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Define...

Two strokes using two different clubs with the second club getting the ball into the hole.
 
BlueHen2006 said:
Two strokes using two different clubs with the second club getting the ball into the hole.
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Birdie on a par 3? Eagle on a par 4? The ever elusive albatross on a par 5?
 
OGputtnfool said:
Birdie on a par 3? Eagle on a par 4? The ever elusive albatross on a par 5?
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What if, on my 3rd shot on a par 4, I'm "greenside", I pitch up on the green with a SW and it stops 1" away, then I go tap it in with the SW. Is that an U&D?
 
OGputtnfool said:
Birdie on a par 3? Eagle on a par 4? The ever elusive albatross on a par 5?
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I'd most likely use birdie, eagle, or albatross in those three situation because they sound cooler to me. U&D I would probably reserve for par or worse. Maybe if I was short of making it on a par 5 in two I'd use U&D for my chip and one putt birdie, but still like saying birdie. :alien2:
 
BlueHen2006 said:
I'd most likely use birdie, eagle, or albatross in those three situation because they sound cooler to me. U&D I would probably reserve for par or worse. Maybe if I was short of making it on a par 5 in two I'd use U&D for my chip and one putt birdie, but still like saying birdie. :alien2:
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Are you saying when you sit down and analyze a scorecard (ok, I'm assuming here that everyone analyzes their scorecard after the round like I do) you wouldn't count a hole as U&D if you made birdie or better on it even if you made the virtually identical shots on a different hole to make bogey and would count it on the bogey hole?
 
For me, it's a missed GIR and making par or better. So, if I hit 6 GIR, then I have 12 chances for U&D that round. I'm not getting U&D for birdie unless I hole out from off the green. Doesn't matter if I'm 1/2" off or 100 yards or more. If I missed the GIR and make par or better, it's a successful U&D.
 
From off the green to in the hole in 2 shots would be my definition.
 
OGputtnfool said:
Are you saying when you sit down and analyze a scorecard (ok, I'm assuming here that everyone analyzes their scorecard after the round like I do) you wouldn't count a hole as U&D if you made birdie or better on it even if you made the virtually identical shots on a different hole to make bogey and would count it on the bogey hole?
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If I went over my scorecard I'd count them all the same. I use U&D mainly in convo with my dad when I tell him how I played.
 
OGputtnfool said:
Define close.

Is it not possible to get up and down for birdie on a par 4 or par on a par 5?
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Yeah those work to. I define close as <30 yards, pretty sure that is the measure for shotlink and strokes gained around the green as well.
 
If there's an irrefutable black and white definition I've never seen it so this is what it has always meant to ME. Missed GIR followed by a short shot followed by another shot (almost always a putt but not mandatory) that goes in for par. I only use the term to describe how I made pars, not applicable for other scores. They have their own terms.
 
ntanygd760 said:
Yeah those work to. I define close as <30 yards, pretty sure that is the measure for shotlink and strokes gained around the green as well.
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Is that from the center of the green, closest point, or the pin position for the day?
 
Daddio said:
If there's an irrefutable black and white definition I've never seen it...
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There isn't. That's why this is so fun. Some of these answers seem so vague and sometimes ridiculous to me, but I'm sure my strict definition seems ridiculous to others.
 
Pitch shot off the green on the first attempt after missing the green on approach (hence the ball gets up in the air) from a short distance (if you’re making me list a distance - somewhere sub 30 yards) and then making the putt. You can get up and down from greenside bunkers as well, but those would fall under sand saves...which I guess is a sub class of up and downs. A chip from the fringe and putt is also not an up and down to me, as to me there was no “up” in that case. This can also be for any score. Which then leads to can an up and down happen from your hypothetical question of the shot from 170 - and to me, no. That’s just general scrambling if you’d hit the green from that far out.
 
Up: Onto the green.
Down: into the hole.

It makes no difference where you play the up from or what the score. I've heard things along the line of "he'll need to get up and down here to force a playoff" It can even be off the tee. It just means two strokes to finish the hole.
 
for me ....it means a chip or pitch on and then putt in the hole. It can be for par , or bird or triple bogey or quad. The idea imo is that I chipped/pitched on from close and holed the putt afterwards.
 
