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Blades Vs Cavity Back

SuperStroke
cbaker2882 said:
Yea 60-70% GIR is crazy good. That's PGA tour level numbers. If that's true, I'd really take the own 125 campaign to heart. You should be shooting real low scores with that number.
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I'm a better than most driver. My ball is usually inside the 150 yard marker on the short municipal courses I play. I'm hitting mostly PW and AW onto the greens. In should be 60% in GIR.

But my chipping, pitching, putting and sand saves are handicap 30. Time to focus on. The short game. But six months ago I committed myself to a major swing change. We are half way there and starting to see the light.

These improvements in my ball striking have lead to my ability to enjoy the MP-5's. But now as always another area of weakness in my golf game has been exposed. Like most my handicap reflexes my weakness more the my strengths. So spring and summer it's time for a short game make over. But first I want to finish what I started and own my new swing.

Baby steps.


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Wicked Cool Bearded Man said:
I'm actually planning on going back to a combo set next season with the same blade make up in 8, 9, PW. I'm finding I need more forgiveness in the long irons .
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Those Cobra King Pros are sexy beasts.
 
JB said:
As you have brought up at a 20 handicap, are you doing a lot of shot shaping?
I would also say that if you are hitting the musclebacks the same distance as the XR Pros, you are definitely missing something on the XR Pros. Its almost not possible to get the same distance as i have tried this test numerous times.
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I know there has to be something I'm missing with the XR pros. I hit my vapor pro 7ir against Jakes(puttinforbird) XR pro 8ir same lofts. They go almost identical distance to my human eye as this was not on a monitor. So my question I guess would be what makes them and clubs like them "long".
 
Hox30 said:
I know there has to be something I'm missing with the XR pros. I hit my vapor pro 7ir against Jakes(puttinforbird) XR pro 8ir same lofts. They go almost identical distance to my human eye as this was not on a monitor. So my question I guess would be what makes them and clubs like them "long".
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You nailed it in theory. I know people believe lofts are just lowered to make a club marketed as longer. That's just not the case. Weight is moved further back, which in turn raises the ball flight, which in turn has the club go down in loft. So you can hit an 8 iron let's say just as far with the same launch angles as you previously hit a 7 iron. And you do this with a club that is more forgiving.

It's really no different than Taylormade last year with sldr saying that everybody needed to loft up to increase distance but in reverse.

Most people whether mental or otherwise are going to hit a 7 iron better than a 5 iron or 6 iron.
 
JB said:
You nailed it in theory. I know people believe lofts are just lowered to make a club marketed as longer. That's just not the case. Weight is moved further back, which in turn raises the ball flight, which in turn has the club go down in loft. So you can hit an 8 iron let's say just as far with the same launch angles as you previously hit a 7 iron. And you do this with a club that is more forgiving.

It's really no different than Taylormade last year with sldr saying that everybody needed to loft up to increase distance but in reverse.

Most people whether mental or otherwise are going to hit a 7 iron better than a 5 iron or 6 iron.
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Ok so the 8ir with a 7ir loft launches like an 8ir. If that makes sense
 
What about hotness across the face? Do GI irons tend to jump sometimes? I guess they are also more consistent at the extremities.
 
Hox30 said:
Ok so the 8ir with a 7ir loft launches like an 8ir. If that makes sense
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There are a lot of different factors.
If I had you an 8* driver and a 12* driver and say which one goes further?

You would say you need to hit them. Why? If loft is all that matters to distance, you would say that the 8* goes further.

Hope that helps explain it better
 
His XR's were longer in shaft length...+ 1 or something like that...seems like he's doing well with MP5's...

Johan learn Phils pitch, check out Phil's hinge and hold method, and next video his angle of attack depending thin or fluffy lies

 
ProZoneGolf said:
His XR's were longer in shaft length...+ 1 or something like that...seems like he's doing well with MP5's...

Johan learn Phils pitch, check out Phil's hinge and hold method, and next video his angle of attack depending thin or fluffy lies

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I actually had the MP-5's length matched to the XR Pro's.

