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Do away with yardage indicators of all types, basically?

This is my first year. I am a 22.5 at this point. My GPS watch has helped me a lot. And I believe it speeds up play, for me at least, since I have a good idea of the yardage when I get to my ball, I know which club I will need and go about my business.

This past week, I popped in for a quick 9 at a new club. I didn't have my watch. It took longer because I was spending time estimating distances, and even longer still because I was off on those distances and ended up flying the green, or leaving it short, resulting in more shots.
 
No, I think that’s too much. If we want an anology, using a yardage book or having a 150 marker is like getting a pin sheet.
 
DG_1234 said:
When asked "what is the most common mistake you see amateurs make during pro-am's?"...........Tour pros usually reply "not selecting enough club".
Regarding slow play, I think swinging too little club, and coming up well short of the green all day long, is a significant cause of slow play.
Learning a yardage to the hole is only useful if the player has a reasonable sense for how far he/she carries each club.
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But alot of that notion I dont necessarily agree with because many amateurs mishit clubs. Mishitting a club does not mean the wrong club was selected. It just means it was mishit. I mishit left. right and short and not normally but sometimes long too. The long mishit honestly is usually the worst of the misses and the short miss is usually the safest one. Imo I feel you play the club that gets you to the desired distance with a normal well struck shot. Not the best one ever but just a normal well struck ball because thats the club that imo is correct for the yardage. So many of the short mises are really just poorer strikes and not really a telling sign that the person is always selecting the wrong club.
 
At course' around me my biggest gripe is not having enough yardage markers, even the most basic 200/150/100 are sometimes absent. I rather see the colored stakes vs. fairway sprinkler heads/round markers. In a perfect world you could do away with all on course markers and just have GPS' in all the carts at every course. I use my Bushnell every round, but do enjoy having a GPS in cart for easy yardage numbers.
On the topic of slow play, most casual golfers have no idea how far the majority of there clubs truly go and mis-judge how far they are from point X. That IMO is a huge reason why slow play happens.
 
choppstixxx said:
At course' around me my biggest gripe is not having enough yardage markers, even the most basic 200/150/100 are sometimes absent. I rather see the colored stakes vs. fairway sprinkler heads/round markers. In a perfect world you could do away with all on course markers and just have GPS' in all the carts at every course. I use my Bushnell every round, but do enjoy having a GPS in cart for easy yardage numbers.
On the topic of slow play, most casual golfers have no idea how far the majority of there clubs truly go and mis-judge how far they are from point X. That IMO is a huge reason why slow play happens.
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yea i think many courses no longer keep the stake markers (usually red/wht/blu for the 100/150/200). Honestly they were great to have imo.
 
rollin said:
But alot of that notion I dont necessarily agree with because many amateurs mishit clubs. Mishitting a club does not mean the wrong club was selected. It just means it was mishit. I mishit left. right and short and not normally but sometimes long too. The long mishit honestly is usually the worst of the misses and the short miss is usually the safest one. Imo I feel you play the club that gets you to the desired distance with a normal well struck shot. Not the best one ever but just a normal well struck ball because thats the club that imo is correct for the yardage. So many of the short mises are really just poorer strikes and not really a telling sign that the person is always selecting the wrong club.
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A major factor of good golf is a player having awareness (and a realistic perspective) of his/her shot tendencies.
Most amateurs consistently mishit shots so the most sensible way for them to select a club is to expect a mishit. For example, if a player's purely struck 7-iron carries 150 yards, but he only strikes his 7-iron pure 2 or 3 out of 10 times, then it does not make good sense to select 7-iron from 150 yards. That player would hit more greens (and improve pace of play) if he selected 6-iron or 5-iron from 150 yards.
 
rollin said:
yea i think many courses no longer keep the stake markers (usually red/wht/blu for the 100/150/200). Honestly they were great to have imo.
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I def. prefer the stake markers, easy to spot and at least to give you an idea of how far you are. Specially helpful if it's cart path only, which around my parts happens a lot during the spring/fall months.
I always thought it would be cool to have digital boards on each hole that displayed all the up to date yardages for each tee color/flag placement. That way you could keep them up to date each day from the club house.
Anything to help with slow play is the best to grow the game as time goes on.
 
rollin said:
thats a good point to bring up.. I didnt think about all those non laser shots
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I laser at most 18 shots per round on a familiar course. It takes me no more than 5 seconds to do so which makes for 90 seconds per round to get all my yardages. Before laser rangefinders I was pacing off distances from sprinkler heads or markers and I estimate that took me at least 10-12 minutes each round.
 
tahoebum said:
I laser at most 18 shots per round on a familiar course. It takes me no more than 5 seconds to do so which makes for 90 seconds per round to get all my yardages. Before laser rangefinders I was pacing off distances from sprinkler heads or markers and I estimate that took me at least 10-12 minutes each round.
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I don't want to go back to the days of pacing off yardages.
 
