuries.

[[/I]


I am proof.
 
Not kidding. Stretching does not prevent injuries.
Does it provide peace of mind then? Because when I don't stretch and go immediately to hitting a bucket or a round of golf then I'm stiff/sore and sometime pull something.

When I stretch for 5 minutes prior to whatever I'm doing I feel great. Maybe it's a coincidence, but I firmly believe stretching helps prevent injuries. For me at least.
 
Does it provide peace of mind then? Because when I don't stretch and go immediately to hitting a bucket or a round of golf then I'm stiff/sore and sometime pull something.

When I stretch for 5 minutes prior to whatever I'm doing I feel great. Maybe it's a coincidence, but I firmly believe stretching helps prevent injuries. For me at least.

It may have a placebo effect. I would also bet, if you went from the car and put the peg in the ground and tried to rip a driver to back of the range, that would be a problem. Warming up is important, stretching just has not shown to actually provide any mechanism that will prevent injuries.

I will say, go be injury free. Keep doing whatever you have done that seems to help.
 
It may have a placebo effect. I would also bet, if you went from the car and put the peg in the ground and tried to rip a driver to back of the range, that would be a problem. Warming up is important, stretching just has not shown to actually provide any mechanism that will prevent injuries.

I will say, go be injury free. Keep doing whatever you have done that seems to help.
Everything I have seen agrees with you, a dynamic warm up is important, static stretching has little impact.
 
Does it provide peace of mind then? Because when I don't stretch and go immediately to hitting a bucket or a round of golf then I'm stiff/sore and sometime pull something.

When I stretch for 5 minutes prior to whatever I'm doing I feel great. Maybe it's a coincidence, but I firmly believe stretching helps prevent injuries. For me at least.

Generally a dynamic warmup - not held stretches - will do a better job at loosening you up for activity.
 
Blue, I believe that you believe this but athletes in many sports stretch before and/or after they practice or play. Isn't a warm up a form of stretching the muscles..What about yoga which at least for me leaves me feeling relaxed and much more flexible over time. Even when I use my Orange Whip aren't I performing a form of stretching the muscles. One of my kids was a college swimmer and she was stretched daily before and after every practice and lifting session as were her friends in other sports including golf.
 
Generally a dynamic warmup - not held stretches - will do a better job at loosening you up for activity.
I've been doing the same cheesy Michael Breed 5 minute stretch for about 2 years now. Wrists, shoulders, upper/lower back, hamstrings, quads, ankles. Then I just feel nice and loose before hitting some wedges to warm up. Just works for me and I feel better about it when I do those quirky stretches.
 
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