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Blades Vs Cavity Back

SuperStroke
tequila4kapp said:
It was with my i25 9i. Usually I can tell. I've been injured and not playing much, I may not be as in tune with things as usual. Also, the results of the swings were extremely acceptable. Not seeing the ball react poorly minimized the ability to understand the error. Of course, it also made me really appreciate the technology - these shots would have been extremely playable. At this point, I'll take all the help I can get.
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Ping makes excellent clubs. Irons etc.

But your experience is very important to this discussion about CB Vs MB. As you noted even when injured and not really in touch with your usual swing you were hitting your numbers on the range and I assume on the golf course as well. This in contrast to the fact that I have to practice three times a day with weekly professional instructions and a trackman/flightscope data analysis to get average results with a blade.

No knock on the blade just a reminder of Mizuno recommended 5 hcpers or less for this club, not 20 hcpers.

Do I love the blades yes. Do I really, really, really want to game them. Yes. Am I worthy. NO way Jose or Johan. Lol.

I don't want to be the guy with the Ferrari clubs and the Hacker's swing. Pun intended.



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I play CB irons and will never go back to GI. I do not like the offset they all have, the huge soles seem to make good contact harder for me. I guess I am just odd. I am hitting my irons as good as I ever have with MP-59s. I suggest buying an old blade or MB and see for yourself. Thrift stores are packed with old ones. Good luck.
 
Johan185 said:
I just guessing, but doesn't where it strikes the club face influence the ball trajectory and spin as much as swing path and club face angle. And of course club head speed and angle of attack.

Just curious on your take.

May take is to review every part of the contact conditions and adjust or improve my ball trajectory by making swing changes.



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Sure. The impact location will play a part. With a blade, the location that will most effectively impart ball speed is small. With a GI the location of the most efficient ball speed is bigger. Which makes controlling the swing path easier because you have less to worry about. If you're off by 2mm, your ball speed won't suffer. Essentially, with a blade, you're trying to control a dime sized spot travelling 85 mph. Wouldn't it be smarter to try and control a quarter sized spot going 85mph? What about a 50¢ piece sized spot at 85 mph?
 
blugold said:
Sure. The impact location will play a part. With a blade, the location that will most effectively impart ball speed is small. With a GI the location of the most efficient ball speed is bigger. Which makes controlling the swing path easier because you have less to worry about. If you're off by 2mm, your ball speed won't suffer. Essentially, with a blade, you're trying to control a dime sized spot travelling 85 mph. Wouldn't it be smarter to try and control a quarter sized spot going 85mph? What about a 50¢ piece sized spot at 85 mph?
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Super Kool information.

I might be wrong, but. After gaming the Mp-5's for a couple of weeks the sweet spot feels like the size of a half dollar as opposed to a dime like other blades I have tested. And of course the XR Pro's are about 40% larger, extending further out towards the heel and toe.

Maybe some of the Scratch players can chime in. With the modern technology and computer aided designs, are the OEM'S able to increase the sweet spot. Leading to blade like MB that could qualify as SGI clubs based on playability. But still having the workability and feel of a MB, MP-5?

The Apex CF16, and Apex Pro appear to be a good step in that direction.



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blugold said:
I'm curious as well, I want clubs that feel that soft on impact out on the extremes. I haven't had my Cf 16s long, but misses feel pretty darn obvious so far.
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Forged toe, or heal toe weighted irons, check out Cobra Forged King Tec irons
 
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blugold said:
I have never felt this sensation. Ever. Not saying it doesn't happen. Just that I know whether or not I was close to center, I also know which area contact was, just by feel. Plus, if the ball flight wasn't correct, what does it matter where I was on the face?
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I was actually thinking about this thread when I played on Friday. I had several iron shots that felt decent, maybe didn't fly quite as well as I expected, and I wasn't sure where on the face I missed and honestly wouldn't have thought I missed were it not for the less than ideal distance (dispersion was still very good). look down at the face and I see the contact point wasn't tap dead center. there were a couple times when I felt the miss, but thought it was the opposite of what it was (thought toe when it was heel or vice versa). probably has something to do with the flex face technology thingy.


