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Do away with yardage indicators of all types, basically?

I remember pacing off yardages from sprinkler heads and it was a pain in the rear. I wouldn't seriously consider not playing anymore if we couldn't use DMDs, but it would make golf much more frustrating. My distance judgment is terrible; I guessed a distance of 85 yards today before I lasered it at 116. It's a good thing that I brought extra clubs to the other fairway with me.
 
brianmk24 said:
I remember pacing off yardages from sprinkler heads and it was a pain in the rear. I wouldn't seriously consider not playing anymore if we couldn't use DMDs, but it would make golf much more frustrating. My distance judgment is terrible; I guessed a distance of 85 yards today before I lasered it at 116. It's a good thing that I brought extra clubs to the other fairway with me.
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I’ll trade in everything for a set of persimmon clubs and a balata ball.

This is a horrible idea - because pace of play isn’t slow anyways
 
OITW said:
I’ll trade in everything for a set of persimmon clubs and a balata ball.

This is a horrible idea - because pace of play isn’t slow anyways
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Exactly..I get nervous enough already because I think that I'm holding everything up.
 
I wouldn't want to live on a golf course behind a green anytime soon if this was put into affect.. I agree with the greens books, but this may be a little more than the game could handle.
 
Snickerdog said:
Never said it was unfair to allow rangefinders. That is fine for everyday play and casual play. In tourney play you should be able to use the sprinkler heads and fairway makers. If you are in a tourney you are probably good enough to pace off a few yards.
Someone earlier said something about pacing off 50 yards, I have never been on a course where a marker or sprinkler head was that far apart that you would have to do that.
I play with a guy who is generally with in 1-2 yards of what my rangefinder says when he paces it off. He can just "see" it.
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Plenty of old courses only have 100,150,200 stakes so 50 would be a normal distance to pace from the pin to a ball short of the green.
 
ntanygd760 said:
Plenty of old courses only have 100,150,200 stakes so 50 would be a normal distance to pace from the pin to a ball short of the green.
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For a lot of the courses around here, that’s basically what you can expect. A lot of early/mid 1900s courses. I’d say outside of the really expensive daily fee places yardages on sprinkler heads is not something I expect.
 
I always had an advantage over my buddies prior to rangefinders and GPS. I am a mathematician so I was always very good at approximating yardage based on the markers and my angle from them and the green. My friends overcooked and undercooked a lot of shots by not being as good at such things. I would go back to it in a heartbeat, but sadly this genie is already out of the bottle. I always thought I would have made a good caddie. I like playing second fiddle, I'm good at distance stuff, I have a quick wit, I am supportive, but not empathetic at all (I wouldn't feel their pressure).
 
DG_1234 said:
Why do you write "judging distances" ? Golf courses have always provided yardage distances, whether it be on the scorecard, posts or bushes alongside fairways, sprinkler heads etc... There is no "judgement of a 150 yard distance". 150 yards is 150 yards.
As for "purists" making a claim laser rangefinders slow the speed of play, the fact is that in the "pre laser days" players had the (time consuming) habit of counting their paces to find yardages.
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You must be relatively young if you think all of that always existed. :wink:

You can look up old scorecards and the only yardage indications were the length of the hole from the tee boxes. There were no yardages on sprinkler heads. If you were lucky there might be stakes at other yardages than the 150 marker, maybe 100 or 200 as well, but not always. There were no yardage books until Dean Beman started walking stuff off and making notes on a scorecard in 1954. He also started walking off distances from the front of the green to the pin before each round as there were no pin sheets either. The concept of some type of yardage book or aid in assisting with getting precise yardages didn't become popular until Beman convinced Jack Nicklaus in 1961 to do what he, Beman, had been doing for several years. If you needed to know what the carry was over a bunker or creek, or the distance to lay up, or the exact yardage to the pin that was something one had to "judge". So prior to Beman starting something in 1954 all golfers had to "judge" their own distances and those better at that "skill" were rewarded.
 
For the first few years I played I only used the yardage stakes and guessed the yardage, no walking out off either. I've wondered a few different times what would happen if I tried playing like that again, I really don't know that my scores would be much different on my home course. New courses could be tough but it would be interesting to see.
 
ntanygd760 said:
Plenty of old courses only have 100,150,200 stakes so 50 would be a normal distance to pace from the pin to a ball short of the green.
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If you are inside of 100 yards from the green do you really need and exact distance to the pin? That should be a feel shot, you should be able to gauge that without to much problem.
 
