Pro Football HOF'ers Demands

The fact that you tried to equate professional entertainers with military members tells me that your argument is 100% invalid. Those two should not be mentioned in the same sentence. One is prepared to give their life to better the lives of others. The other is simply there to entertain.

I believe that all humans, athletes, movie stars, doctors, lawyers, school teachers, Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, Marines, stay at home moms, Uber drivers, and folks from all other walks of life, make conscious decisions to do things. Some choose to play a game, some choose to play make believe, some choose to save lives in the OR, some choose to defend others accused of crimes. Some choose to teach young children, some choose a life of service and the offering up of their life to defend the freedom so cherished by others, some choose to spend their lives caring for their families by maintaining a home for them to come to after school or work so they can relax, some choose to drive around shuttling strangers to Starbucks, sporting events, malls, or wherever they're going, and many choose other endeavors. Alas, some choose to turn to drugs and/or alcohol when the going gets tough. That is no one's fault, but the person who makes that choice. To blame it on your boss is childish.

To compare treatment for PTSD (which, I believe (though it's nearly impossible to prove) is far over diagnosed) caused by the horrible things our troops witness in combat to a junkie choosing to be addicted to drugs is asinine. PTSD - not voluntary. Drug addiction - voluntary.

If someone's profession is to "entertain" as you call it it doesn't lessen their value as a human being because they chose a different profession. Additionally, I would be willing to bet the most forms of drug and alcohol addiction stem from another root cause source as a coping mechanism to another form of mental illness, whether that be PTSD, depression, etc. My point is that people who suffer some sort of trauma such as PTSD may turn to drugs to cope with the situation. The same type of thing can be said for pro athletes in the same manner mentioned (head injuries and depression)specifically in the article I posted. I think it is asinine to think the NFL can claim plausible deniability to the results of injuries caused by the hands of their activity that has now literally been proven to cause severe brain injuries. Those injuries have more downstream effects on the mental state of the players that all stems for the activities

We can agree to disagree and leave it at that.
 
If someone's profession is to "entertain" as you call it it doesn't lessen their value as a human being because they chose a different profession. Additionally, I would be willing to bet the most forms of drug and alcohol addiction stem from another root cause source as a coping mechanism to another form of mental illness, whether that be PTSD, depression, etc. My point is that people who suffer some sort of trauma such as PTSD may turn to drugs to cope with the situation. The same type of thing can be said for pro athletes in the same manner mentioned (head injuries and depression)specifically in the article I posted. I think it is asinine to think the NFL can claim plausible deniability to the results of injuries caused by the hands of their activity that has now literally been proven to cause severe brain injuries. Those injuries have more downstream effects on the mental state of the players that all stems for the activities

We can agree to disagree and leave it at that.

That's fine. You don't have to agree. You're free to think I'm crazy. I'm sure you aren't the first. Bottom line is, when you say "turn to drugs to cope", what you fail to admit is they choose drugs. There are many alternatives. The addict alone is responsible for that choice.
 
That's fine. You don't have to agree. You're free to think I'm crazy. I'm sure you aren't the first. Bottom line is, when you say "turn to drugs to cope", what you fail to admit is they choose drugs. There are many alternatives. The addict alone is responsible for that choice.

And all I am trying to say is that the NFL is not absolved from a duty to help them. If everyone was able to think clearly and always make the right choices we wouldn't lose so many great people to suicide or addiction. My whole point was that the NFL should offer enough support services to the players to try to help them with the issues that stem from their participation in the NFL.
 
So you believe the NFL, who treats the players like gladiators and knows they put their bodies on the line for their personal profit, has no social responsibility to provide mental and physical counseling for the after effects of playing in the NFL and should just be cast aside?

You were in the military. I assume that you support better treatment and counseling options for soldiers who suffer from PTSD and have addictions caused by that. I can't believe that anyone would go tell a former soldier that they should have known better when they joined the military and we aren't going to offer you any help because of it.

This is an article about a hockey player but it holds similar parallels to football players in regards to addiction and mental illness. whether you are a professional football player, hockey player, are soldier, there seem to be plenty of similarities of the risks of your chosen profession and mental illness and addiction that can come from it.

https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en-us/articles/nick-boynton-everythings-not-ok

The NFL and all other professional sports need to provide more of their profits to assist former players with proper mental and physical care due to the risks brought on from their participation. I don't think anything will change my mind on that.

Hold on 1 minute.
There is a BIGGGGG Difference between people who enlist in the Military and Overpaid Athletes.

None of the Players in the NFL are forced to play football and we have seen more than a few walk away early due to future health concerns.

People who enlist in the Military are willing to Sacrifice EVERYTHING unlike that POS Kapernick who sacrificed NOTHING!!!