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c.a.eleric said:
I was actually thinking about this thread when I played on Friday. I had several iron shots that felt decent, maybe didn't fly quite as well as I expected, and I wasn't sure where on the face I missed and honestly wouldn't have thought I missed were it not for the less than ideal distance (dispersion was still very good). look down at the face and I see the contact point wasn't tap dead center. there were a couple times when I felt the miss, but thought it was the opposite of what it was (thought toe when it was heel or vice versa). probably has something to do with the flex face technology thingy.


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Lewis Fishman. 1988 Golf Digest has a very interesting article regarding CB Cast Clubs Vs MB Forged Classic Clubs.

Distance advantage 3 yards CB. Not something that would sway a golfer one way or the other.

Dispersion MB. But again not significant. Less than one Standard Deviation.

This was with a true temper swing machine. Contact sweet spot, toe, heel, high, low, high toe, and low heel. Which was described as the most common locations weekend hackers strike the golf ball. Same swing speed, swing path, etc. Very interesting.

His conclusions. What club you pick is entirely a personal matter up to your tastes and game, swing preference.

Now for those that say, wait a minute. But that was with clubs built in the 1980's. In 2016 the technology has improved by leaps and bounds.

I responded true. But hasn't it improved by leaps and bounds in both Cavity Back and Muscle Back Blades. And therefore won't the results be the same today as is was then.

I know I certainly had a hard time hitting a 7 or 6 iron Cavity Back in the 80' . And can still feel the stinger from a Blade I swung Back then as well.

Today a fifty plus I can hit a 7 iron with authority to a green in the distance, and feel nothing but Butter from my Mp5 Blades when swung with quality and intention.

So maybe it's just a what's between my ears.

Oh wait a minute. I just realized everyone has been telling the same thing since the first to the last reply.

Good night. Farewell. And happy trails.

See you on the links.

Namaste

Johan out

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It is 100% personal. And its awesome that THPers have been saying that the entire time.
However I would say that the innovations in irons has not been anywhere near as high in the muscle back category to that of the cavity back. Then add that half of the categories in irons now didnt exist, and its not hard to see why things have been passed by.
 
ProZoneGolf said:
Forged toe, or heal toe weighted irons, check out Cobra Forged King Tec irons
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I can testify to this--I have the 2013 Apexes and can feel some serious twist on badly toed shots. The new Cobras, not nearly so much. They're more like my D200s where you can feel that you hit on the toe, but it's not like the club wants to crank out of your hand.

blugold said:
Whew. I have those. good to know that's as good as it gets.
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You sure about that? I thought the CF16 was like the 2013 Apex, tungsten weights in the sole of the low irons to help elevate the ball, not plugs in the heel and toe like the Cobras.
 
Dave Alvarado said:
You sure about that? I thought the CF16 was like the 2013 Apex, tungsten weights in the sole of the low irons to help elevate the ball, not plugs in the heel and toe like the Cobras.
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Oh, I just read toe weighted. It was never specified how the weight was placed.
 
JB said:
It is 100% personal. And its awesome that THPers have been saying that the entire time.
However I would say that the innovations in irons has not been anywhere near as high in the muscle back category to that of the cavity back. Then add that half of the categories in irons now didnt exist, and its not hard to see why things have been passed by.
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Perhaps you need to check these out Yonex Blades gone Hi-Tec, they stole the PGA Show. Forged by Endo Japan :golf3:

http://www.yonexusa.com/sports/golf...s-spec/mens-clubs-1/irons/ti-hybrid-mb-irons/

Hogan 1999 Irons have this technology: stripe grooves inside the neck reduces weight by 3g, lowering the centre of gravity for a higher launch trajectory
 
Worlds first 'encased' titanium core inside the muscle for a blade...its revolutionary, as it will start a new design revolution from other manufacturers to do the same or better

I think its superior to Mizuno's pressed Ti insert, plus the reduced hosel weight...nice
 
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Is that like how Boron or Resin was supposed to be revolutionary in club construction?
 
ProZoneGolf said:
Worlds first 'encased' titanium core inside the muscle for a blade...its revolutionary, as it will start a new design revolution from other manufacturers to do the same or better

I think its superior to Mizuno's pressed Ti insert, plus the reduced hosel weight...nice
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Debateable. Extremely debateable.

