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Should Courses Enact a HC Check on Tees

dduarte85

dduarte85

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I love golf, period. I love people playing the game, enjoying their time, and learning and progressing as players. However, pace of play remains my biggest pet peeve. I can’t stand a 5 hour tilt. The one thing I’ve noticed is how many guys tee up off the blues when they have no business being there. I you can’t crack 90 why are you back there? When I played Ballybunion in Ireland they checked my USGA GHIN , which was a 6 at the time, and forced me to play the whites. I checked the ego and had a blast! Should we enact the same policies here to increase pace of play?
 
Although I don’t think it would be well received, they should do something about pace, I’m just not sure this is the answer.
 
I just don’t know why if someone hits driver 230 they’re playing tees at 6900 yards. The game is hard enough.
 
I think it's partially related to self esteem or lack of it. For some it is hard to play blue or red tees, regardless of their skill. I always choose red tees, it helps a lot as I just started golf. Added bonus, I get to play with women *grin*
 
I have been to a number of courses here in the UK that will not let you play off certain tees if your handicap isn't low enough (and even courses that won't let you play if your handicap isn't low enough) but it is mostly done to ensure that any visitors to the course enjoy it, especially if it is considered a tough course

There is no point me looking at a course that Jen couldn't get around as a beginner as she just wouldn't enjoy it

Having said that, even playing from the 'correct' tees regardless of handicap/ability will not ensure that the pace of play is improved, slow players will always be slow players regardless
 
I don't have a HC. Guess I can't play.
 
I don’t think it’s a good idea for a couple reasons. 1. It would not be well recurved and would drive people away from the game 2. I don’t think playing wrong tee is the problem.

I see people playing the right tee playing slow. It’s about playing ready golf and not going to each other’s ball to watch each other hit. Or telling a long story when someone is trying to putt. Or lining up a putt from four sides only to slam it past the hole and repeat the process. I see less and less people playing the tips these days.
 
While I feel your pain, I'm not sure how much it would help.

A large number of golfers have vanity caps. That guy that claims he's a 6, he's going to play from the blues and shoot 94.

Additionally, most of the golfers who I see that "have no business playing back there" are struggling so much that simply moving up a tee box wouldn't save but a couple strokes. When you're duffing 30 feet off the tee and hitting it 45-degrees left and right, starting 20 yards further up really isn't going to make it that much better.

However, I'm right there with you that it's frustrating to watch. Golf is hard enough. Make it as easy on yourself as possible.
 
dduarte85 said:
Should we enact the same policies here to increase pace of play?
Click to expand...

If nothing else, we need to educate people on which tees to play in order to allow them to score better according to whatever skill level they possess or lack, which in turn would help the pace of play especially when the course is busy
 
I dont think it is the majority of golfers that cause pace of play problems. I think it is a small minority, the main problem is that once that group gets on the course they back up everyone else behind them. A 4some of folks shooting 90-100 is going to take 4-1/2-5 hours and everyone behind them will take that long as well. It is what it is. I think people would enjoy golf more if they just stopped worrying about it. There is no fix and it isn't going away. When you get out and play a 3 hour round consider it a deviation from the norm instead and consider the 5 hour round normal.

Also any public course worth playing will be crowded. Its either going to be priced cheap and have a lot of players or it's going to be really nice and have a lot of players. If it's not crowded it's probably closed. So if you're not a member anywhere just bank on slow rounds.
 
I think there are other things courses/marshalls can do to improve pace of play before they start checking hdcp for tees

Maybe some of the extreme courses like a Bethpage Black or something
 
DataDude said:
A 4some of folks shooting 90-100 is going to take 4-1/2-5 hours
Click to expand...

Score wise that would describe the foursome I play with each and every week, except that we always finish in 3 1/2 hours. But we play from the mid tees and not from the tips, The only time it takes us longer than 3 1/2 hours is when others ahead of us slow us down.
 
Someone playing the wrong tees can effect pace of play, if they let it. That being said, I think a policy of telling people how to enjoy the game based on handicap is not going to be well received and might impact the experience in a negative way for some. I like the idea, though.
 
Agree with others that this would not fix the slow pace issue. Having marshalls police and enforce proper pace of play would be more likely to help.
 
