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Real Deal Tour Shafts Vs OEM Made For...Can you tell the difference...How?

Nippon Shafts
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lightningbolt44 said:
This is an interesting thread. For one most oems now offer the real deal off the rack and also have no upcharge real deal options so lets not apply logic from 5-10 years ago again. Things change people evolve and adapt to that change at their own pace.

Having a discussion about something is fine but the way this is being handled and the subtle shots nothing productive will come out of the discussion.

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I think prozone is inferring that the "real deal" shafts offered by oems are not what they claim.
 
Can we all agree this is the best shaft?

shaft1.jpg


Sorry, just trying to lighten up the mood on a Monday morning.
 
I find this thread hilarious... The consumer 'worried' about this topic at all is laughable... I would bet in my 32 man golf league, i'm the only one who even knows this discussion is being had... Most guys i play with go into Golf Galaxy, buy a club and go on their merry way... This isn't even remotely a concern.
 
I don't think I could tell the real OEM shaft from the "made for" just because of the label on the shaft. I can only equate it to the feel and results. Why would it matter?? Anything else would be pure guesswork for me!
 
ProZoneGolf said:
IMO: Anyone who supports that look a like made for shafts are just as good quality as the real deal...perhaps are in the pocket of OEM's...

Any Golf leaders working with OEM's in any way shape or form, need to apply pressure that made for shafts are are not disguised as real deal. You can have both, but don't try and fool the buyer he has what the pro's play by making the shaft look identical. Like that VW is a Porsche, regardless of how you drive it...

What leaders from THP are going to voice this concern...any?...were are you?...start a petition please
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Look at companies like Callaway and Cobra. Both offering MULTIPLE "real deal" shafts at no upcharge. There doesn't need to be a petition. I understand you have an agenda based on your line of work, but the amount of inaccuracies you are throwing around are ridiculous. 99.9999% of golfers don't need a Real Deal shaft to feel good about themselves. Hit everything you can, and go with what gives you the best numbers.. It is insanely simple.
 
blugold said:
I think prozone is inferring that the "real deal" shafts offered by oems are not what they claim.
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I think he is more talking about the oem shafts that have tweaked the shaft profile wise then marketed as the same shaft.
A shaft to me that has the same profile regardless of where it is made is that shaft. Are some tighter qc on tour sure they are that is why they are tour issue.

I would be curious to hear how oems now offering "real" shafts as upgrades for no cost is affecting club makers that used to make their money on selling those same aftermarket shafts that are now free.

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lightningbolt44 said:
I would be curious to hear how oems now offering "real" shafts as upgrades for no cost is affecting club makers that used to make their money on selling those same aftermarket shafts that are now free.
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Nailed it!
 
lightningbolt44 said:
I think he is more talking about the oem shafts that have tweaked the shaft profile wise then marketed as the same shaft.
A shaft to me that has the same profile regardless of where it is made is that shaft. Are some tighter qc on tour sure they are that is why they are tour issue.

I would be curious to hear how oems now offering "real" shafts as upgrades for no cost is affecting club makers that used to make their money on selling those same aftermarket shafts that are now free.

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It's irons, so not exactly apples to apples, but look at the DG tour issue for a perfect example of what you said - that's just them measuring them to make sure they're exactly within spec to tighter tolerances. That takes time, and time is more money. Doesn't surprise me that the stuff going out to the tour vans is looked at to a greater degree - those guys are making their living on this.
 
lightningbolt44 said:
I think he is more talking about the oem shafts that have tweaked the shaft profile wise then marketed as the same shaft.
A shaft to me that has the same profile regardless of where it is made is that shaft. Are some tighter qc on tour sure they are that is why they are tour issue.

I would be curious to hear how oems now offering "real" shafts as upgrades for no cost is affecting club makers that used to make their money on selling those same aftermarket shafts that are now free.

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Prozone brought up the Rouge i/o offered by Callaway. It is the 110msi version of that shaft. The Rogue that many tour players play is 125msi. So, I am assuming his contention, when we as a consumer go buy a Rogue shaft for our brand new and awesome Big Bertha 816 Double Black Diamond, many thing think it's the same shaft that guys on tour use which is incorrect. We as consumers are being dupped into thinking we are getting the same stuff as tour players and that is dishonest on the part of OEMs. I believe that is what Prozone is saying, I disagree and have no idea what he is really trying to get at. The MSI is clearly stamped right on the shaft.

I believe that ProZone is saying that OEMs are being dishonest greedy money grabbers who are taking advantage of our ignorance. I may be putting words in his mouth, but that is what I am gathering.
 
ProZoneGolf said:
I don't think OEM's should be allowed to sell shafts in clubs, that are not the same as the real deal, yet look the same. I think its very miss-leading verging on illegal. Its not the point that the made for shaft fits the head for the average player, its a different shaft all together. I call it a knock off from the shaft company sold to the OEM. In most cases the average player never buys the real deal and does not know the difference to comment. If you have played both please comment. In most cases the real deal has tighter spec's, sorted and tested for tighter quality control, made in Japan, not China, or in a different factory, has higher quality materials, all resulting in said trajectories, tighter dispersion, and longer drives as they fit the said cpm to a tighter 1-3 cpm range.

