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Real Deal Tour Shafts Vs OEM Made For...Can you tell the difference...How?

Nippon Shafts
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ProZoneGolf said:
Many could debate this...so why do they make them look identical to shafts that are worth $300 - $1000 real deal shafts ? I suspect your drinking the Kool Aide...
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I love real deal shafts, for me it's a mental thing. But I think you're getting really defensive of this. I suppose for your business you want everyone to believe that "made for" will not work for them and they should all spend the extra $200-300 on the real deal shaft. In all honesty wouldn't you need to find the same spot on the face a majority of the time to notice the tighter dispersion from the real deal shaft?


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ProZoneGolf said:
Many could debate this...so why do they make them look identical to shafts that are worth $300 - $1000 real deal shafts ? I suspect your drinking the Kool Aide...
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ProZone, THP visits countless shaft makers, club companies, and interviews the brightest in the business. Suggesting JB drinks the "kool aide" shows that you either don't bother enjoying some of the in depth and incredible information provided on this site, or have other motives.

Either way, it's not productive to this conversation. Maybe spend some time understanding why an OEM would focus on certain elements of a shaft to marry with their clubhead. You'll probably learn quickly that "watered down" is just an uneducated way of saying "not understanding" the process.

I still agree that it should be clear it's not the same shaft one would buy from an authorized fitter, but again, you're driving your own thread away from the intended conversation.
 
ProZoneGolf said:
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Wouldn't you think a video from 2016 is more viable? I'm basing my opinion on this past year specifically. (I'd hope any smart THPer would stay away from a "made for TaylorMade R11" shaft that's years old)
 
It's clear you have an agenda to push since you are obviously in the business of selling aftermarket shafts which in my opinion truly benefit a tiny section of amateur golfers.
 
Real Deal Tour Shafts Vs OEM Made For...Can you tell the difference...How?

Interesting thread and one that I can see merit in if discussed properly & not becoming passive aggressive with the insults of "testers, reviewers and forum leaders are leaches for the OEM's and thus perpetuate their marketing campaigns"

I will say that the average golfer (myself included) couldn't tell the difference between a made for or real deal shaft. Your lower caps? Possibly, but still that takes a finite "palate" to break down the nuances.

With OEM's being tasked to make clubs for the masses and not a particular segment, there is no way I would expect a real deal shaft to be the stock offering and keep prices sub $400 in the case of drivers. On the other hand I do see OEM's partnering with shaft companies to make a shaft to got their driver specifically (Oban Hashimoto and Callaway comes to mind) & being very successful at it. Whether Aldila, Mitsubishi, Fujikura, etc., these shafts are not inferior or watered down products. Anyone who thinks so is just looking to b*tch about something for the sake of bitching.

Like anything if you want to find a flaw you always will be able to because the OEM's will not please everyone. Their will alway be a lone dissenter with a conspiracy theory that a sub par set of goods is being passed off as the real deal and we are getting screwed because we don't know any better
 
mikeg_74 said:
Interesting thread and one that I can see merit in if discussed properly & not becoming passive aggressive with the insults of "testers, reviewers and forum leaders are leaches for the OEM's and thus perpetuate their marketing campaigns"

I will say that the average golfer (myself included) couldn't tell the difference between a made for or real deal shaft. Your lower caps? Possibly, but still that takes a finite "palate" to break down the nuances.

With OEM's being tasked to make clubs for the masses and not a particular segment, there is no way I would expect a real deal shaft to be the stock offering and keep prices sub $400 in the case of drivers. On the other hand I do see OEM's partnering with shaft companies to make a shaft to got their driver specifically (Oban Hashimoto and Callaway comes to mind) & being very successful at it. Whether Aldila, Mitsubishi, Fujikura, etc., these shafts are not inferior or watered down products. Anyone who thinks so is just looking to birch about something for the sake of bitching.

Like anything if you want to find a flaw you always will be able to because the OEM's will not please everyone. Their will alway be a lone dissenter with a conspiracy theory that a sub par set of goods is being passed off as the real deal and we are getting screwed because we don't know any better
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I agree that this is a topic that would be fun to discuss and even have some OEM's chime in with the cold hard facts. It's too bad it goes down the rabbit hole of defensiveness, ignorance, and the always predictable grammar correction.

In my case I've moved on from thinking made for shafts are inferior in any way and will admit to a mental hang up on the issue. I still don't understand why someone would take a different shaft that was manufactured in a different factory to different tolerance and performs different in a club - and slap an identical paint job and naming scheme from a different shaft on it.
 
fupresti said:
It's clear you have an agenda to push since you are obviously in the business of selling aftermarket shafts which in my opinion truly benefit a tiny section of amateur golfers.
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I don't...its just a issue of quality, and I would prefer the buyer not to walk out with the OEM club/shaft, IMO its better to upgrade to a real deal shaft with a special order from the OEM for not that much more money, the only problem with this is the customer will have to wait 1-2 weeks for delivery.
 
As long as the shaft fits and works for me, I could care less if it's the real deal, made for, watered down or whatever other term you want to use.

