Club Length Variations

Do you grip the club in the exact same spot every time? No, adjust it depending on the shot distance and what I'm trying to accomplish.
Do you stand the exact same distance from the ball every time? No, adjusts depending on shot type/ground slope, etc.
Is the club grounded or hovered in the same location each time? Grounded in same location, yes. Don't hover.
Do your golf shoes features all of the same spikes? No, I wear a variety of shoe types with very different spike types/lengths, etc.
 
I would bet good money that you are not in the exact spot to the quarter inch each time you set up to the ball. Its virtually impossible because it involves hands, feet and everything else about the body being identical every time one tees it up. The body does not work like that.
You're right, golfers must be all over the place then, it's amazing that anybody manages to make good contact ever.

As to the second part, I don't recall saying anything of the sort.

In fact the sentence immediately following the one you bolded said this exact thing!
Oh good, so you did see where you said exactly that.

If you're saying "trimming an inch, or half inch, etc is more of a mental dynamic than physical", how is that not saying that playing a driver an inch longer or shorter is in your head rather than something with a physical impact? I don't think any reputable fitter would agree with that statement at all. In fact it's pretty clear whoever you were talking to wouldn't agree, since "he made sure (you) mention that he is not downplaying the idea that length and fitting is important".

I know you and others are sold on the idea that everybody should be playing a 46" shaft because somebody told you that, but that simply isn't backed up by data that I've seen anywhere, here or anywhere else. It's common knowledge everywhere that long shafts *can* give you longer drives, but at the expense of other things like solid contact. If everybody was physically capable of hitting a longer driver, they wouldn't have capped at 46" and even started moving backwards.

Heck, just look at Cobra. The same company that brought us the 48" Long Tom when everybody was chasing stupidly long driver shaft lengths has two drivers at 45" and one at 45.25". Why cut off the extra inch from "standard" if it's just "more of a mental dynamic than a physical"? Seems like a terrible move in the market to have a driver that hits shorter than it could...unless driver length really matters for the average golfer, and a more controllable 45" driver actually lets average golfers hit farther because they're making better contact.
 
You're right, golfers must be all over the place then, it's amazing that anybody manages to make good contact ever.


Oh good, so you did see where you said exactly that.

If you're saying "trimming an inch, or half inch, etc is more of a mental dynamic than physical", how is that not saying that playing a driver an inch longer or shorter is in your head rather than something with a physical impact? I don't think any reputable fitter would agree with that statement at all. In fact it's pretty clear whoever you were talking to wouldn't agree, since "he made sure (you) mention that he is not downplaying the idea that length and fitting is important".

I know you and others are sold on the idea that everybody should be playing a 46" shaft because somebody told you that, but that simply isn't backed up by data that I've seen anywhere, here or anywhere else. It's common knowledge everywhere that long shafts *can* give you longer drives, but at the expense of other things like solid contact. If everybody was physically capable of hitting a longer driver, they wouldn't have capped at 46" and even started moving backwards.

Heck, just look at Cobra. The same company that brought us the 48" Long Tom when everybody was chasing stupidly long driver shaft lengths has two drivers at 45" and one at 45.25". Why cut off the extra inch from "standard" if it's just "more of a mental dynamic than a physical"? Seems like a terrible move in the market to have a driver that hits shorter than it could...unless driver length really matters for the average golfer, and a more controllable 45" driver actually lets average golfers hit farther because they're making better contact.

Couple of things.
1st - Nobody said golfers would be all over the place. Not everything has to be an extreme.

2nd - Nobody said all golfers should be playing the same length, let alone it being 46" long.

And lastly, to the original bolded you were quoting.
First it says "HE", not me which was someone else offering a take that I said I tended to agree with.
Then the next bold you jumped at it says "COULD" not "will" make the difference.

Disagree with it if you choose, or dont, it does not matter to me. It was a fun subject to discuss with a famous club maker that has his own point of view and it was brought to the forum to share.
 