This is the same length of club shaft I have used for over ten years since my back injury. In fact my XR Pro's are actually not even standard length but longer than standard. I have all my club extended to this length. It's a length where I can stand more upright and swing freely.

So the X-16, X-24 Hot, X2 Hot, XR Pro's, and the MP -5's are all the same length. I brought the 4i,6i,8i, and PW in to have the MP-5's matched length wise to my XR Pro's. I then had to extend the length of the 49*, 56*, 60* MP-T5 wedges by Mizuno to match the new length of the MP-5's.

I was testing the current setup and next week plan on gap testing and adjusting Lofts and lie angle to make sure the set of MP-5's are properly gapped.

So the earlier distance advantage of the XR Pro's associated with shaft lengths is not a factor. Lofts and club construction are the only difference. The XR Pro's are standard loft and lie angles, which already provided adequate gapping between the Irons AW - 4i

So at first the XR Pro's were 20 yards longer. Now maybe 5 yards.

Jmtc. In my bag. My swing etc.

IMHO.


PS. Also the shafts are. KBS Tour 120 in the MP -5's and KBS V-90 Tour in the XR Pro's. Both Stiff flex


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H3xu5 said:
What about hotness across the face? Do GI irons tend to jump sometimes? I guess they are also more consistent at the extremities.
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I have played blades, muscle cavities, cavity backs, and GI irons. The most "unexpected" shots have always been off of players irons. Only because, depending on the quality of the strike, the distances were rarely the same. Since ball speed retention is so much better off of GI clubs, distances are pretty uniform.
 
For me...I think distance control has a lot to do with how your strike through the ball, with a club that works for you. If you hit at it I think your miss hits fly shorter, if you strike through it with all motion moving through the ball, body, arms, core etc the ball just gets in the way. Range of motion is key, flexibility. I train my back swing forward swing in a swing ring, to eliminate bent elbows at the top while on plane, I am getting older now, but keeping swing flexible fit is key. its like golf yoga, don't get stiff, bent arms n rusty. I negate a lot of miss hit yardage by swinging through very solid to a good finish, I am strong in the arms too. All I think about is swinging through to a good finish / belt buckle.
Larger chunkier heads, bounce, leading edges, sole width etc on turf interaction is a factor also from design to design in firm or soft conditions, many people don't consider whats below and what works best for their swing. e.g some steeper swings might do well with a Cavity like Bridgestone J40 CB / DPC. We get caught up with wide sole / thin sole SW in thick or thin local bunker conditions, yet perhaps don't think about the other 3-PW clubs turf interaction hitting the big ball. Consider a 'mild' leading edge grind/round to help, sometimes oem leading edges are all not the same.

Here is a awesome swing through the ball...with a blade iron (stop it at the top)...are you swinging through the ball with your cavities?...or feel you need to?...then you take your cavity hit swing and put it on a balde, and decide no one should be playing blades...Yes blades take some time...perhaps its your swing

 
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ProZoneGolf said:
For me...I think distance control has a lot to do with how your strike through the ball, If you hit at it I think your miss hits fly shorter, if you strike through it with all motion moving through the ball, body, arms, core etc the ball just gets in the way. I negate a lot of miss hit yardage by swinging through very solid to a good finish, I am strong in the arms too. All I think about is swinging through to a good finish / belt buckle
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This is the type of swing I'm working on. Swinging with my body and letting the club drag behind like a wrecking ball.

Very powerful and smooth with great results when I execute.

Ending in a balanced, upright, fully turned, facing past the target, hands high posture. Like gentle Ben Hogan.

The ball just gets in the way.

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Johan185 said:
So at first the XR Pro's were 20 yards longer. Now maybe 5 yards.
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How much did you extend the MP-5's? 15 yards is a lot to have changed.
 
cbaker2882 said:
How much did you extend the MP-5's? 15 yards is a lot to have changed.
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About an inch. But most of the gains are secondary to contact, swing improvements, and lag & proper release drills.

But mainly after the shafts length adjustment I was making better contact. Hitting the sweet spot consistently.

Moral of the story. Get fitted or you may never know your true potential.