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So you believe the NFL, who treats the players like gladiators and knows they put their bodies on the line for their personal profit, has no social responsibility to provide mental and physical counseling for the after effects of playing in the NFL and should just be cast aside?

You were in the military. I assume that you support better treatment and counseling options for soldiers who suffer from PTSD and have addictions caused by that. I can't believe that anyone would go tell a former soldier that they should have known better when they joined the military and we aren't going to offer you any help because of it.

This is an article about a hockey player but it holds similar parallels to football players in regards to addiction and mental illness. whether you are a professional football player, hockey player, are soldier, there seem to be plenty of similarities of the risks of your chosen profession and mental illness and addiction that can come from it.

https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en-us/articles/nick-boynton-everythings-not-ok

The NFL and all other professional sports need to provide more of their profits to assist former players with proper mental and physical care due to the risks brought on from their participation. I don't think anything will change my mind on that.

You lost me as soon as you wrote highly paid athletes and combats vets in the same sentence. There is a major difference, an athlete can walk away from the sport but a Marine, soldier or other member of the military can't just walk away from the horrors of combat. I have been in combat twice and fortunately do not have PTSD but have friends that do and it is real. I'm sure getting hit by a 300 lb DE even while wearing pads sucks but I'll take that all day over some of the things I have witnessed and had to do......

The HOF'ers demands are ridiculous in the fact that they are not lobbying for all the players past and present but only for themselves. If they wanted to use their status to help all players that is one thing but it seems they are saying we deserve this because we are HOF'ers.
 
I have been in combat twice and fortunately do not have PTSD but have friends that do and it is real.

Question for you, are you saying that CTE (leading to depression/suicide/other mental issues) and other physical harm pro athletes endure (in some cases chronic pain bad enough that they no longer can walk) is not real and is something that they can just walk away from? I’m not questioning the sacrifices between pro athletes and combat vets, Im questioning the fact that they both may endure physical/mental issues that can lead to drug dependency.

It also doesn’t help that back in the day (not sure if it’s as prevalent today as it was in the past) pro team trainers would force feed pain meds to players just to keep them on the field without thinking about future side effects and addiction problems.



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Question for you, are you saying that CTE (leading to depression/suicide/other mental issues) and other physical harm pro athletes endure (in some cases chronic pain bad enough that they no longer can walk) is not real and is something that they can just walk away from? I’m not questioning the sacrifices between pro athletes and combat vets, Im questioning the fact that they both may endure physical/mental issues that can lead to drug dependency.

It also doesn’t help that back in the day (not sure if it’s as prevalent today as it was in the past) pro team trainers would force feed pain meds to players just to keep them on the field without thinking about future side effects and addiction problems.



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This is my point. Also when people use the term “overpaid athlete” they clearly have a bias against them and they use the fact that they make more money than a regular middle class citizen to justify a lack of sympathy towards their issues.


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Question for you, are you saying that CTE (leading to depression/suicide/other mental issues) and other physical harm pro athletes endure (in some cases chronic pain bad enough that they no longer can walk) is not real and is something that they can just walk away from? I’m not questioning the sacrifices between pro athletes and combat vets, Im questioning the fact that they both may endure physical/mental issues that can lead to drug dependency.

It also doesn’t help that back in the day (not sure if it’s as prevalent today as it was in the past) pro team trainers would force feed pain meds to players just to keep them on the field without thinking about future side effects and addiction problems.



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I never said that CTE is not real. I did say they can walk away from the sport BEFORE they get to the point that they are affected mentally and physically. There is no comparison between a athletes physical/mental trauma from playing a game and PTSD from combat. Period. End of story.

I personally don't give a damn that pro athletes make a ton of money.
 
I never said that CTE is not real. I did say they can walk away from the sport BEFORE they get to the point that they are affected mentally and physically. There is no comparison between a athletes physical/mental trauma from playing a game and PTSD from combat. Period. End of story.

I personally don't give a damn that pro athletes make a ton of money.

Why does it have to be one or the other, why can’t both professions get health coverage for physical and mental issues that are clearly developed on the job?

A lot of these physical and mental issues develop over time and come into play years after leaving the sport, how are they supposed to know when to walk away?



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I never said that CTE is not real. I did say they can walk away from the sport BEFORE they get to the point that they are affected mentally and physically. There is no comparison between a athletes physical/mental trauma from playing a game and PTSD from combat. Period. End of story.

I personally don't give a damn that pro athletes make a ton of money.

I think that is the point. 10 years ago barely anybody knew what CTE was. In the same manner barely anyone paid attention to PTSD. Now that knowledge is available, people can choose to not join the military or not to play football because there is more information available and they can better understand the risks involved.