Most of the slow play is on the greens or not playing ready golf. I played this weekend at a tough course with a 142 slope rating. The foursome ahead of us was fast off the tee and in the fairways but painfully slow when they got to the greens. I watched 3 of them remark and re-align their ball with the hole a couple times each on the first hole. Luckily they let us through on the second hole and we finished in 2:35 as a twosome. Also, my buddy who was playing is a 17 index and he played fast from the blue tees. I’m sure they were at least 90 minutes behind us.
 
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here we go again with ridiculous misguided logic. .
IMo its the biggest misguided logics about pace that there is. Of all the reason for a bad pace tee choice imo is at the very bottom of the list. People detrimentally slow will still be detrimentally slow regardless the tees. And people aware and courteous of pace will keep a respectable one regardless of tees. I get annoyed as i keep hearing this ridiculousness. I dont think its ridiculous to suggest people should play tees that better suit their game. But the pace of play problems are not due to tees but many other reasons. In fact I bet my house there is far more (not even close) people killing pace around and on the greens than there ever is due to playing the wrong tees. And fwiw many times that is coming from better players of the game. This topic irks me and honestly it "tee's" me off.lol But its true.

Not too often at all but through the years Ive had occasional times on my home courses where (due to maintenance) the tee box was closed and everyone had to play forward a set and the pace of play remains nearly exactly the same. In fact one of the times this has happened last year and it was actually the one the slowest rounds all season. Its ridiculous and imo it needs to stop. If courses forced me closer than I like to play because of my scores I honestly would leave the game.

You cannot force people to leave thier drivers and even 3woods out of thier bags just because thier handicap is higher. I just cant stand that mode of thinking. Tee choice can only be about ones capable distances for the better half of thier decently hit shots. Not thier rare longest ones but thier normal capable distance when hitting well enough. For very many people that will be long enough to play the tees they are on regardless the fact they may be shooting a 95.

Yes, playing longer can add some time to a persons game 'if" they have to take a whole lot more strokes. But that still does not at all have to be a pace problem. That does not mean they will go from not being a pace problem to then becoming one. Pace problem players are a pace problem regardless the tees (within reason of course). Sprying balls from tees will happen regardless which tee. not playing ready golf will happen regardless which tees, taking too much time on the greens will happen regardless which tees, a failure to move along with an awareness of pace will happen regardless of tees. Not caring at all about pace will happen regardless of tees. People who are problematically slow players will be problematic slow regardless of the darn tees.

Does anyone really believe that places which do not suffer alot of pace problems is because everyone is playing the 'correct' tees? I will guarantee that courses which dont suffer many pace issues have tons of players also not really playing the tees better suited to thier game. My county courses are not fast but not at all the problem many otyher places endure and we are filled with people on tees too long for thier game. Ive played private clubs that dont have pace problems at all that we have out on the public courses and i see the same exact thing as for people playing tees too long for them. This ideology imo is so overrated. I guarantee 100% that if any given course that suffers a real pace issue forced everyone up that you would find the problem would still exist just as poorly as it did before.

I play my courses in my muni from tees that are around 6400 to 6500. I can play the tips from the 7000. I dont play them because in ordeer to play them I need to be on my game with driver. And often enough Im not on it to the degree id like to be. And so i play one set up. I struggle mightely to stay under 90 and most my rounds are not under 90. I dont use driver of every hole because I am long enough where as i just dont need it on every hole. A number of legs I would risk hitting too long if I dont turn the ball and ill use a 5w or a 3w or even a 4h depending on thne hole, the wind, etc...on some of the holes. I have days where i am bad from the tees. Does that mean i should move up further another set? I could basically then leave my driver and my 3w and propbably my 5w in the car. But its basically telling me that im not allowed to use my driver. Its a bunch of crap. I can shoot an 85 and i can also shoot a 103 and anything in between. I can also play the back tee set if i really wanted and i have actually do/done it on some rarer occasions. Regardless which tee i play and regardless what i shoot that day, i have done it all in the same time frames and kept pace perfectly fine for whatever the pace that day was running. Even when faster than normal i can still play som,e of my worst golf while maintaining the faster than normal pace.