I'm terrible at estimating yardages with the naked eye. Like, there's a pretty good chance I'll be off by 30 yards or more. What do you think would impact pace of play more, checking the yardage on an app on my phone, or thinking it's 170 yards away when it's 140, hitting an easy 5 instead of a hard 9 iron and launching an approach into the next tee box?

The removal of use of slope books doesn't change the fundamental use of the putter on the putting surface. Removal of yardage assistance does impact what club to use on approach to the greens.
 
I do not believe there should be any restriction on the use of DME. Some people can’t judge distances, so then we’d just have to say fine, take up bowling. Can’t do math to subtract 23 paces from the 150 stake, or calc 23 steps against a 30” stride, take up checkers. Would seem very counter productive to growing or expanding the game.

As to its effect on slow play, wasn’t asked by OP so don’t care. Seems sometimes we get far off the subject at hand.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
DG_1234 said:
A major factor of good golf is a player having awareness (and a realistic perspective) of his/her shot tendencies.
Most amateurs consistently mishit shots so the most sensible way for them to select a club is to expect a mishit. For example, if a player's purely struck 7-iron carries 150 yards, but he only strikes his 7-iron pure 2 or 3 out of 10 times, then it does not make good sense to select 7-iron from 150 yards. That player would hit more greens (and improve pace of play) if he selected 6-iron or 5-iron from 150 yards.
Click to expand...

But there is a difference between pure vs well hit and well hit is what i refer to as a yardage gauge. The rarer times i really hit alot of real pure irons in a given round when the swing is really working very well are the days when Im long a lot of that day. When i say my 7i is 160/65 club that is what I use for that distance based on average well hit 7iron. On the rarer times I relly hit it pure Ill be 170 or even longer. But at 170 (or slightly longer) im pulling 6 (not 7). So again imo we should base it off our well struck shots. Not the purest ones, and not the poor mishit ones but just the well hit ones. The goal is to try to execute a good shot not a poor one. So good shots are what imo we should calculate from. Again....not our very best ones but our average good ones that result from the better half of our ball striking, not the worse half.
 
I dont use one at this time but I don't give a hoot if some else does.
 
rollin said:
But there is a difference between pure vs well hit and well hit is what i refer to as a yardage gauge. The rarer times i really hit alot of real pure irons in a given round when the swing is really working very well are the days when Im long a lot of that day. When i say my 7i is 160/65 club that is what I use for that distance based on average well hit 7iron. On the rarer times I relly hit it pure Ill be 170 or even longer. But at 170 (or slightly longer) im pulling 6 (not 7). So again imo we should base it off our well struck shots. Not the purest ones, and not the poor mishit ones but just the well hit ones. The goal is to try to execute a good shot not a poor one. So good shots are what imo we should calculate from. Again....not our very best ones but our average good ones that result from the better half of our ball striking, not the worse half.
Click to expand...

Again, a player being aware of what he has that day, including environmental conditions, is a major factor of good golf.
Early in the round a top player is getting a sense for his swing that day, the quality of his strikes, the weather temperature effect on his shots, whether his miss is left or right that day etc....
He moves around the course making adjustments, and choosing clubs, selecting lines of play etc.... based on his previous swings and shots that day.
For learning his club distances an amateur should make a dozen swings on the driving range with his 7-iron. Should he do this the results might be something like this :

1 ball carries 160
1 ball carries 155
1 ball carries 150
2 balls carry 145
5 balls carry 140
1 balls carries 135
1 balls carries 130

It is common for the above player to have in his mind, because he does on occasion carry his 7-iron 150 yards, to select that club when faced with a 150 yard shot. But the reality is that by playing 7-iron from 150 yards he will most often come up well short of the green.
Players who hit a lot of greens do so because they select the club based on their average carry distance, not their purely struck carry distance.
The top player's average is a well struck shot. The amateur who shoots bogey golf average shot is not well struck, it's a significant mishit which loses at least 10% carry yardage. So, to hit more greens in regulation the amateur should play 5 -iron or 6-iron for that 150 yard shot. When he does start swinging more club he will find that his usual mishit ends up on the green instead of well short of the green.
Besides hitting more greens in regulation, the other benefit (from getting in the habit of playing more club) is that this naturally breeds improved swing tempo and rhythm.
 