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mikeg_74 said:
Interesting thread and one that I can see merit in if discussed properly & not becoming passive aggressive with the insults of "testers, reviewers and forum leaders are leaches for the OEM's and thus perpetuate their marketing campaigns"

I will say that the average golfer (myself included) couldn't tell the difference between a made for or real deal shaft. Your lower caps? Possibly, but still that takes a finite "palate" to break down the nuances.

With OEM's being tasked to make clubs for the masses and not a particular segment, there is no way I would expect a real deal shaft to be the stock offering and keep prices sub $400 in the case of drivers. On the other hand I do see OEM's partnering with shaft companies to make a shaft to got their driver specifically (Oban Hashimoto and Callaway comes to mind) & being very successful at it. Whether Aldila, Mitsubishi, Fujikura, etc., these shafts are not inferior or watered down products. Anyone who thinks so is just looking to b*tch about something for the sake of bitching.

Like anything if you want to find a flaw you always will be able to because the OEM's will not please everyone. Their will alway be a lone dissenter with a conspiracy theory that a sub par set of goods is being passed off as the real deal and we are getting screwed because we don't know any better
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So why not compare made for watered down shafts Vs real deals at your club clash?...

No where did I say THP testers reviewers are leaches (your kind words)... I said 'I suspect reviewers are drinking Kool Aid'... this is simply means they are believing what they are told, in relation that OEM made for shafts are the same as real deal aftermarket ones. I don't believe this for a second....do you?
 
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ProZoneGolf said:
So why not compare made for watered down shafts Vs real deals at your club clash?
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My first guess would be the "Club" part of "Club Clash"

...and for what it's worth, I've been to lots of THP events where entire staff bags worth of shafts were available to hit, and there wasn't much time spent searching. Most people focused on hitting all the different companies with their stock offerings -- Probably because these companies are pairing shafts that work for most golfers.

You must be really pleased to see companies offer so many shafts at no upcharge this year. Great idea.
 
Canadan said:
My first guess would be the "Club" part of "Club Clash"

...and for what it's worth, I've been to lots of THP events where entire staff bags worth of shafts were available to hit, and there wasn't much time spent searching. Most people focused on hitting all the different companies with their stock offerings -- Probably because these companies are pairing shafts that work for most golfers.

You must be really pleased to see companies offer so many shafts at no upcharge this year. Great idea.
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and ultimately, isn't the goal to fit golfers or most golfers with a stock offering? If it works, why does it matter if it is made for?
 
I think there is a lot of overthinking going on for many golfers. I'm sure Fred Couples wasn't overthinking the ladies 3 wood he had in play on the PGA Tour for years.

Golf Central Blog




Prized possession: Freddie and his 'ladies' driver'



By

Randall Mell



RSS



%7B00BB958F-F8CD-4635-B072-5E3DC2DAC463%7Dcouples_hof13_presser_pointing_610.jpg





ST. AUGUSTINE, Fla. – Fred Couples used a “ladies’ driver” as his 3-wood for years in his PGA Tour career.
Couples told the story behind how a woman’s driver got into his bag during his World Golf Hall of Fame induction speech Monday night. He found it in Tom Watson’s garage.
We’ll let Couples tell it in his own distinctive story-telling style:
“I asked Tom Watson, a long time ago, on an off week, can I go stay with you at your house and learn a little bit? He says, `Sure, come on.’ So, sure enough, I fly into Kansas City. I'm thinking, `We're going to hit balls for five hours a day for five days, and I'm going to ask him how he makes all these putts.’ First day we made bullets for rifles. The second day we fished, which I don't even know how to fish. The third day, we shot skeet. I never hit a clay pigeon, or a bird, or a rabbit, or anything. And so the last day, we're in his garage, and I didn't really need to pack my bag because I never unpacked my clubs, but I found a 3-wood, which was a ladies' driver, in his garage, and I'm looking at this thing, and I said, `Can I take this?' He goes, `Yeah, it's Linda's, go ahead and have it.’ It's not a bad thing.
“But I took this thing, and I played in a lot of Presidents Cups with it. I played in a lot of Ryder Cups with it. And in about an hour, or whenever I finish this, you will see it in my trophy case next door. It's the 3-wood that I used for several years, which is like a mini-driver. But that maybe was better than getting five hours of practice, that I got this driver, which I used for a 3-wood.”






 
Yes its very good there are additional shaft choices, some now are offering upgrades free. A lot of this has occurred due to the fact that the average golfer is finding out that there is something better...or more choices over the stock offerings. Its all about $$$, and profit margin, however if golf club company X offer real deal shafts, then it puts pressure on others to offer it as well. As golfers we should demand higher quality, and to accomplish this real deal shafts need to be tested, or get in the hands of golfers that have never tried them

Canadan said:
My first guess would be the "Club" part of "Club Clash"

...and for what it's worth, I've been to lots of THP events where entire staff bags worth of shafts were available to hit, and there wasn't much time spent searching. Most people focused on hitting all the different companies with their stock offerings -- Probably because these companies are pairing shafts that work for most golfers.

