hackitup

Some rando
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https://www.golfdigest.com/story/15...-and-tidbits-from-the-2017-18-pga-tour-season

3. Drive for show … and drive for dough, too: 11 players among the top 20 money winners finished in the top 25 for strokes gained/off-the-tee. Ditto for strokes gained/approach. Only four finished into the top 25 for strokes gained/putting.

This popped up on one of my feeds and it got me thinking. Isn’t this contrary to the old drive for show, putt for dough mantra? Some of the other tidbits were interesting but this one was not something I expected.
 
My iron play is good, but I score a lot better when driving is on and I have wedges into greens so this makes sense to me
 
I could sense where this might go:alien:
It comes down to where one hurts the most. All other things being equal between players the advantage will go to whomever is better at any one thing. if you and i were equal at evrything but you putted better you would gain advantage. if all things between was equal except you wer better from the tee you agan would vahe the advantage. That imo would apply to any part of the game anyone is better at while if all esle was equal.
 
I could sense where this might go:alien:
It comes down to where one hurts the most. All other things being equal between players the advantage will go to whomever is better at any one thing. if you and i were equal at evrything but you putted better you would gain advantage. if all things between was equal except you wer better from the tee you agan would vahe the advantage. That imo would apply to any part of the game anyone is better at while if all esle was equal.

That’s one of the things I didn’t like about it. There wasn’t an “of those 11, none were in the top 25 SG putting” or how many of those 11 were in both tee and approach lists. 2/3 categories should get some pretty good money.
 
personally i dont like ti use money eearnings or who may have won in which events. often it just comes down to who is/was hot on a given weekend. Im not a beleiver on the drive for show, putt for dough ideology. many would disagree with me. When imo we talk of our own games and getting better at playing the game within ourselvs. We then imo have to see just where we hurt ourselves the most. Its all important and it all counts as strokes from everywhere we play as we move through a round.
is one penal off the tee? chucnking and blading approaches or sending them errantly into troubles? using 2 and 3 chips to get on a green? constantly 3 or more putting? whatever the case it all add strokes equally in the math.
 
On the PGA tour it's all about ballstriking and who gets a hot putter for the week. Putting is very variable and over the course of the year the top money earners and winners are going to be the guys that are elite ballstrikers.


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For an average golfer, putting can turn a mediocre score into a respectable score. Conversely, good driving puts us into position to get on to or close to the green in regulation where good putting gets us chances at pars or birdies. Bad driving usually eliminates the chance to get close to a green in regulation, so no matter how good you are putting, its usually for a long par, bogey, or worse.
 
My iron play is good, but I score a lot better when driving is on and I have wedges into greens so this makes sense to me


... Yup, GIR's are the determining factor in lower scores. Hitting long drives in the fairway or first cut gives you the best chance at hitting your irons close. Quite a few holes can be attacked differently with a short iron than a mid to long iron. More flags to go right at with a pw in my hands than a 6 iron if the pin is close o the edge and deep rough or guarded by a deep bunker. Being a great putter does not help a ton if you are hitting your first putt from 20+ feet. Obviously if you are putting from 10' or closer, being a good putter makes a huge difference.
 
I always thought that expression was misguided at best. Hitting tee shots OB or in hazards will probably have a greater impact on score than so-so putting.
 
Striking accurate tee shots is very relevant to score.
Striking long distance tee shots is not.
The "drive for show" cliche is usually said within the context of a tee shot struck with long distance.
For average/regular type golf courses, ones in the 6,400 to 6,800 total yardage range, I think par 4 and par 5 tee shots struck with good accuracy in the 210 to 235 distance range is more than long enough yardage to shoot even par 72.
However if a player routinely three putts and, or,misses putts shorter than 5 feet, it is nearly impossible to shoot even par 72.
For shooting even par I think putting is much, much more significant than long distance drives. Now if a player only hits his tee ball 150 yards that is another story, but for 6,400 to 6,800 yard courses 210 to 235 yard tee box shots are plenty long enough.
 
This one ranks right alongside "Keep your head down." When was the last time you heard a top 100 golf instructor repeat "drive for show, putt for dough" as a legitimate piece of instruction? The fact is all three strokes gained matter, just to different degrees.

For the pros, the difference between a 300-yard drive down the middle and crooked drive into the woods can easily be one stroke or more. The difference between hitting an approach to 8 feet vs. missing the green? About half a stroke. The difference in made putts from 10-20 feet between the top 10 players in strokes gained-putting and a pro that is middle of the pack? About a tenth of a stroke per attempt.
 
My prior post focused on how this works out for the pros because that is what the Golf Digest article was looking at and focused upon. You may note that I thanked DG_1234 on his post because, for we mere mortals, it's somewhat different.