Do you think retail buyers should have the option to buy a new driver head without a made for shaft, at a cheaper price?
Can you comment on any club manufacturers that have real deal shafts, or say they do?...or any that don't but sell the shaft like it is real deal? Are the reps telling the truth?

Many websites / forums / forum leaders and moderators that help market for OEM's, take OEM $$$ in advertising, Take OEM freebies to test and review are also to blame as they bias report on the made for shafts to be real or just as good, yet they have not tested either. I think they are drinking the Kool-Aide...

I would like to see head to head tests of OEM made for clubs/shafts tested against the real deal shafts, by golf advocates, site leaders, equipment reviewers and players.

Perhaps the THP can add a section to their club clash, were they range test made for Vs real deal in the same head, and let the members feel any preformance difference for the additional upcharge costs. This could help players special order a aftermarket shaft and save some money on the purchase. I suggest GBB/665 Vs GBB 661 real deal shaft, chime in if you would like to test the difference,
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To comment on that as well. If consumers are that concerned many oems DO offer a VERY select few club makers the ability to buy head only and then do the shaft installation and fit themselves. The consumer can buy from those builders if they think the oem is trying to pull one over on them (they are not).

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blugold said:
Prozone brought up the Rouge i/o offered by Callaway. It is the 110msi version of that shaft. The Rogue that many tour players play is 125msi. So, I am assuming his contention, when we as a consumer go buy a Rogue shaft for our brand new and awesome Big Bertha 816 Double Black Diamond, many thing think it's the same shaft that guys on tour use which is incorrect. We as consumers are being dupped into thinking we are getting the same stuff as tour players and that is dishonest on the part of OEMs. I believe that is what Prozone is saying, I disagree and have no idea what he is really trying to get at. The MSI is clearly stamped right on the shaft.

I believe that ProZone is saying that OEMs are being dishonest greedy money grabbers who are taking advantage of our ignorance. I may be putting words in his mouth, but that is what I am gathering.
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I beleive Prozone is being dishonest by saying that the average golfer wants or even can play what the tour pros play.
 
blugold said:
Prozone brought up the Rouge i/o offered by Callaway. It is the 110msi version of that shaft. The Rogue that many tour players play is 125msi. So, I am assuming his contention, when we as a consumer go buy a Rogue shaft for our brand new and awesome Big Bertha 816 Double Black Diamond, many thing think it's the same shaft that guys on tour use which is incorrect. We as consumers are being dupped into thinking we are getting the same stuff as tour players and that is dishonest on the part of OEMs. I believe that is what Prozone is saying, I disagree and have no idea what he is really trying to get at. The MSI is clearly stamped right on the shaft.

I believe that ProZone is saying that OEMs are being dishonest greedy money grabbers who are taking advantage of our ignorance. I may be putting words in his mouth, but that is what I am gathering.
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They are marketed and sold as two different shafts. They are clearly marked and you can get both aftermarket the 110 is not a made for.

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MPlefty said:
I beleive Prozone is being dishonest by saying that the average golfer wants or even can play what the tour pros play.
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lightningbolt44 said:
They are marketed and sold as two different shafts. They are clearly marked and you can get both aftermarket the 110 is not a made for.

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I am on the same page as both of you. I really am. I think this argument is ridiculous.

I have a hunch that this started because some witchcraft voodoo trying to spine a shaft caused inconsistent results. Which is a completely different debate.
 
I honestly believe that the terms "better" "worse" is being thrown around loosely. Are the made for shafts different from the original aftermarket stuff? Yes the oems admit that many have been tweaked to better match the head for a vast majority. The differences come from the fact that most consumers are purchasing mass produced stuff intended for the masses. Doesn't that make sense? There are those 1%ers of course that feel the need or think that the tour quality stuff is the best. To compare the needs of a tour pro to the needs of average amateur is pretty weird to say the least. I believe most of the contention comes from egos of people and there are people/businesses that cater to that. This is coming from me, and those that know me will have a good laugh this morning haha
 
From what I am gathering, prozone is assuming that the OEM is intentionally selling exotic shafts that are not true aftermarket. Thus why he thinks the consumer is being duped. Supporting such theory by attaching an editorial link.

However, this is really all assumption and this goes for both sides of the argument. Unless we have an employee openly admit to such falsehoods we can try to debunk this conspiracy in circles. It would never end. And I doubt we would ever see such an omission.
 