The funny part of the above is that I dont play either of the two drivers in my bag at 46". hahaha.
 
So you are borderline exact mike?
How do you know you are standing almost the exact same distance away from the ball each time? I mean we are talking 1/4 of inches here.

Sorry just saw this..

I'm not sure if it's exact, but with shorter clubs I'm closer to the ball. During my lessons and something Freddie noticed was I was standing too far at address. So I concentrate to have the club naturally rest under my shoulders and I'm not "reaching" at address. Is it perfect every time? No, but I try to consciously make sure I'm not too far away. Hope it makes sense
 
I probably don't do anything exactly(down to 1/4") the same every time.

I remember TO saying they try to get people into the most comfortable setup, club configuration-wise, b/c his experience was that the more comfortable people are with a club, the faster they typically swing it. I was asking him about using heavier shafts in a driver b/c I feel like lighter isn't necessarily faster for me.

I'd tend to agree that a 1/2" here or there probably makes more of a difference on the mental side, but it still makes a difference.
 
Interesting conversation with a club builder today about shaft length and the variations that come from amateurs. Pertaining strictly to the driver, it brought up some interesting questions and how length is often overused as a crutch of evil when its not really being measured the same way each time.

Do you grip the club in the exact same spot every time?
Do you stand the exact same distance from the ball every time?
Is the club grounded or hovered in the same location each time?
Do your golf shoes features all of the same spikes?

In his views (although I tend to share them), he brought up the fact that trimming an inch, or a half inch, etc is more of a mental dynamic than physical since the above will change from swing to swing. Now with that said, he made sure I mention that he is not downplaying the idea that length and fitting is important, as is how much of a role the mind plays.

The view was that each of the above could count for a 1/4 inch difference from swing to swing or round to round. Very interesting take and one that makes a lot of sense to me.

I agree with the first three but I have difficulty believing that having different spikes is going to account for that much difference in effective length, unless he's talking about playing in golf spikes one day and street shoes the next.
 
I know you and others are sold on the idea that everybody should be playing a 46" shaft because somebody told you that, but that simply isn't backed up by data that I've seen anywhere, here or anywhere else. It's common knowledge everywhere that long shafts *can* give you longer drives, but at the expense of other things like solid contact. If everybody was physically capable of hitting a longer driver, they wouldn't have capped at 46" and even started moving backwards.

I would think driver length is person to person dependent. Some people find the blend of distance and accuracy that works for them sub 46, and some find it over 46. My consistency at 44 or 46 is about the same. A bad swing is going to produce a bad result, regardless of length. The distance at 46 though is better than the distance at 44, so I think I'll take that and just take my chances if I make a poor swing.

Also, you've gotten very argumentative the past few months and it's an eyesore.
 
I agree with the first three but I have difficulty believing that having different spikes is going to account for that much difference in effective length, unless he's talking about playing in golf spikes one day and street shoes the next.

There is a THP Radio show on the home page (im mobile so cant get you a link) from a few years ago where John Hoeflich was fitting either Retief Goosen or Ernie Els and they were really struggling with shots. Turns out the shoe change they made earlier in the day (its on the radio show) was causing differences. Just over a 1/4 inch difference away from the ball.
 
There is a THP Radio show on the home page (im mobile so cant get you a link) from a few years ago where John Hoeflich was fitting either Retief Goosen or Ernie Els and they were really struggling with shots. Turns out the shoe change they made earlier in the day (its on the radio show) was causing differences. Just over a 1/4 inch difference away from the ball.

Hopefully this is the right one:

http://www.thehackersparadise.com/?powerpress_pinw=13612-podcast
 
There is a THP Radio show on the home page (im mobile so cant get you a link) from a few years ago where John Hoeflich was fitting either Retief Goosen or Ernie Els and they were really struggling with shots. Turns out the shoe change they made earlier in the day (its on the radio show) was causing differences. Just over a 1/4 inch difference away from the ball.