Hank Haney talks about eliminating penalty shots, two pitches/chips, and 3-putts as the key to lower scores for mid-to-high handicap players. Note: That is almost all about the short game. There are a few reasons why this makes sense.

1. Most blow up holes incorporate a failure in one or more of those categories.
2. For most of us, it is a fool's errand to think we're going to learn how to hit 350-yard drives consistently down the middle, nor as DG_1234 pointed out, do we need to on the courses we play.
3. We do have the physical ability to learn how to get out of the bunker more consistently, hit better and closer to the hole pitches, chips and putts more consistently.

Here are some stats to back this up.

According to GHIN, the average scratch golfer:
- Averages 260 yards off the tee (well short of the 300+ of the pros)
- Hits the fairway only 44% of the time
- Averages 0.6 penalty strokes per round (eliminated most penalty strokes)
- Hits about 60% GIR
- Gets up and down about 41% of the time (obviously eliminating 2 chips and 2 pitches)
- 1-putts 30% of the time
- 2-putts 65% of the time (leaving only 5% for 3-putts or more)

So, if you start with Hank's advice then add in more consistency in your full swing so you get more GIRs, you too can become a scratch or single-digit handicap golfer.
 
Striking accurate tee shots is very relevant to score.
Striking long distance tee shots is not.
The "drive for show" cliche is usually said within the context of a tee shot struck with long distance.

That makes sense. I’ve always just considered the saying in an overall scope of the tee shot context including accuracy. Probably because I’ve never heard it after a long errant shot. Thinking back, I’ve never heard it after an average distance drive that split the fairway.

Here are some stats to back this up.

According to GHIN, the average scratch golfer:
- Averages 260 yards off the tee (well short of the 300+ of the pros)
- Hits the fairway only 44% of the time
- Averages 0.6 penalty strokes per round (eliminated most penalty strokes)
- Hits about 60% GIR
- Gets up and down about 41% of the time (obviously eliminating 2 chips and 2 pitches)
- 1-putts 30% of the time
- 2-putts 65% of the time (leaving only 5% for 3-putts or more)

Interesting stats. Two of the biggest eye openers to me are the penalty strokes and 95% 2 putt or better. I kind of just figured penalties would be just over 1. No real idea why, just my perception. 5% 3 putts or worse would translate to about 1/rd for what I consider most average to pretty good putters (~36-30/rd). That’s a little more wiggle room than I thought. I figured 1 every 2-3 rounds. Again, just my perception.
 
I forget the exact number but if you hit every drive 250 dead in the fairway you would be dead last on tour in strokes gained driving.
 
any stroke lost anywhere is a stroke lost. There is no such thing as losing a stroke somewhere being any less important than losing one anywhere else. A stroke lost is another stroke added to the hole regardless. Whether we miss a 4 foot putt, or squibble a tee shot 50 yrds or chunck an approach iron 5yrds it doesnt matter. Everyone of them is a stroke lost against our score.

i do think for someone who is outright bad at greenside play that it is easier to get a bit more efficient at not being "bad" so that is one way to a little more quickly save some strokes. But over all strokes are strokes wherever they come from.
 
any stroke lost anywhere is a stroke lost. There is no such thing as losing a stroke somewhere being any less imprtant than losing one anywhere else. Whether we miss a 4 foot putt, or squibble a tee shot 50 yrds or chunck an a[proach iron 10 yrds it doesnt matter. Everyone of them is a stroke lost.

Haha so you agree that the area where the most strokes are lost would be the biggest area...weird.
 
Haha so you agree that the area where the most strokes are lost would be the biggest area...weird.

ahhhh, I think i know what your teasing me with.lol but not sure exactly what you mean..lol

if one screws up 10 chips via chuncking them and having to re-chip or 10 tee shots that cost an extra stroke, they hold the same value. the tee shot may actually cost 2 strokes if its S&D.
 
For me everything is set up from the tee. If my drives are good, long and in the fairway, I am going to hit some greens and If I hit some greens and can hopefully make some puts. But if my drive is in the trees and I have no clear shot its all a struggle from there. My putting is the most consistent part of my game, Terrible, but consistent. A whole round can be heavily influenced based on how well I am driving the ball that day cause Lord knows I am not making up many strokes on the green.
 
Bogus list. Didn't mention that Spieth led the tour in hand wipes with the towel before shots.
 
For me I know when I put my drive in the short grass my probability of a GIR goes up. When I do GIR my probability of a par or better also increases. Unless of course my putter is colder than a Witches boob. Like it was Sunday.
 
I divide my game into 4 categories. Driving, irons, short game (less than full shots including chipping, and putting.

If any one phase can almost guarantee a high score, it's when I can't keep the ball in play from the tee. Otherwise I may have a so-so day if any other phase is off. Including putting.

It's a thing of beauty when all 4 phases click, which only happens about twice a year.
 
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