- Staff
- #26
Great post here.
Play what you enjoy.
For me, going back to players irons has considerably lowered my scores. I just play better with more demanding irons.
Moving to SGI irons to lower scores?
Play what you enjoy.
For me, going back to players irons has considerably lowered my scores. I just play better with more demanding irons.
I've gone the route of SGI - PXG 0311 XF - and my iron game has improved over the last 2 years on the course. Even when I blade one, it still goes - not pretty, but on or around the green. Scores? My hc has remained the same over the last year but that's because of a swing change and a complete retooling of my short game. But now I see the scores getting better as I get more comfortable.
I believe in playing the irons with which you can still score on an "off" day. The BB OS - I've hit a friend's set. The PW may get in your head. It's big, but you should have fun with them. Every club has its pros and cons - I'd use them as I did - to work on your swing.
My plan is to hit the i500 and 919Forged, and see what happens since I'm getting more comfortable with my swing changes over the last 18 months. I'm starting to hit center face most of the time, and I'd like a smaller footprint in the rough, as long as I can handle the club. And I'd have no trouble sticking with the SGI. That big head gives one comfort.
Good luck.
Edit: Watch the shafts and get the right one for you. I have found out that lighter shafts do not necessarily translate to more distance or consistency. Over the last 10 years, I've gone from 115 to 75g - my sweetspot in graphite is probably 85-95g, and in steel may be about 105g. Wedges - about 120g in steel. That's why you get fit.
I believe in playing the irons with which you can still score on an "off" day. The BB OS - I've hit a friend's set. The PW may get in your head. It's big, but you should have fun with them. Every club has its pros and cons - I'd use them as I did - to work on your swing.
My plan is to hit the i500 and 919Forged, and see what happens since I'm getting more comfortable with my swing changes over the last 18 months. I'm starting to hit center face most of the time, and I'd like a smaller footprint in the rough, as long as I can handle the club. And I'd have no trouble sticking with the SGI. That big head gives one comfort.
Good luck.
Edit: Watch the shafts and get the right one for you. I have found out that lighter shafts do not necessarily translate to more distance or consistency. Over the last 10 years, I've gone from 115 to 75g - my sweetspot in graphite is probably 85-95g, and in steel may be about 105g. Wedges - about 120g in steel. That's why you get fit.
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Lighter shafts in irons certainly make me less accurate. There are also design characteristics in “SGI” or even “GI” irons that also make them less accurate that a more compact design for some of us. SGI irons normally have a thick sole and a CG to increase launch, 2 other characteristics that can hurt the better player. I played Callaway XR irons for about 18 months an although they gave me more distance, I had trouble with distance control. I get nearly the same forgiveness on mishits with my current set without the “explosive” distance that would leave me well past my target with my XR’s on about 15% of my approach shots.
jbandalo
Active member
- Thread starter
- #29
This is a good point. I also find that with weaker shafts, I'm less accurate on mis hits. Stiffer shafts (all things being equal), allow my mis hits to go straighter but shorter. I'm hoping that the BB OS's (they're "only" stiff 780 recoils and I currently play extra stiff recoil 110's), will cause me to slow down my tempo as I don't need to go after them as they should in theory launch higher and go farther naturally. I'll know pretty quick if they'll work or not when they arrive (I use arccos so my stats will show if they're an improvement or not in a round or two). If not, I can simply send them back for a full refund. Either way, I'm curious more than anything.
- Admin
- #30
One important note, especially with graphite shafts is lighter weight does not mean weaker flex.
scottmti
Passionate Hacker
I tried SGI G400.
I didn’t notice any better scores. It was fun to hit it but my misses were all over the place. Looking down at that huge real estate of face. I just want to swing hard and let it fly. Yes it’s a mental thing for me.
Replace it with CF16 and I calm down little and started playing and score better.
I’m experimenting with Z765 cause it just feels so soft and smooth. They both play similar but Srixon feels so much better. CF16 is 1/2 club longer but spins less. SGI might give you better chance of scoring better if your iron play is weak but for me it didn’t translate to better score.
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I didn’t notice any better scores. It was fun to hit it but my misses were all over the place. Looking down at that huge real estate of face. I just want to swing hard and let it fly. Yes it’s a mental thing for me.
Replace it with CF16 and I calm down little and started playing and score better.
I’m experimenting with Z765 cause it just feels so soft and smooth. They both play similar but Srixon feels so much better. CF16 is 1/2 club longer but spins less. SGI might give you better chance of scoring better if your iron play is weak but for me it didn’t translate to better score.
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Acesteve
Well-known member
seems proximity to hole is the key to scoring along with being able to putt. I had a day a few weeks ago where I drove the ball well and putted well but had a very blah score. Problem was I was on the fringe or 100ft putt from Pin in regulation. My probability of bogie from this position greater then birdie.
so for some a SGI might help with proximity to pin depending on they type of miss while others might not see much gain.
so for some a SGI might help with proximity to pin depending on they type of miss while others might not see much gain.