Snickerdog said:
If you are inside of 100 yards from the green do you really need and exact distance to the pin? That should be a feel shot, you should be able to gauge that without to much problem.
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Exactly, but you still see people using their laser or GPS for those shots. "Feel" for the shot, prior to DMEs and all the other aids to getting exact yardage, used to be part of every shot.
 
ntanygd760 said:
Plenty of old courses only have 100,150,200 stakes so 50 would be a normal distance to pace from the pin to a ball short of the green.
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I'd go past that and say that I've noticed courses that had yardages on sprinkler heads before, opting for ones without when they replace them. I can only assume the progress of technology makes some think that these are no longer necessary, since most if not all golfers have at least a smartphone with a GPS app in them.

I agree consumer GPS isn't great for measuring exact distances. I wear a watch and use it for distances to hazards, etc. off the tee. I also have a laser for exact distances, though I generally only use that if I've got a green light to go pin hunting. I feel like I've got a pretty good read on distance as long as the course gives me the basics in 100/150/20, 250 is nice for par 5s. Enough so that I could get on without measuring tech if it outlawed all the sudden, but I feel like it would definitely slow me down on good pace days. If everything's moving and I'm not waiting, pacing off yardages would definitely slow me down if I were riding in a cart. Walking, you can usually mitigate most of that by paying attention to markers and pacing as you move towards the ball.

Overall I think it would slow the game down though. With the example the tour sets, we've already got enough people pacing off putts and reading from 27 angles, that golf is slow enough.
 
Snickerdog said:
If you are inside of 100 yards from the green do you really need and exact distance to the pin? That should be a feel shot, you should be able to gauge that without to much problem.
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watching numerous people with handicaps higher than yours "feel" shot their way 40 yards short or 60 yards wrong...your statement would better read ""that should be a lasered shot, you should know how far your are trying to hit it"
 
Snickerdog said:
If you are inside of 100 yards from the green do you really need and exact distance to the pin? That should be a feel shot, you should be able to gauge that without to much problem.
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I look at it differently. I am actually good enough to hit the ball 37 yards give or take 2 so I want to know the exact yardage.. Now 150 or 147 or 154 isn't as imprtant as I am not able to hit +/- 2 yards from 150 but from 40 yards I can.
 
Phil75070 said:
Since the USGA has limited the information that can be used for green reading as the ability of golfers to read greens using their own judgment is an essential skill that should be maintained should the same principal be applied to gauging yardages? Should there be no use of DMEs, very limited info in yardage books if they can even be used at all, no distances on sprinkler heads and maybe just go back to 150/200 yard markers, stakes or small bushes placed on either side of the fairway like in the "old days"? Should both the ability to read greens and the ability to gauge distances both be considered "essential skills"? If so why and if not why. Interested in opinions.
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I think there should be MORE indicators. I bet it would speed up play a bit.
 
ntanygd760 said:
I look at it differently. I am actually good enough to hit the ball 37 yards give or take 2 so I want to know the exact yardage.. Now 150 or 147 or 154 isn't as imprtant as I am not able to hit +/- 2 yards from 150 but from 40 yards I can.
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A friend of mine is a teaching pro and he regularly shoots 3, 4, 5 under par golf. Last month I was near his golf ball , which lay about 50 yards from the green, and he asked me for a yardage.
After that hole I asked him why he wanted a yardage from about 50 yards, and wasn't that a "feel shot"? He replied that he likes exact yardages from 58, 39, even less than 30 yards. He actually knows/feels swings for specific carry yardages. I can attest that this works for him as it is rare that a shot he plays from inside 100 yards does not end up within about 15 feet of the hole. He carries 4 wedges, 46* 52*, 58* and 64*.Not my style but it works great for him.
 
darthweasel said:
watching numerous people with handicaps higher than yours "feel" shot their way 40 yards short or 60 yards wrong...your statement would better read ""that should be a lasered shot, you should know how far your are trying to hit it"
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I won't be on the money every time either, but I am going to get it close. I would not expect a double digit HC to be able to get really close (inside of 10 feet) even knowing the precise distance. Now if that is the one area of his game that is his strength then that is different, maybe his HC is because of the driver and he has excellent short game. ( I have seen this)

I hope that made sense as that is how I am reading your reply.
 