OGputtnfool said:
So, basically, any time you have 1 putt or less no matter the score on the hole?
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Smallville said:
Sure, why not? If thats what someone wants to do.
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absolutely, why not? It all depends the reason for keeping the stat or noting what you just did.
I mean suppose Im greenside sitting 4 because of some prior screw up. And now I get up and down for a double. I still got up and down. It still says to me "nice job there" with that part of the hole.

If you were in a competition and were (as I said in my example) hypothetically sitting 4 greenside and on 18th hole. And the person beating you shot an 82 and your sitting 4 greenside after blowing up the hole till that point yet still with an 80 on the round. You would have to get up and down to tie. Wouldn't you? You hole out the chip you win, you get on and two putt you lose. But you get up and down you tie, right? In that sense you just got up and down to force a tie of 82. Id call that getting up and down. You gave the game to him by blowing up on the hole prior to that point. But then from greenside you came through and got up/down to force the tie.
 
To follow up here, UpDown % is a stat my GHIN service tracks. When I enter 'advanced hole by hole scores' (which I do 95% of the time) it automatically puts a green check in the up/down box if successful or a red x if not. I get those automatic checks whenever I've missed the GIR but then made a par or better. Therefore it's also counting my rare chip in birdies (or chip in pars) as successful Up & Down. There is a separate box above that where I can manually enter green checks or red x for sand saves, so it will track that stat for me too.
 
According to statistics I'm aware of, its the product of a missed GIR followed by a 1 putt for par., regardless of distance. Personally, I take a more realistic approach and consider it anytime I'm around the green, arbitrarily inside 40 yards, and get in the hole within 2 strokes from there regardless of par.
 
My question is, how do you quantify progress if the stats you keep are arbitrary and ambiguous? That's not pointed at anyone in particular, just kinda throwing it out there.

If you start tracking U&D as "within X yards of the green and holed out in two strokes from there no matter of final score" and you're averaging 35% success when you start, then 3 months later, you've improved and you're averaging 65% over the last month so you decided to change your criteria and start tracking "within X-10 yards of the green, down in two, but only for double bogey or better", then your average goes back down to 45%. You'd feel like you were never getting any better, but actually you'd be improving.

If we start with a strict interpretation from the get go, we start very low probably 5-10% average maybe, but as we slowly improve, we never have to take that step back because we are tracking it against the strict interpretation already.

It's like the people who tell you they shot a 90 (or any other "good" score), but since you played with them you know it's more like a 110 since they lost 4 balls OB, kicked the ball out from behind a tree twice, picked up 3" from the hole and didn't count the "gimme" a couple of times, etc. When that person starts playing by the RoG, they're gonna feel like they got worse overnight, but really, they were just cheating themselves up until that point. That's another discussion though...
 
A situation I know all too well:

"After that shot OB and my reload, I now have to get up and down from 180 out to make bogey."
 
OGputtnfool said:
What about getting up and down for eagle?
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If you can drive a par 5 green, sure! Otherwise it'd have to be a net eagle playing HC golf. I've never been within "up and down" range of a par 5 in 1 shot.

I'd consider getting up and down to be any shot from just off the green to 20 yards off the green or so and then making the putt.
 
SmiterOfPv1x said:
If you can drive a par 5 green, sure! Otherwise it'd have to be a net eagle playing HC golf. I've never been within "up and down" range of a par 5 in 1 shot.

I'd consider getting up and down to be any shot from just off the green to 20 yards off the green or so and then making the putt.
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That's the point. There's no set distance for U&D. Maybe you got up and down from 210.

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rollin said:
absolutely, why not? It all depends the reason for keeping the stat or noting what you just did.
I mean suppose Im greenside sitting 4 because of some prior screw up. And now I get up and down for a double. I still got up and down. It still says to me "nice job there" with that part of the hole.
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What if someone pulled a Sergio and put 4-5 balls in the water in a row, then lands the next on the green and one putts?

What about and island green par 3. Platter putts two or more balls in the water, then finally lands on the green and one putts?

Are those U&D?

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Up and down to me is getting from wherever you are lying to in the hole in 2 shots. I think people tend to refer to it around the green just because it's more realistically likely to happen from there than from way out.

I personally don't have a scoring criteria on it either, I mean you can get up & down for a treble bogey just as easily as up & down to save par.
 
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