DG_1234 said:
A major factor of good golf is a player having awareness (and a realistic perspective) of his/her shot tendencies.
Most amateurs consistently mishit shots so the most sensible way for them to select a club is to expect a mishit. For example, if a player's purely struck 7-iron carries 150 yards, but he only strikes his 7-iron pure 2 or 3 out of 10 times, then it does not make good sense to select 7-iron from 150 yards. That player would hit more greens (and improve pace of play) if he selected 6-iron or 5-iron from 150 yards.
Click to expand...

I disagree. Let's go with the 7i/150 example. If, as you say, I only hit my 7i pure 3 times out of 10 (I'll use 3 for easy math) and I should select a 6i or 5i, I would ask, what happens on those other 7/10 shots? For me, I'd say, from experience, 4 of those 7 are likely chunked well short... like only going 10-15 yards. Two of those 7 are caught a little heavy and likely end up in the 125-130 range. The other shot is likely caught thin and either ends up long on the green or just over the back.

So, now, if I take a 6i and add 10 yards (just for an easy calculation). Now, 3 of my shots are going 160 yards and ending up back of the green or long, 2 of the shots are still coming up 10 yards or so short, the 4 shots that I chunked well short are... well, still well short because I chunked the **** out of them, and the one that I thinned is likely further off the back of the green.

I think you can see that it's not gonna help much to go to a 5i either. Bottom line, I think it still helps to know the distance you need to hit the ball. The one caveat to that is if you don't know your distances for your irons. If that's the case, then just go hit something because you obviously are just out there for fun anyway. :clown:
 
DG_1234 said:
Again, a player being aware of what he has that day, including environmental conditions, is a major factor of good golf.
Early in the round a top player is getting a sense for his swing that day, the quality of his strikes, the weather temperature effect on his shots, whether his miss is left or right that day etc....
He moves around the course making adjustments, and choosing clubs, selecting lines of play etc.... based on his previous swings and shots that day.
For learning his club distances an amateur should make a dozen swings on the driving range with his 7-iron. Should he do this the results might be something like this :

1 ball carries 160
1 ball carries 155
1 ball carries 150
2 balls carry 145
5 balls carry 140
1 balls carries 135
1 balls carries 130

It is common for the above player to have in his mind, because he does on occasion carry his 7-iron 150 yards, to select that club when faced with a 150 yard shot. But the reality is that by playing 7-iron from 150 yards he will most often come up well short of the green.
Players who hit a lot of greens do so because they select the club based on their average carry distance, not their purely struck carry distance.
The top player's average is a well struck shot. The amateur who shoots bogey golf average shot is not well struck, it's a significant mishit which loses at least 10% carry yardage. So, to hit more greens in regulation the amateur should play 5 -iron or 6-iron for that 150 yard shot. When he does start swinging more club he will find that his usual mishit ends up on the green instead of well short of the green.
Besides hitting more greens in regulation, the other benefit (from getting in the habit of playing more club) is that this naturally breeds improved swing tempo and rhythm.
Click to expand...

So, let me ask. If you were doing this exercise, or watching someone do this, before a round and your 7i shots carried:

120, 130, 20, 20, 20, 170, 175, 20, 20, 120, 20, 180,

what distance would you use for your 7i distance, or recommend they use, for that day?
 
Please don't campaign to take away my rangefinder. I will not be happy about it. I hate pacing off yardages from sprinkler heads, or guessing how far on to the green the pin is. Just shoot and go... much quicker.
 
OGputtnfool said:
I disagree. Let's go with the 7i/150 example. If, as you say, I only hit my 7i pure 3 times out of 10 (I'll use 3 for easy math) and I should select a 6i or 5i, I would ask, what happens on those other 7/10 shots? For me, I'd say, from experience, 4 of those 7 are likely chunked well short... like only going 10-15 yards. Two of those 7 are caught a little heavy and likely end up in the 125-130 range. The other shot is likely caught thin and either ends up long on the green or just over the back.

So, now, if I take a 6i and add 10 yards (just for an easy calculation). Now, 3 of my shots are going 160 yards and ending up back of the green or long, 2 of the shots are still coming up 10 yards or so short, the 4 shots that I chunked well short are... well, still well short because I chunked the **** out of them, and the one that I thinned is likely further off the back of the green.