So true.
And the point about lighter shafts and inconsistency or not even getting more distance due to whatever physics is well made. A lot of people/clubmakers were on the light bandwagon for more, uh, mature players who need speed. But all I've found is inconsistency in 75g shafts in irons - I'm moving up to 85g and may add counterweights just to add a little weight.
Chisag
Active member
... Golf is such a unique game. Because the same kind of equipment discussions would be silly in other sports. Would an outfielder play a smaller glove because they can focus better when running down fly balls? Would an infielder be better of with a larger glove able to snag grounders just out of reach? Would a tennis player be better off with a smaller racket so they can hit more precise groundstrokes or concentrate better on their serves?
... Equipment serves a specific purpose, just like an outfielder or infielder need different gloves. I will probably have this inscribed on my tombstone "play the most forgiving irons you can effectively play". For a very select few that means MB's. For a slightly larger group of really good ball strikers that means players irons. But most would play their best golf with either GI or SGI irons. It all depends on how well you strike the ball, how repeatable is your swing, how much spin you produce and what kind of shots you want to hit. For most hitting a higher, straighter shot is the goal so find something that helps you do exactly that.
... Teaching for 5 years I think those that say SGI or GI irons make them think they can kill the ball is a mental swing flaw, just like any other mechanical swing flaw. A student that has too strong of a grip and tells me in their first lesson "I hook the ball too much but don't wanna change my grip. I did that with another instructor and it ruined my swing. So lets fix my hook without changing my grip." It is doable of course, but they are just making it much harder than it needs to be. Same thing for thinking a SGI causes you to swing too hard. That is really just poor mental discipline. I can honestly say I have never hit any club that changed my swing tempo.
... So my advice is demo or play the most forgiving clubs you can and work your way toward less forgiving but more exact clubs that fit your ball striking and skill level. If you are hitting SGI or GI irons well, there is no need to progress to players irons, which is really a silly name because it makes golfers think to be a "player" they need to change their irons. I would prefer something like Game Enhancement or GE irons. And of course conversely, if you are hitting players irons and are not hitting the ball well demo a more forgiving iron and keep trying more and more forgiving irons until you find the clubs that match your ball striking ability and help you play your best golf.
... Equipment serves a specific purpose, just like an outfielder or infielder need different gloves. I will probably have this inscribed on my tombstone "play the most forgiving irons you can effectively play". For a very select few that means MB's. For a slightly larger group of really good ball strikers that means players irons. But most would play their best golf with either GI or SGI irons. It all depends on how well you strike the ball, how repeatable is your swing, how much spin you produce and what kind of shots you want to hit. For most hitting a higher, straighter shot is the goal so find something that helps you do exactly that.
... Teaching for 5 years I think those that say SGI or GI irons make them think they can kill the ball is a mental swing flaw, just like any other mechanical swing flaw. A student that has too strong of a grip and tells me in their first lesson "I hook the ball too much but don't wanna change my grip. I did that with another instructor and it ruined my swing. So lets fix my hook without changing my grip." It is doable of course, but they are just making it much harder than it needs to be. Same thing for thinking a SGI causes you to swing too hard. That is really just poor mental discipline. I can honestly say I have never hit any club that changed my swing tempo.
... So my advice is demo or play the most forgiving clubs you can and work your way toward less forgiving but more exact clubs that fit your ball striking and skill level. If you are hitting SGI or GI irons well, there is no need to progress to players irons, which is really a silly name because it makes golfers think to be a "player" they need to change their irons. I would prefer something like Game Enhancement or GE irons. And of course conversely, if you are hitting players irons and are not hitting the ball well demo a more forgiving iron and keep trying more and more forgiving irons until you find the clubs that match your ball striking ability and help you play your best golf.
Word. I have seen these mental barriers/flaws in many hobbies. In order to be "on the next level" you need be able to this and that with the equipment. That is just wrong. Only thing that matters is the outcome or end result. Out should not matter which clubs you use to break 100/90/80 or win the majors.
jbandalo
Active member
- Thread starter
- #37
That was a quick test. Took the BB OS irons out to the range and the thick bottoms were no fun and actually thought they were not any easier to hit (still they were straight and high) and couldn’t work them as easy as my Apex Pros. Apex Pros are staying in the bag (felt so much better and easier to work) and sent back the BB OS’s. Played yesterday with my Apex’s and my iron play was solid.
The soles of those 2 clubs are definitely a world apart so they aren't for everybody. The BB OS are more of a point and shoot club. I would think that most clubs that fall into what most people consider the SGI category will have larger soles on them by design.
I think forgiveness is a bit overrated. Regardless of what kind of club you play, you still have to put a decent swing on the ball.