I really wish people would stop this nonsense in continuously thinking that the pace killer is all resting on tee choice as though its a dominant reason. Its really is not the issue. I agree 100% if someone can hit 220 yrds id agree they shouldnt play 7000 yrd course but that does not at all mean they will be a pace problem. The pace problem people are pace problems from any tee and most reasons for pace problem are other things and are much more the dominant reasons
 
I’m not saying it’s the one and only solution but it certainly wouldn’t hurt. It’s an institutional change and would take time to settle in. Of course people won’t enjoy being told what to do, it’s ego deflator. I personally find white tees harder to play as it creates choice off the tee. I’m a good driver of the ball so when I play the tips it makes me just driver. If I’m forward now the bunker comes into play, 5 iron or hybrid? Maybe a 3 wood or driver to try and cut the corner. I’ve found I actually enjoy having that choice off the tee.
 
rollin said:
here we go again with ridiculous misguided logic. .
IMo its the biggest misguided logics about pace that there is. Of all the reason for a bad pace tee choice imo is at the very bottom of the list. People detrimentally slow will still be detrimentally slow regardless the tees. And people aware and courteous of pace will keep a respectable one regardless of tees. I get annoyed as i keep hearing this ridiculousness. I dont think its ridiculous to suggest people should play tees that better suit their game. But the pace of play problems are not due to tees but many other reasons. In fact I bet my house there is far more (not even close) people killing pace around and on the greens than there ever is due to playing the wrong tees. And fwiw many times that is coming from better players of the game. This topic irks me and honestly it "tee's" me off.lol But its true.

Not too often at all but through the years Ive had occasional times on my home courses where (due to maintenance) the tee box was closed and everyone had to play forward a set and the pace of play remains nearly exactly the same. In fact one of the times this has happened last year and it was actually the one the slowest rounds all season. Its ridiculous and imo it needs to stop. If courses forced me closer than I like to play because of my scores I honestly would leave the game.

You cannot force people to leave thier drivers and even 3woods out of thier bags just because thier handicap is higher. I just cant stand that mode of thinking. Tee choice can only be about ones capable distances for the better half of thier decently hit shots. Not thier rare longest ones but thier normal capable distance when hitting well enough. For very many people that will be long enough to play the tees they are on regardless the fact they may be shooting a 95.

Yes, playing longer can add some time to a persons game 'if" they have to take a whole lot more strokes. But that still does not at all have to be a pace problem. That does not mean they will go from not being a pace problem to then becoming one. Pace problem players are a pace problem regardless the tees (within reason of course). Sprying balls from tees will happen regardless which tee. not playing ready golf will happen regardless which tees, taking too much time on the greens will happen regardless which tees, a failure to move along with an awareness of pace will happen regardless of tees. Not caring at all about pace will happen regardless of tees. People who are problematically slow players will be problematic slow regardless of the darn tees.

Does anyone really believe that places which do not suffer alot of pace problems is because everyone is playing the 'correct' tees? I will guarantee that courses which dont suffer many pace issues have tons of players also not really playing the tees better suited to thier game. My county courses are not fast but not at all the problem many otyher places endure and we are filled with people on tees too long for thier game. Ive played private clubs that dont have pace problems at all that we have out on the public courses and i see the same exact thing as for people playing tees too long for them. This ideology imo is so overrated. I guarantee 100% that if any given course that suffers a real pace issue forced everyone up that you would find the problem would still exist just as poorly as it did before.

I play my courses in my muni from tees that are around 6400 to 6500. I can play the tips from the 7000. I dont play them because in ordeer to play them I need to be on my game with driver. And often enough Im not on it to the degree id like to be. And so i play one set up. I struggle mightely to stay under 90 and most my rounds are not under 90. I dont use driver of every hole because I am long enough where as i just dont need it on every hole. A number of legs I would risk hitting too long if I dont turn the ball and ill use a 5w or a 3w or even a 4h depending on thne hole, the wind, etc...on some of the holes. I have days where i am bad from the tees. Does that mean i should move up further another set? I could basically then leave my driver and my 3w and propbably my 5w in the car. But its basically telling me that im not allowed to use my driver. Its a bunch of crap. I can shoot an 85 and i can also shoot a 103 and anything in between. I can also play the back tee set if i really wanted and i have actually do/done it on some rarer occasions. Regardless which tee i play and regardless what i shoot that day, i have done it all in the same time frames and kept pace perfectly fine for whatever the pace that day was running. Even when faster than normal i can still play som,e of my worst golf while maintaining the faster than normal pace.

I really wish people would stop this nonsense in continuously thinking that the pace killer is all resting on tee choice as though its a dominant reason. Its really is not the issue. I agree 100% if someone can hit 220 yrds id agree they shouldnt play 7000 yrd course but that does not at all mean they will be a pace problem. The pace problem people are pace problems from any tee and most reasons for pace problem are other things and are much more the dominant reasons
Click to expand...