Whether you want to admit it or not, there is only so much that can be done with blades by design. Even with the construction of Yonex above, they will still play like blades and be more demanding than cavity and perimeter weighted designs. A more playable blade? Possibly. Still a blade though.
 
Mward said:
Is that like how Boron or Resin was supposed to be revolutionary in club construction?
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Dude its RZN. Totally different stuff :alien:
 
Mward said:
Is that like how Boron or Resin was supposed to be revolutionary in club construction?
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Moreover other companies have created muscle backs with a filled cavity in order to shift weight as much as they can. Nickents ARC blades were years ahead in that regard.

As Ive said, will it make a blade more playable? Sure. But it'd still be apples and oranges when comparing to a cb or perimeter weighted design.
 
Jman said:
Moreover other companies have created muscle backs with a filled cavity in order to shift weight as much as they can. Nickents ARC blades were years ahead in that regard.

As Ive said, will it make a blade more playable? Sure. But it'd still be apples and oranges when comparing to a cb or perimeter weighted design.
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Absolutely. I don't care what it's made of, you better hit the center of that iron or you're going to lose some yardage. There's only so much chassis to work with.
 
Yonex Ti-Hybrid MB Blade iron...Recorded one of the highest ball speeds off the face from 15 of the world best 2015 blades / shootout...impressive

Here is the Tech
Yonex 2014 Titanium Hybrid MB Forged iron was created to provide the ultimate combination of workability and control with a touch of forgiveness and ease of use. This new model is truely a "Hybrid" design and is also referred to as the "TC Forged" (Titanium Core Forged) for its new and unique head design. The new design is made to appeal to those wanting a traditional MB appearance with easier launch. The forged head with titaniumn core will also introduce a solid new feel like none other.
Yonex 2014 Titanium Hybrid MB Forged Features & Technology

- Classic muscule back appearance with thin top line and very minimal offset.- Newly designed titanium filled core (18grams of titanium) at the bottom of the club for lower CG.- New "Gravity Groove Control" hosel design that makes the hosel 3 grams lighter than the previous models.- S25C Forged head for consistent and soft feel for that "sticking to the face" sensation.
Titanium Core and Gravity Groove Control

The Neo Blade design with a larger hump and titanium filled core allows for 18 grams of less dense titanium material to fill the center. By putting titanium between a forged head, it has allowed the CG to be brought down and moved farther back; for easier launch. The new Gravity Groove Control hosel is a new spiral design within the hosel area that brings the weight of the hosel area down by 3 grams. These two updates in this head allows for a lower CG than any other Yonex MB previously produced. This means the playability of a blade matched with an easier launch that is closer to a cavity back.

----------------------------------

Here are the impressive cavities...from Yonex 2015 too. Yonex are doing some Hi Tec stuff!

 
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ProZoneGolf said:
Perhaps you need to check these out Yonex Blades gone Hi-Tec, they stole the PGA Show. Forged by Endo Japan :golf3:

http://www.yonexusa.com/sports/golf...s-spec/mens-clubs-1/irons/ti-hybrid-mb-irons/

Hogan 1999 Irons have this technology: stripe grooves inside the neck reduces weight by 3g, lowering the centre of gravity for a higher launch trajectory
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I guess you proved my point. If the technology was available in 1999, and now you are calling it revolutionary, it shows how little has changed in the category in 15+ years.

There are companies that have done things to the category. Callaway shifted a massive amount of weight around. Cobra moved weight lower and further and a number of others. But to compare the changes in muscle back technology to that of other irons is downright crazy.

We work with Yonex and speak to them on a weekly basis. We have given more Yonex equipment away to forum members than any other website on the internet.
 
Highest ball speed against other MB's when struck by scratch players...so this tells us zero about the advancement of blade design as it relates to forgiveness because they're hitting the ball in the middle of the face.
 
You said there was not much improvement in blades...not true...Yonex are doing great stuff!, how can you say blade design has hit the wall...

Cobra and Nike are now developing tungsten weighted blades moving CG. Mizuno MP 5 chanel back is more playable too.

With new designs and weight savings we will see more impressive blade designs, hybrid blades etc

Why do cavity players diminish blades?...like they are going obsolete!, wa$ it a hot affair that went bad?
 
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I don't recall saying that at all.
 
The advancements in blade irons is miniscule compared to the advancements in cavity back irons.
 
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