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Real Deal Tour Shafts Vs OEM Made For...Can you tell the difference...How?

Nippon Shafts
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I couldn't care less if it's real deal, made for, super-rare-limited-edition made out of unicorn tail or any other crazy name someone wants to use to charge more. If it works, it works.

Should Walmart get in trouble because the Samsung you buy from them is different than the Samsung at Best Buy? Yet, they both say Samsung with the same model number a lot of the times.

The only part I agree with is buying the heads separate for less than the full club. Not because I care what shaft comes with it but because I already have the shaft I want and I want to tinker.
 
Isn't this the point of getting fit and having fitting carts. Also by name isn't the 661 and 665 you mentioned different shafts. Couldn't the shaft companies view an club manufacturer using a "made for" rouge stamped on the shaft as a marketing tool to sell the aftermarket shaft.
 
Scrap Iron said:
Isn't this the point of getting fit and having fitting carts. Also by name isn't the 661 and 665 you mentioned different shafts. Couldn't the shaft companies view an club manufacturer using a "made for" rouge stamped on the shaft as a marketing tool to sell the aftermarket shaft.
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Yes. The 661 and 665 are different profile shafts and both are "real deal".
 
Take the rogue, some made in different factories...yet sold as exactly the same...check the butt sticker under the grip, are they the same?

As for the 665 I just had one marked as x flex yet it was stiff to S+, and a type 1 shaft, were many real deal shafts are type two shafts

Many questioned the Adams XTD Ti driver shafts...the red tie, as the flex was a full flex stiffer than stated...was this real deal?...or Titleist made for debate, or TEE 757's real?

I think we should demand clearer differentiation between made for watered down versions Vs Real Deal. This has to come for leaders/reviewers in the industry, IMO...who 'I believe' have been taking a blind eye and siding with OEM's regarding this topic. How can you take a honest review from some one who has been paid of by OEM's with cash or freebies? Do many reviewers 'leach up' to OEM's just to get free stuff? - YES! - if so can you take the review seriously?

If you brought a knock off watch, bag etc would you be upset?, after all it looks the same...right???
 
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rtparty said:
I couldn't care less if it's real deal, made for, super-rare-limited-edition made out of unicorn tail or any other crazy name someone wants to use to charge more. If it works, it works.

Should Walmart get in trouble because the Samsung you buy from them is different than the Samsung at Best Buy? Yet, they both say Samsung with the same model number a lot of the times.

The only part I agree with is buying the heads separate for less than the full club. Not because I care what shaft comes with it but because I already have the shaft I want and I want to tinker.
Click to expand...
Scrap Iron said:
Isn't this the point of getting fit and having fitting carts. Also by name isn't the 661 and 665 you mentioned different shafts. Couldn't the shaft companies view an club manufacturer using a "made for" rouge stamped on the shaft as a marketing tool to sell the aftermarket shaft.
Click to expand...

Have you never shopped for shafts you liked on eBay? Pulls for less money? While I am not overly concerned with the 'made for' concept, I do think there's some merit to having a design be different than the original version. Especially for the casual golfer that might think it's a good idea to tinker via the bay.

I don't think this thread is about getting fit, for what it's worth. Especially with how few of us get fit and buy said 300 dollar upgrade on the spot.
 
I've seen on a few shafts, the .1 after the shaft number.

I have a Matrix shaft like this. Could I tell a difference between it and a Real Deal shaft? No.

I might be disappointed with the Real Deal. It might be stiffer, different torque, etc.

I do know I hit this one decent.

If I were to go to a fitting to try and find minor differences between shafts, the fitter would tell me to take some lessons first.

There are some guys on here that you could spray paint all of the shafts black, and they could tell them apart.

It really depends on the player.

Jack
 
Canadan said:
Have you never shopped for shafts you liked on eBay? Pulls for less money? While I am not overly concerned with the 'made for' concept, I do think there's some merit to having a design be different than the original version. Especially for the casual golfer that might think it's a good idea to tinker via the bay.

I don't think this thread is about getting fit, for what it's worth. Especially with how few of us get fit and buy said 300 dollar upgrade on the spot.
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I have bought a pull from eBay and it played nothing the like one that came in my club and not in a good way either.

The Black Tie in my RFX was way different than the Black Tie I got off the bay even though they were the "same".