I can honestly say this... when I made the switch from spikes to the Trues I used to wear, I started hitting a lot of heavy shots out of nowhere. Took an aha moment with my son ( he appeared as tall as me, and I know I have him by a bit! ) to realize it was the shoes. When I changed from the trues to another spikeless shoe with more support, the change was more subtle, but it did take a bit time to adapt.
 
There is a THP Radio show on the home page (im mobile so cant get you a link) from a few years ago where John Hoeflich was fitting either Retief Goosen or Ernie Els and they were really struggling with shots. Turns out the shoe change they made earlier in the day (its on the radio show) was causing differences. Just over a 1/4 inch difference away from the ball.

I read number 4 differently than this example :beat-up:
 
I don't get it... It's commonly known that the shorter the club the easier it is to hit the sweet spot, and the average driver length on tour is about 44" as opposed to the 45-46" drivers sold to regular people... I cut my drivers down to 44" and greatly improved my consistency. As for grip, I get a wear spot where my left thumb holds the club (I'm right handed) so yes I think I grip it the same most of the time. And I wear the same shoes all season long. I call "hooey" on this one. 45-46" is too long for the average joe, and if you're not hitting the sweet spot you're losing more distance than you'll gain from the extra inch or two of length. Simple guide: If you're not hitting the sweet spot, and the spot you are hitting is irregular (sometimes the heel, sometimes the toe) then that's a sign that you should trim the length. If you're not hitting the sweet spot and you're hitting the same spot most of the time then the problem is in your setup or swing, and trimming the length isn't the primary concern.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Interesting conversation with a club builder today about shaft length and the variations that come from amateurs. Pertaining strictly to the driver, it brought up some interesting questions and how length is often overused as a crutch of evil when its not really being measured the same way each time.

Do you grip the club in the exact same spot every time?
Do you stand the exact same distance from the ball every time?
Is the club grounded or hovered in the same location each time?
Do your golf shoes features all of the same spikes?


In his views (although I tend to share them), he brought up the fact that trimming an inch, or a half inch, etc is more of a mental dynamic than physical since the above will change from swing to swing. Now with that said, he made sure I mention that he is not downplaying the idea that length and fitting is important, as is how much of a role the mind plays.

The view was that each of the above could count for a 1/4 inch difference from swing to swing or round to round. Very interesting take and one that makes a lot of sense to me.

What I took away from this post is that until the underlined questions above can all be answered yes, the length of the driver has much less effect than an erratic position at address. I definitely agree with that and believe that driver length can be used as a crutch or excuse for not hitting the center of the face, when most of the time it's not. With that said there are exceptions to the rule, this is not an absolute statement. If you're on the taller or shorter end of the height spectrum your driver probably does need adjusted. I think the average driver length on tour is shorter than the standard length you can go out and buy off the shelf.
 
I can definitely buy shoes making a difference - I switched to spikeless shoes after realizing I was hitting the ball better in my sneakers at the range. Maybe it was mental but it made a big difference.
 
Yes to all except the last one, I have like 6 different pairs of spikeless (and one spiked) golf shoes and obviously each sets up differently.

I posted an earlier thread about the effect of golf shoes on the swing, I somehow felt some golf shoes had heels or soles too high off the ground for me. Either the heels were a tad higher, so I was kinda bending down more, or I was, or I felt, that I was off the ground a bit more, kinda like platform shoes.

Ergo, I'm a bit like MPeterson, I prefer to be closer and flatter to the ground.

For driver length, I'm doing a (not totally scientific) experiment. It's not totally scientific because the specs of the brands, lofts and shafts are not exactly the same. But I've had better drives with the drivers of standard off-the-shelf lengths and those that I added one more inch, compared to drivers I've cut half an inch off.

I know that many suggest that I should play better with shorter drivers, and I'm only 5'10", but my own experience has taught me that I drive better with a longer shaft.
 
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