Snickerdog said:
I won't be on the money every time either, but I am going to get it close. I would not expect a double digit HC to be able to get really close (inside of 10 feet) even knowing the precise distance. Now if that is the one area of his game that is his strength then that is different, maybe his HC is because of the driver and he has excellent short game. ( I have seen this)

I hope that made sense as that is how I am reading your reply.
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Though it actually does happen sometimes it doesn't have to be about getting inside 10 feet. Its just about knowing the right club to pull. I mean for me personally I dotn need exact and my watch rang finder is more than sufficient. A couple few yrds Im not concerned with. But I don't want to pull 7i when I should have pulled 8 for a rear pin and then end up ovr/off the back and down the hill. Or (the opposite thing) I may have to carry a front bunker and again want the right club. Imo it doesn't matter if mid and higher cappers are more inconsistent as many people whould imply that means they don't have the need to know. The need to know exact (if someone wants to) is just as legit for a low cap is a high one imo. That said I don't feel I need it but I do want to know within a few yards or at least within about one half club gap at most and a range finder will do that just swell .

I find lasers a pain in the butt and a time consumer. I see them all the time of course like many you do or even have one. In my experience its never just a 3 second thing. Taking it out, viewing and then placing it back away becomes more like a 10 second thing and sometimes longer. Unfortunately a lot of folks don't take care of this while others are hitting. If someone shoots 80 (strokes) that can add 13 pus minutes to a round. Now consider if there are 2 or 3 in a group who use them and imo this can easily add 20 minutes or more to an entire round. And that is considering 80 strokes per. I seen plenty folks be just only a few yards next to another player and know the yardage from the other player and still they for some reason just have to pull out theirs and check anyway.....just mind boggling if you ask me. But anyway the rangefinder watch? now there is a an actual real one second or less glance and your done. Just my thoughts :)
 
rollin said:
I find lasers a pain in the butt and a time consumer. I see them all the time of course like many you do or even have one. In my experience its never just a 3 second thing. Taking it out, viewing and then placing it back away becomes more like a 10 second thing and sometimes longer. Unfortunately a lot of folks don't take care of this while others are hitting. If someone shoots 80 (strokes) that can add 13 pus minutes to a round. Now consider if there are 2 or 3 in a group who use them and imo this can easily add 20 minutes or more to an entire round. And that is considering 80 strokes per. I seen plenty folks be just only a few yards next to another player and know the yardage from the other player and still they for some reason just have to pull out theirs and check anyway.....just mind boggling if you ask me. But anyway the rangefinder watch? now there is a an actual real one second or less glance and your done. Just my thoughts :)
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Completely disagree. I've only been without a laser rangefinder a handful of times in my last 1500 rounds of golf and my rangefinder allows me to play faster. I played today and walked as a threesome and we all used rangefinders and played ready golf. We finished in 2:50. I've owned lots of different GPS devices and they are often off by 5-10 yards. For some of us those 5-10 yards matter.
 
rollin said:
Though it actually does happen sometimes it doesn't have to be about getting inside 10 feet. Its just about knowing the right club to pull. I mean for me personally I dotn need exact and my watch rang finder is more than sufficient. A couple few yrds Im not concerned with. But I don't want to pull 7i when I should have pulled 8 for a rear pin and then end up ovr/off the back and down the hill. Or (the opposite thing) I may have to carry a front bunker and again want the right club. Imo it doesn't matter if mid and higher cappers are more inconsistent as many people whould imply that means they don't have the need to know. The need to know exact (if someone wants to) is just as legit for a low cap is a high one imo. That said I don't feel I need it but I do want to know within a few yards or at least within about one half club gap at most and a range finder will do that just swell .

I find lasers a pain in the butt and a time consumer. I see them all the time of course like many you do or even have one. In my experience its never just a 3 second thing. Taking it out, viewing and then placing it back away becomes more like a 10 second thing and sometimes longer. Unfortunately a lot of folks don't take care of this while others are hitting. If someone shoots 80 (strokes) that can add 13 pus minutes to a round. Now consider if there are 2 or 3 in a group who use them and imo this can easily add 20 minutes or more to an entire round. And that is considering 80 strokes per. I seen plenty folks be just only a few yards next to another player and know the yardage from the other player and still they for some reason just have to pull out theirs and check anyway.....just mind boggling if you ask me. But anyway the rangefinder watch? now there is a an actual real one second or less glance and your done. Just my thoughts :)
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I dunno. I don't think anyone is shooting laser distance for all 80 (or whatever number) of their strokes during a round. I mean, seriously, who lasers their putts? Who lasers their tee shots on par 4's and 5's? Who lasers their shots from just off the green? All those easily account for 50+ strokes during a round. So, let's think about 30 shots being lasered (and I think that's still a generous estimate). Even if we count 15 seconds, we're only talking about 7.5 minutes. It's not really that big of a deal honestly.
 