I have no issue with people playing what they want. If real deal, made for or anything else crosses people's minds and that affects their playing, they should buy what works best.

But for me, I don't worry about it really. I don't build my own clubs. I don't have my own tools of any kind and I don't have the money to tinker with shafts. My Project X HC LZ is amazing in my driver. I'd love to get one in my 3Deep and mess around but I'm not paying the garbage shops around here to build my club. They usually screw something up every time
 
Canadan said:
Have you never shopped for shafts you liked on eBay? Pulls for less money? While I am not overly concerned with the 'made for' concept, I do think there's some merit to having a design be different than the original version. Especially for the casual golfer that might think it's a good idea to tinker via the bay.

I don't think this thread is about getting fit, for what it's worth. Especially with how few of us get fit and buy said 300 dollar upgrade on the spot.
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Perhaps golfers/readers can post their knowledge on the differences to watch out for: OEM made for/waterered down Vs Real Deal, Vs fake. Many of us do buy pulls from e-bay
 
ProZoneGolf said:
Perhaps golfers/readers can post their knowledge on the differences to watch out for: OEM made for/waterered down Vs Real Deal, Vs fake. Many of us do buy pulls from e-bay
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A shaft made for an OEM does not always mean watered down.
 
The Rogue argument is irrelevant.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
 
ProZoneGolf said:
Perhaps golfers/readers can post their knowledge on the differences to watch out for: OEM made for/waterered down Vs Real Deal, Vs fake. Many of us do buy pulls from e-bay
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While I appreciate the idea of what you are trying to portray, I don't subscribe to the 'watered' down concept.

Made for? Sure, I'll buy that. Watered down? I really don't even begin to get that.
 
Galen Marek said:
This is a topic that has long interested me not because I consider myself too good for "made for shafts" but because the manufacturers insist on calling these stock offerings the real deal when it's pretty much a given they are not the aftermarket shaft. I'm surprised some type of legal action hasn't been pursued as in the case of Tiger Wood's ball back in the day. This is a pretty hot topic in tennis as well as it's well known to the internet crowd that most pro players don't play the racquets they endorse. I believe there is a lawsuit against Wilson because of the belief his signature model isn't the same as retail.

As for my own experience with "made for" vs. aftermarket I had a Callaway Big Bertha driver with the stock Fubuki ZT in an extra stiff which felt great. I got into a conversation with my local clubfitter/builder who is well known in the Los Angeles golf community and he told me that the stock Fubuki ZT was made in a China plant to less stringent tolerances than the aftermarket which he said was made in the Japan factory to much tighter tolerances. He showed me the cosmetic differences under the grip and the wall difference as well. The stock shaft was also missing the Mitsubishi hologram decal. Curious and having some extra spending money I bought the aftermarket Fubuki and had it installed and sure enough the shaft was much tighter in terms of torque and it definitely felt more boardy. It was more stout for sure and my numbers were better. It lowered my spin and tightened up my dispersion. Only problem is I enjoyed the feel of the stock shaft more and the differences in numbers weren't that much better.

That said, now that I have my "Made for Paul" Project X shaft I don't have to concern myself with such nonsense! Thanks Don! ;-)

PS - I hope nobody takes this as "made for" bashing. My 913h has a made for as well as my XR hybrid and both have my full confidence.
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I thought the Z and ZT were still the "real" shaft, and similar to the alpha or K (I forget which one it has a similar profile to, as I'm not all that up on the Fubuki line), though that shaft had less torque and was made in the Japan factory. Was the aftermarket shaft you ordered the ZT, or one of those? Either way, interesting on my end.
 
mpeterson said:
I thought the Z and ZT were still the "real" shaft, and similar to the alpha or K (I forget which one it has a similar profile to, as I'm not all that up on the Fubuki line), though that shaft had less torque and was made in the Japan factory. Was the aftermarket shaft you ordered the ZT, or one of those? Either way, interesting on my end.
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His explanation was that the Z and ZT that came with the Callaway clubs were of the same design as the aftermarket versions but made at Mitsubishi's China factory where the tolerances weren't as stringent. The aftermarket ZT he installed had some slight cosmetic differences, what appeared to be differences in the exposed graphite in the butt end and a hologram of authenticity. His explanation was that the aftermarket Z and ZT shafts were from the Japan factory and were of better quality and tighter tolerances. I read a review of the OEM versions and while they didn't quite have the tolerances of the Japan shafts, they were still considered excellent quality shafts that performed exceptionally well.
 