They were not fitted correctly to my game. Now they are. Bingo 15 yards extra.

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Even though I play with an iron with a little more forgiveness, what I did was go to a garage sale and buy an old set(circa late 80s or so) of blades for like 15 bucks. I use those when I practice to get a better feedback and to improve my striking. But on the course I just see no reason to throw away the forgiveness that a CB would provide. Unless you have a God given ability, you can practice all you want and probably never be a perfect ball striker. Even if you're a damn good ball striker you will probably have 3-5 shots a round where you don't catch it flush so why end up in the bunker or the water with a blade, where as maybe 30-40 ft away with a more forgiving iron?
 
Consider some progressive cavity irons. They have a smaller profile and you get the cavity in the long irons, muscle back mid irons and bladed short irons. The titleist ones are pretty good.


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Not all blades are the same...some are very difficult to hit, some are a quite easy. Much research should be done in selection. Also shaft fit is key. Add any puring/spine/Flo/loft n lie adjustments...it just gets better. Eg Mizuno MP 33's were the gold standard in blades, a lot of players played them Tiger was one and grew his game playing on them. I played them for 2 years, many did.
Upon the Hogan 1999's I never looked back due to the fact Hogans had a bigger sweet spot and were more forgiving. I am a fan of blade on blade design. look at Adams MB 2's as well. Hogan Channel backs I also played for 3 years, this adds a bit of weight up the face/flange widening the hitting aera.
Danny Lee from NZ entered the PGA European Tour with Hogan Chanel backs. Danny is probably one of my fav blade ball strikers next to Rory, watch him hit say 5i approx 225y drop in stop like a wedge....amazing!
 
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MTC82 said:
Even though I play with an iron with a little more forgiveness, what I did was go to a garage sale and buy an old set(circa late 80s or so) of blades for like 15 bucks. I use those when I practice to get a better feedback and to improve my striking. But on the course I just see no reason to throw away the forgiveness that a CB would provide. Unless you have a God given ability, you can practice all you want and probably never be a perfect ball striker. Even if you're a damn good ball striker you will probably have 3-5 shots a round where you don't catch it flush so why end up in the bunker or the water with a blade, where as maybe 30-40 ft away with a more forgiving iron?
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I think you're beyond absolutely correct.

On the range it's pure pleasure. But as we know. All it would take is one bad swing to put our game into a funk. Without confidence in every part of our game, including our equipment, 18 holes can be a very lonely walk.

But Go* Dam** Mizuno. Why...... did you make they so shiny!

Must resist




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I just don't get the "the feedback" thing. If for some reason you're playing an iron so forgiving that you can feel impact location, which ones do that because I haven't found them; wouldn't ballflight and impact tape tell you everything you need to know?
 
blugold said:
I just don't get the "the feedback" thing. If for some reason you're playing an iron so forgiving that you can feel impact location, which ones do that because I haven't found them; wouldn't ballflight and impact tape tell you everything you need to know?
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Impact tape isn't as purdy. I joke. Of course you are right. But of course different strokes for different folks, too.
 
tequila4kapp said:
Impact tape isn't as purdy. I joke. Of course you are right. But of course different strokes for different folks, too.
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I told understand the allure of blades. Aesthetics are a draw. Buuuuuut, no part of that club will force a person to get better. I have never really understood the "focus on a good swing" thing. I dunno. Maybe it's my Internet golfer swing speed that makes that impossible. I dunno.
 
blugold said:
I told understand the allure of blades. Aesthetics are a draw. Buuuuuut, no part of that club will force a person to get better. I have never really understood the "focus on a good swing" thing. I dunno. Maybe it's my Internet golfer swing speed that makes that impossible. I dunno.
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I agree. But it is working for Johan and appears to work for some others. I'm looking inward - maybe I'm just not a good enough ball striker for that method to work. To each their own.
 
tequila4kapp said:
I agree. But it is working for Johan and appears to work for some others. I'm looking inward - maybe I'm just not a good enough ball striker for that method to work. To each their own.
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If it's working, no reason to not use it. But o do think there is some confirmation bias happening.
 
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