Man that was a long response.
 
dduarte85 said:
I’m not saying it’s the one and only solution but it certainly wouldn’t hurt. It’s an institutional change and would take time to settle in. Of course people won’t enjoy being told what to do, it’s ego deflator. I personally find white tees harder to play as it creates choice off the tee. I’m a good driver of the ball so when I play the tips it makes me just driver. If I’m forward now the bunker comes into play, 5 iron or hybrid? Maybe a 3 wood or driver to try and cut the corner. I’ve found I actually enjoy having that choice off the tee.
Click to expand...

dduarte85 said:
Man that was a long response.
Click to expand...

haha..sorry. But i just get tired of hearing how everyone has figured out that the the reason for a 5 hr round is due to tee choice. The biggest reasons for pace are tee time intervals, secondly is course layout, then of coourse its about ready golf, pace awareness, greens play, and things like ball searching and just really an outright care and awareness of the pace one is playing by.
 
rollin said:
haha..sorry. But i just get tired of hearing how everyone has figured out that the the reason for a 5 hr round is due to tee choice. The biggest reasons for pace are tee time intervals, secondly is course layout, then of coourse its about ready golf, pace awareness, greens play, and things like ball searching and just really an outright care and awareness of the pace one is playing by.
Click to expand...
It’s been a recent thing where I’ve played some tough tracks and I’ve seen people teeing off at the back and I just can’t figure out why a 20 handicap is torturing himself. It’s obviously so many issues but since the round starts on the tee I figure why not, it kind of works in Europe?
 
Being aware of your skill is key to this. I recently introduced a few friends to the game and although I've come a long way in this past year of lowering my handicap from the low 20's down to a 12-ish we still tee it up from the reds to allow these guys to learn and not clog up the play behind us. Plus it's nice to take the time to play a hole differently than I would have, at some courses it changes the dynamic completely.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 
for me, playing the right set of tees is so much more about enjoying the round and being competitive (if you're into that) than it is playing quickly. the slow guys are taking 17 practice swings, looking for lost balls, not playing ready golf, chatting it up instead of hitting/putting, and taking way too long around the greens. the only part of those issues that may be ameliorated by moving up a set (or three) of tees COULD be looking for lost balls. but i think a poor shot will be a poor shot regardless of whether you're playing from 5,000y or 7,000y.

i don't have any quantifiable way to prove this, but in my mind if someone is hitting 2-3 more shots per hole because of playing the incorrect set of tees, that might add 30 minutes to the round. is a 4:30 round that much more acceptable than a 5:00 round? maybe the answer is yes.
 
rollin said:
here we go again with ridiculous misguided logic. .
Click to expand...

I’m not sure why you are writing this off as ridiculous and misguided. If the same golfer is taking 90 strokes off the white tees and 100 off the blue, how does that not equate to a slower pace of play. I think it’s pretty logical that more strokes equal more time when all other variables are the same (golfer, course, etc.)

Obviously other factors go into pace of play but it seems ridiculous to think a factor that results in more strokes is it the bottom of the list.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
BuckNasty said:
I’m not sure why you are writing this off as ridiculous and misguided. If the same golfer is taking 90 strokes off the white tees and 100 off the blue, how does that not equate to a slower pace of play. I think it’s pretty logical that more strokes equal more time when all other variables are the same (golfer, course, etc.)

Obviously other factors go into pace of play but it seems ridiculous to think a factor that results in more strokes is it the bottom of the list.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

10 strokes over 18 holes is nothing
 
BuckNasty said:
I’m not sure why you are writing this off as ridiculous and misguided. If the same golfer is taking 90 strokes off the white tees and 100 off the blue, how does that not equate to a slower pace of play. I think it’s pretty logical that more strokes equal more time when all other variables are the same (golfer, course, etc.)

Obviously other factors go into pace of play but it seems ridiculous to think a factor that results in more strokes is it the bottom of the list.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

objectively i agree, more strokes will always equal more time. but i don't think people are walking off golf courses over a pace of play that is excessive by 10-15 minutes; i think it's the 5-hour round when people feel golf should be played in 3.5-4 hours. those extra 10 strokes don't account for the 60-90 minutes of excessive pace, there are other behaviors (or lack thereof) that lead to this.
 
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