You must be really pleased to see companies offer so many shafts at no upcharge this year. Great idea.
Click to expand...
 
ProZoneGolf said:
I don't...its just a issue of quality, and I would prefer the buyer not to walk out with the OEM club/shaft, IMO its better to upgrade to a real deal shaft with a special order from the OEM for not that much more money, the only problem with this is the customer will have to wait 1-2 weeks for delivery.
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Why not get fit and order the shaft the works best for said golfer and disregard the colour, name, company, flex, etc?

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Real Deal Tour Shafts Vs OEM Made For...Can you tell the difference...How?

ProZoneGolf said:
Many could debate this...so why do they make them look identical to shafts that are worth $300 - $1000 real deal shafts ? I suspect your drinking the Kool Aide...
Click to expand...

This is pretty funny. But before throwing accusations around, let's remember who's business is doing what.

We work with every shaft company under the sun and are partnered with most. Host events with them and brought THPers to create and roll their own shafts.

Instead of throwing "suspicions" or "accusations" a productive conservation can be had.
 
ProZoneGolf said:
Yes its very good there are additional shaft choices, some now are offering upgrades free. A lot of this has occurred due to the fact that the average golfer is finding out that there is something better...or more choices over the stock offerings. Its all about $$$, and profit margin, however if golf club company X offer real deal shafts, then it puts pressure on others to offer it as well. As golfers we should demand higher quality, and to accomplish this real deal shafts need to be tested, or get in the hands of golfers that have never tried them
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It's not a matter of "if" at all. Check out half the major OEMs and you're going to see a wide variety of no-charge upgrades. Plus other upgrades for the more exotic stuff.

And to that point, I think the demographic you're seeking out (aka the 'knowledgeable' golfer) is smart enough to hit eBay with a bit of patience if they really want the perfect shaft for them for a discount. I've found plenty of sub 100 dollar shafts that ought to cost 300. A bit of patience is an amazing thing. No fancy OEM graphics on them either.
 
Interesting, I dont know if I would call it a conversation tonight, but for the lack of a better word, conversation.
 
I think of shaft testing in the same sense as wine tasting. If I go wine tasting I will of course tell the difference between white, red, producers, etc but there will be subtle differences that an amateur taster like me won't be able to distinguish. When testing shafts there will be differences between manufacturers, weights, etc but the differences between a oem made for shaft and tour shaft won't be noticed by 95% of the population.
 
ProZoneGolf said:
So why not compare made for watered down shafts Vs real deals at your club clash?...

No where did I say THP testers reviewers are leaches (your words)... I said 'I suspect they are drinking Kool Aid'... this is simply means they are believing what they are told, in relation that OEM made for shafts are the same as real deal aftermarket ones. I don't believe this for a second....do you?
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First it's not my club clash, it's something THP is putting on to bring real results from golfers across a broad spectrum of handicaps.


Second- you did post this about "leaching reviewers" and since you are posting on THP it's not a stretch to figure out you were including the reviewers here.


ProZoneGolf said:
I think we should demand clearer differentiation between made for watered down versions Vs Real Deal. This has to come for leaders/reviewers in the industry, IMO...who 'I believe' have been taking a blind eye and siding with OEM's regarding this topic. How can you take a honest review from some one who has been paid of by OEM's with cash or freebies? Do many reviewers 'leach up' to OEM's just to get free stuff? - YES! - if so can you take the review seriously?


If you brought a knock off watch, bag etc would you be upset?, after all it looks the same...right???
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Third -. Do i believe it's the $300 aftermarket shaft? Of course not because the sale price isn't commiserate with what a real deal shaft would cost paired with the driver head. Do I know a made for shaft is different than a real deal shaft? Of course I do, but I don't believe for a minute that anyone believes the OEM shaft offerings are sub par, watered down or in any way inferior to the Real Deal shaft
 
KEV said:
I think of shaft testing in the same sense as wine tasting. If I go wine tasting I will of course tell the difference between white, red, producers, etc but there will be subtle differences that an amateur taster like me won't be able to distinguish. When testing shafts there will be differences between manufacturers, weights, etc but the differences between a oem made for shaft and tour shaft won't be noticed by 95% of the population.
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pretty good analogy dude.
 
" That girl is poisssonnnnnn"


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Here is a made for OEM shaft. 2015 Aldila Rogue i/o 70x. Do you think a real deal one would do this?...no they would have a lot better radial consistency. This is why your shaft flex and flights change by rotating the shaft in the sleeve. This is a type 1 shaft or 1 spine, and its very dominant. Real deal shafts have more layers of material and are made with higher quality materials, all layered better to make a shaft that is round, or radial consistent. About a month ago my buddy snapped his made for shaft Rogue/Cally 816 4w at the tip just by a divot...they replaced it. Many OEM made for shaft I cant even test in my roller bearing spine finder as they crack then snap, its the flex pressure right on the roller bearing contact, never happens with real deal shafts
I agree with some if it works don't mess with it, if it does not, perhaps you should upgrade to the real deal while you can, and still have the receipt handy

 
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