What's next the "green grass" balls are better discussion

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blugold said:
Prozone brought up the Rouge i/o offered by Callaway. It is the 110msi version of that shaft. The Rogue that many tour players play is 125msi. So, I am assuming his contention, when we as a consumer go buy a Rogue shaft for our brand new and awesome Big Bertha 816 Double Black Diamond, many thing think it's the same shaft that guys on tour use which is incorrect. We as consumers are being dupped into thinking we are getting the same stuff as tour players and that is dishonest on the part of OEMs. I believe that is what Prozone is saying, I disagree and have no idea what he is really trying to get at. The MSI is clearly stamped right on the shaft.

I believe that ProZone is saying that OEMs are being dishonest greedy money grabbers who are taking advantage of our ignorance. I may be putting words in his mouth, but that is what I am gathering.
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haha, and all of this means absolutely nothing when someone finds a setup that allows them to hit their perfect numbers.... I think too many people/clubfitters are focused on 'the perfect shaft' with 'the perfect specs' when it really does not matter. Essentially, most golfers don't need a rogue 125 that is fine tuned.... Most are enjoying the 110 Callaway provided, and hit it extremely well (by example).

Why would a regular golfer care even remotely if their shaft wasn't 'perfect' to spec yet completely perfect for them?
 
sleuth said:
From what I am gathering, prozone is assuming that the OEM is intentionally selling exotic shafts that are not true aftermarket. Thus why he thinks the consumer is being duped. Supporting such theory by attaching an editorial link.

However, this is really all assumption and this goes for both sides of the argument. Unless we have an employee openly admit to such falsehoods we can try to debunk this conspiracy in circles. It would never end. And I doubt we would ever see such an omission.
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Quoting myself here the consumer has options if they want to pay for it.
lightningbolt44 said:
To comment on that as well. If consumers are that concerned many oems DO offer a VERY select few club makers the ability to buy head only and then do the shaft installation and fit themselves. The consumer can buy from those builders if they think the oem is trying to pull one over on them (they are not).

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Canadan said:
haha, and all of this means absolutely nothing when someone finds a setup that allows them to hit their perfect numbers.... I think too many people/clubfitters are focused on 'the perfect shaft' with 'the perfect specs' when it really does not matter. Essentially, most golfers don't need a rogue 125 that is fine tuned.... Most are enjoying the 110 Callaway provided, and hit it extremely well (by example).

Why would a regular golfer care even remotely if their shaft wasn't 'perfect' to spec yet completely perfect for them?
Click to expand...

Along similar lines, why would something designed with a tour pro in mind be the best fit for even 1% of golfers?
 
ProZoneGolf said:
IMO: Anyone who supports that look a like made for shafts are just as good quality as the real deal...perhaps are in the pocket of OEM's...

Any Golf leaders working with OEM's in any way shape or form, need to apply pressure that made for shafts are are not disguised as real deal. You can have both, but don't try and fool the buyer he has what the pro's play by making the shaft look identical. Like that VW is a Porsche, regardless of how you drive it...

What leaders from THP are going to voice this concern...any?...were are you?...start a petition please
Click to expand...

Many thoughts to this...

1 - Not as many people as you think worry about a tour spec stamp on their shaft
2 - You're a clubmaker/fitter.. Don't you work with OEMs? What do they say to you?
3 - Have you ever seen a car commercial? "As shown above 35,000" when the base price is 26,000. "Being duped" or "being stupid" if someone thinks they are hitting the same club that Johnny Pro hits when the swing speed between the two players is greater than 30mph?
4 - It is getting very boring reading about being in the pocket of OEMs. It makes you sound bitter... With an agenda..
5 - I think if I would petition for anything in the golf industry right now, it would be improved launch monitors in any store selling golf equipment. That is sooooo much bigger of an issue than this is.
 
Canadan said:
Why would a regular golfer care even remotely if their shaft wasn't 'perfect' to spec yet completely perfect for them?
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I think there is a desire to play equipment that has specs perfect for a tour player, regardless if it fits the amateur consumer. I would also venture an assumption that 95% of amateurs could care less what the MSI of their Rogue i/o is. I would also guess that an even greater percentage has no idea what MSI even refers or how to understand it in relation to a golf swing
 
Canadan said:
5 - I think if I would petition for anything in the golf industry right now, it would be improved launch monitors in any store selling golf equipment. That is sooooo much bigger of an issue than this is.
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This. So much this.
 
blugold said:
I think there is a desire to play equipment that has specs perfect for a tour player. I would also venture a ln assumption that 95% of amateurs could care less what the MSI of their Rogue i/o is. I would also guess that an even greater percentage has no idea what MSI even refers or how to understand it in relation to a golf swing
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I would be willing to bet that less than 0.5% of golfers fit that category... So no petition needed?
 
Canadan said:
I would be willing to bet that less than 0.5% of golfers fit that category... So no petition needed?
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Petitions are fun.
 
I've had a chance to swing a "Tour made shaft" and tons of OEM "normal" shafts and as long as the profiles are similar, MOST (myself included) wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

Shafts have come along SO much over the last 10 to 15 years, maybe more so that most tech in the actual clubs, IMO.
 
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