As for it not being important for a mid-high handicapper, I'm a ~13.5 now and playing to a solid 20 (ok, maybe a little lower than that). I have been using my GolfPadGPS app for distances and while it's close enough for somethings, it's making me wonder sometimes when I come up just short or carry it just a few yards too far. I mean, I'm fine with it being only 3 or 4 yards off. I'm not sure 3 or 4 yards is going to make that much difference. The problem is, if I don't know if it's 3-4 long or 3-4 short, I'm now up to an ~8 yard error. That's significant especially when you start into the short irons and wedges. I might try to snag a range finder before next spring. I don't think I'd use it often, but I'd use it often between 40-170.
 
OGputtnfool said:
I dunno. I don't think anyone is shooting laser distance for all 80 (or whatever number) of their strokes during a round. I mean, seriously, who lasers their putts? Who lasers their tee shots on par 4's and 5's? Who lasers their shots from just off the green? All those easily account for 50+ strokes during a round. So, let's think about 30 shots being lasered (and I think that's still a generous estimate). Even if we count 15 seconds, we're only talking about 7.5 minutes. It's not really that big of a deal honestly.
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thats a good point to bring up.. I didnt think about all those non laser shots
 
tahoebum said:
Completely disagree. I've only been without a laser rangefinder a handful of times in my last 1500 rounds of golf and my rangefinder allows me to play faster. I played today and walked as a threesome and we all used rangefinders and played ready golf. We finished in 2:50. I've owned lots of different GPS devices and they are often off by 5-10 yards. For some of us those 5-10 yards matter.
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As OG pointed out....I didnt realize to consider thats its not all shots that are lasered. So my guestimate as for time used would been wrong. But it would still add noticeable time especially if all players are using it. But like everything else when it comes to pace......as for the lasers....those who are fast and know how to move efficiently will still manage to do so regardless and those who are problematic will just be more problematic.
 
OGputtnfool said:
As for it not being important for a mid-high handicapper, I'm a ~13.5 now and playing to a solid 20 (ok, maybe a little lower than that). I have been using my GolfPadGPS app for distances and while it's close enough for somethings, it's making me wonder sometimes when I come up just short or carry it just a few yards too far. I mean, I'm fine with it being only 3 or 4 yards off. I'm not sure 3 or 4 yards is going to make that much difference. The problem is, if I don't know if it's 3-4 long or 3-4 short, I'm now up to an ~8 yard error. That's significant especially when you start into the short irons and wedges. I might try to snag a range finder before next spring. I don't think I'd use it often, but I'd use it often between 40-170.
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mishitting balls which is something many mid and higher cappers usually do more often than low cappers of course....but is not imo relevant when it comes to determining just who may have any more or less justification for wanting to know yardage. Honestly....if anyone is a 9iron out and chunks one 15 feet then it didnt matter what club he used nor what the yardage was. Could have been a 3w or a LW it wouldnt had mattered. But that isnt the point nor relevant to wanting to know yardage and selecting the right club. In fact as a mid/high capper I really hate when an approach is hit really well (something executed much less often than a low capper) ends up being the wrong club because yardage was not truly known. It means that much more to you when such shots are executed well less often as you could have had one the rarer better ones but lost out due to guessed yardage. Its klike a waste of one of the better executed shots which are further between to begin with.
 
rollin said:
mishitting balls which is something many mid and higher cappers usually do more often than low cappers of course....but is not imo relevant when it comes to determining just who may have any more or less justification for wanting to know yardage. Honestly....if anyone is a 9iron out and chunks one 15 feet then it didnt matter what club he used nor what the yardage was. Could have been a 3w or a LW it wouldnt had mattered. But that isnt the point nor relevant to wanting to know yardage and selecting the right club. In fact as a mid/high capper I really hate when an approach is hit really well (something executed much less often than a low capper) ends up being the wrong club because yardage was not truly known. It means that much more to you when such shots are executed well less often as you could have had one the rarer better ones but lost out due to guessed yardage. Its klike a waste of one of the better executed shots which are further between to begin with.
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When asked "what is the most common mistake you see amateurs make during pro-am's?"...........Tour pros usually reply "not selecting enough club".
Regarding slow play, I think swinging too little club, and coming up well short of the green all day long, is a significant cause of slow play.
Learning a yardage to the hole is only useful if the player has a reasonable sense for how far he/she carries each club.
 
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