My entire point in this discussion is simply that the NFL should have a social responsibility to provide care for individuals who suffer effects of their participation. I also believe the same applies to the government for military personnel.

The reasoning I’m hearing against my thoughts always seem to return back to the fact the athletes are paid a lot of money. If it truly doesn’t matter how much money they make, it should have never been brought into the conversation that they are “overpaid”


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Social responsibility?
 
I will be that person

All the 'I can't get through a day without painkillers / alcholol / etc' and becoming an addict is still on the individual, regardless of their occupation

And the crap about people being too proud to seek help, is just that, crap. There are more and more services out there nowadays to help with all kinds of issues people have, including those in the forces who have seen and done things that will live with them for the rest of their lives

It isn't all about someone else making sure you are okay, we all have a duty to look after ourselves and our family and burying your head in the sand becoming an addict is not going to get rid of the problem

That is my personal opinion on it all, and I say that as someone with 25+ years working in the health service at times alongside addiction services, family in the forces and family that have worked in some of the highest stress environments and suffered breakdowns because of it
 
I will be that person

All the 'I can't get through a day without painkillers / alcholol / etc' and becoming an addict is still on the individual, regardless of their occupation

And the crap about people being too proud to seek help, is just that, crap. There are more and more services out there nowadays to help with all kinds of issues people have, including those in the forces who have seen and done things that will live with them for the rest of their lives

It isn't all about someone else making sure you are okay, we all have a duty to look after ourselves and our family and burying your head in the sand becoming an addict is not going to get rid of the problem

That is my personal opinion on it all, and I say that as someone with 25+ years working in the health service at times alongside addiction services, family in the forces and family that have worked in some of the highest stress environments and suffered breakdowns because of it

Yes, there are services out there and the more the better. And those services for people who seek help exist because others take it upon them to provide help. The NFL, the government, or an employer that provides assistance services do so because they feel they have a social responsibility to help people.

You can lead a horse to water but you can’t force it to drink.


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I have 25 years in my industry, so when I retire I want my pension and a salary - never going to happen, so why should certain retired players receive a salary on top of whatever pension they already have?

Personally I agree with the comment about them having wasted their money so they want a handout, and if the NFL gives in to them then they are in for a whole world of claims coming in from anyone else



Turning to painkillers to be able to function is still on them though, nobody else has forced them to get addicted to them
I don't feel it is entirely down to the league to support them, it is the responsibility of the teams to manage the health of their players

Looking at it from another perspective, how many 'injured' players have cost their teams a win because they shouldn't really be on the pitch due to whatever injury they have? If teams managed their players better by resting and rotating the squad then it wouldn't be an issue - it happens in other sports, so why not this one?

I knew and then confirmed my belief that you were from across the pond when you said "on the pitch", lol.

We call it a field here. Or perhaps for the older folks, The Gridiron. "The pitch" is something that happens in baseball on this side of the pond... :)

To your point, through the NFLPA labor agreement, rosters are limited to 53. Barely enough for a starter and a backup for each position. Only 46 are allowed to dress on gameday. Not even a starter and a backup for all positions. About the only guy that doesn't see the field is the backup(s) QB. Not much resting when you have that size of roster. Most HS football teams, even on the smaller school level, have 80+ on their sidelines.

I will agree that there are issues with players playing injured and not getting proper rest. They do so for the same reason that I've never missed a day of work in my adult life. I don't typically use painkillers but there have been a few days where I've battled kidney stones that I have.

There is for sure a dark and ugly side to the NFL but if someone told me that I could suit up and go out there and play and make a minimum of 550,000 a year or so to do it, sign me up! Twice! :)
 
And all I am trying to say is that the NFL is not absolved from a duty to help them. If everyone was able to think clearly and always make the right choices we wouldn't lose so many great people to suicide or addiction. My whole point was that the NFL should offer enough support services to the players to try to help them with the issues that stem from their participation in the NFL.

So, if I feel stressed out at my job (presumably from being on THP so much while at work), start using drugs to relieve my stress, and become addicted, my employer is responsible? I think not. Somewhere along the way, we've lost track of personal responsibility/accountability. We need to find it.
 
So, if I feel stressed out at my job (presumably from being on THP so much while at work), start using drugs to relieve my stress, and become addicted, my employer is responsible? I think not. Somewhere along the way, we've lost track of personal responsibility/accountability. We need to find it.

Responsibility and providing support services to help are 2 totally different things. I’ve never said the person doesn’t hold any responsibility for their actions. Only that the NFL should be good social citizens and offer assistance programs because their organization may have contributed to the mental and emotional state of the individual. I work for a major corporation and they offer mental health and support services. It’s just a good thing to do for people.

How is a portion of the NFL’s billion dollar revenue going to help former players with issues a bad thing regardless of who is to blame for those issues?


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