I think you can see that it's not gonna help much to go to a 5i either. Bottom line, I think it still helps to know the distance you need to hit the ball. The one caveat to that is if you don't know your distances for your irons. If that's the case, then just go hit something because you obviously are just out there for fun anyway. :clown:
Click to expand...

If 7/10 shots only go 10-15 yards there i no chance to have a reasonable strategy at all and hould go to the range or just not care. I just read what you wrote again and I think that is what you are trying to say.
 
OGputtnfool said:
So, let me ask. If you were doing this exercise, or watching someone do this, before a round and your 7i shots carried:

120, 130, 20, 20, 20, 170, 175, 20, 20, 120, 20, 180,

what distance would you use for your 7i distance, or recommend they use, for that day?
Click to expand...

Stay on the range
 
ntanygd760 said:
If 7/10 shots only go 10-15 yards there i no chance to have a reasonable strategy at all and hould go to the range or just not care. I just read what you wrote again and I think that is what you are trying to say.
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Negative. Going off the 3/10 pure (and I would use these numbers for me), I postulated 4 chunked, 1 thinned, and 2 "a little heavy".
 
OGputtnfool said:
I disagree. Let's go with the 7i/150 example. If, as you say, I only hit my 7i pure 3 times out of 10 (I'll use 3 for easy math) and I should select a 6i or 5i, I would ask, what happens on those other 7/10 shots? For me, I'd say, from experience, 4 of those 7 are likely chunked well short... like only going 10-15 yards. Two of those 7 are caught a little heavy and likely end up in the 125-130 range. The other shot is likely caught thin and either ends up long on the green or just over the back.

So, now, if I take a 6i and add 10 yards (just for an easy calculation). Now, 3 of my shots are going 160 yards and ending up back of the green or long, 2 of the shots are still coming up 10 yards or so short, the 4 shots that I chunked well short are... well, still well short because I chunked the **** out of them, and the one that I thinned is likely further off the back of the green.

I think you can see that it's not gonna help much to go to a 5i either. Bottom line, I think it still helps to know the distance you need to hit the ball. The one caveat to that is if you don't know your distances for your irons. If that's the case, then just go hit something because you obviously are just out there for fun anyway. :clown:
Click to expand...

From 150 yards someone chunking 1/3rd of their shots 10-15 yards should not be on a regulation length golf course.
That person should learn some proper technique and practice same at home and, or, the driving range. For playing golf par 3 courses are an ideal place for beginners and, or, players trying to attain some reasonable shot making consistency.
 
OGputtnfool said:
So, let me ask. If you were doing this exercise, or watching someone do this, before a round and your 7i shots carried:

120, 130, 20, 20, 20, 170, 175, 20, 20, 120, 20, 180,

what distance would you use for your 7i distance, or recommend they use, for that day?
Click to expand...

Out of a dozen shots to a target 150 yards away half of them are duffed 20 yards? Instead of stepping on a regulation length golf course that player should take some golf lessons , spend lots of time practicing, and play his rounds at par 3 courses.
 
DG_1234 said:
From 150 yards someone chunking 1/3rd of their shots 10-15 yards should not be on a regulation length golf course.
That person should learn some proper technique and practice same at home and, or, the driving range. For playing golf par 3 courses are an ideal place for beginners and, or, players trying to attain some reasonable shot making consistency.
Click to expand...

Actually, it was 40% of the shots, but who's counting? Makes no difference really whether you're playing a 7200 yard course or a short, 1400 yard, nine hole, par 3 course. It's about knowing which club to pick.

You call:

1 ball carries 160
1 ball carries 155
1 ball carries 150
2 balls carry 145
5 balls carry 140
1 balls carries 135
1 balls carries 130

"reasonable shot making consistency"?

You still didn't answer the question posed above re: what distance to use for 7i after that range session.

EDIT: Nevermind, we were typing at the same time.
 
DG_1234 said:
Out of a dozen shots to a target 150 yards away half of them are duffed 20 yards? Instead of stepping on a regulation length golf course that player should take some golf lessons , spend lots of time practicing, and play his rounds at par 3 courses.
Click to expand...


Eh, he's in the middle of a swing change and already signed up for his first tournament with his new swing. Gotta make a decision. He "has it" sometimes, but still having issues chunking the ball. So, what distance should he go with?
 
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