I've made this point before on the forum and this seems like a decent thread to say it again.
I know that "made for" shafts are NO WORSE for the average golfer, in some cases they can be BETTER.

However, I think it's stupid and misleading to have 2 products with the same paint job and same name to be built differently, to different tolerances, and in the end to perform differently. Not worse or better, but differently.
I've always appreciated how Tour Edge Exotics took a popular shaft for their clubs, altered it for what they wanted, and gave it a new and different paint job to differentiate it.
The old Kai'Li, S+, D-, and 'Ahina shafts in the Titleist 910 are part of the problem, but they did say "Made for Titleist" on them in small letters. Still, why not just call it something else.
Callaway's Tour Blue and Fubuki ZT shafts look identical to a shaft with the same paint and name, but are built different and perform different. Why not call it the Tour Grey or ZS?

I wish I knew why they do this. Perhaps it's to save costs on an assembly line. Perhaps the shafts are too close to the 'original' specs to name them something different. Perhaps it's to purposefully provide the illusion of a higher quality shaft than is being offered. Who knows.


Again, this issue is all kind of a moot point because as long as you try before you buy and you are happy with what you bought there isn't really an issue here. The name on the shaft doesn't equal fairways and yards regardless of what it is.
 
ProZoneGolf said:
Take the rogue, some made in different factories...yet sold as exactly the same...check the butt sticker under the grip, are they the same?

As for the 665 I just had one marked as x flex yet it was stiff to S+, and a type 1 shaft, were many real deal shafts are type two shafts

Many questioned the Adams XTD Ti driver shafts...the red tie, as the flex was a full flex stiffer than stated...was this real deal?...or Titleist made for debate, or TEE 757's real?

I think we should demand clearer differentiation between made for watered down versions Vs Real Deal. This has to come for leaders/reviewers in the industry, IMO...who 'I believe' have been taking a blind eye and siding with OEM's regarding this topic. How can you take a honest review from some one who has been paid of by OEM's with cash or freebies? Do many reviewers 'leach up' to OEM's just to get free stuff? - YES! - if so can you take the review seriously?

If you brought a knock off watch, bag etc would you be upset?, after all it looks the same...right???
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Doesn't Matrix get to determine the flex of the shaft? There us no standard for flex.
 
blugold said:
Doesn't Matrix get to determine the flex of the shaft? There us no standard for flex.
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Correct, there is no standard flex scale. Never has been, never will be quite honestly.
 
Jman said:
Correct, there is no standard flex scale. Never has been, never will be quite honestly.
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Regardless of the arbitrary CPM measurement.
 
Jman said:
Correct, there is no standard flex scale. Never has been, never will be quite honestly.
Click to expand...

Closest thing was probably Miyazaki's International Flex code - the Cleveland catalog always had ratings of other manufacturer's shafts, which was useful. But that's still an arbitrary scale - without their methodology you can't find it for a shaft they haven't looked at.
 
I just don't get this argument. Nobody is hiding anything. Nobody in my opinion is trying to pull one over on a consumer. And they are certainly not "knock offs in the sense that other examples were provided such as watches.
 
JB said:
A shaft made for an OEM does not always mean watered down.
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Many could debate this...so why do they make them look identical to shafts that are worth $300 - $1000 real deal shafts ? I suspect your drinking the Kool Aide...
 
ProZoneGolf said:
Many could debate this...so why do they make them look identical to shafts that are worth $300 - $1000 real deal shafts ? I suspect your drinking the Kool Aide...
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You're****
 
ProZoneGolf said:
Many could debate this...so why do they make them look identical to shafts that are worth $300 - $1000 real deal shafts ? I suspect your drinking the Kool Aide...
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It's "Kool-Aid".
 
ProZoneGolf said:
Many could debate this...so why do they make them look identical to shafts that are worth $300 - $1000 real deal shafts ? I suspect your drinking the Kool Aide...
Click to expand...

Thats rich coming from the guy who insists on pointing out his clubs were forged by Endo. Kool Aid indeed.
 
 
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