Do away with yardage indicators of all types, basically?

ntanygd760 said:

Stay on the range

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I don't want to be rude or combative, but with this logic you're basically saying anyone with a cap above about a 20 should not play golf? Hitting clubs inconsistently is basically what makes a higher handicap player what they are.

I don't want to be disrespectful so please clarify what you mean by your statement.

OGputtnfool said:

Not an option. Already registered for big tournament.

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Well you are totally ****ed but we can play the optimal numbers game and you need to use 170 a your number and hit wedge wedge if coming up short is a penalty stroke guaranteed.

MagicSpell said:

I don't want to be rude or combative, but with this logic you're basically saying anyone with a cap above about a 20 should not play golf? Hitting clubs inconsistently is basically what makes a higher handicap player what they are.

I don't want to be disrespectful so please clarify what you mean by your statement.

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I was answering the question from an optimal perspective of playing golf and caring about the score in a tournament. There is no way to come up with a good strategy with those numbers in a tournament. What I should have said was stay on the rage if you care about the score or play golf for fun.(and there is nothing wrong with that and I am more than willing to tee up with anyone, no matter their skill level)

The point is, taking more club is not always the best option and definitely not the fix-it-all. Even if player is routinely coming up short, simply grabbing more club is not enough to ensure he won't still come up short. If he's coming up well short, then taking more club can actually be more detrimental than just coming up short.

OGputtnfool said:

The point is, taking more club is not always the best option and definitely not the fix-it-all. Even if player is routinely coming up short, simply grabbing more club is not enough to ensure he won't still come up short. If he's coming up well short, then taking more club can actually be more detrimental than just coming up short.

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Yeah if those are truly your 10 shot numbers then more club won't work. The more club advise is more for a yardage distribution of a typical miss like 170, 165, 160, 160, 155, 150, 150, 145, 145, 120

ntanygd760 said:

Yeah if those are truly your 10 shot numbers then more club won't work. The more club advise is more for a yardage distribution of a typical miss like 170, 165, 160, 160, 155, 150, 150, 145, 145, 120

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What would "the yardage" be for the club with that distribution? 160?

OGputtnfool said:

What would "the yardage" be for the club with that distribution? 160?

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I would say 150 or 155 depending on the better miss and pin location.

ntanygd760 said:

I would say 150 or 155 depending on the better miss and pin location.

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I see what you did there, but I don't think you can do that AND advocate for taking more club. If you take those distances and extrapolate based on 12 yard gaps between each iron, you'll see that if you use 150 and pull 7i, then 5/10 shots will be within <10 yards from your target (150). However, if you take extra club and pull 6i, now you're only getting 2 shots <10 yards from your intended target. Furthermore, your misses are going to, more often than not, be long instead of short. I think you're almost always better off with a miss short instead of a miss long. With most greens slanted back to front and many having difficult shots to attempt to get U&D from beyond the green, I'd say short is a better miss than long most of the time.

DG_1234 said:

From 150 yards someone chunking 1/3rd of their shots 10-15 yards should not be on a regulation length golf course.
That person should learn some proper technique and practice same at home and, or, the driving range. For playing golf par 3 courses are an ideal place for beginners and, or, players trying to attain some reasonable shot making consistency.

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DG_1234 said:

Out of a dozen shots to a target 150 yards away half of them are duffed 20 yards? Instead of stepping on a regulation length golf course that player should take some golf lessons , spend lots of time practicing, and play his rounds at par 3 courses.

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Honestly....one doesnt have to be held from playing a full course if they end up chunking a percentage of (would be) approach shots. The argument is not relevant and with due respect can be rediculous. Thats llike saying dont come to a full course unless you can shoot a 90. Plenty of people are out there shooting 100+ and as long as they can hit the ball somewhat imo they have good reason to be out there playing and practicing. What do you think higher cappers often do? Very many spray and chunk and blade and whatever else a good percentage of shots. Its one thing to argue it when one is out there with no kowledge or ability to hit but ony a few balls decently. But having some ability to hit a decent percentage imo is enough to warrant play. But this is a different argument and probably somewhat off topic.

OGputtnfool said:

I see what you did there, but I don't think you can do that AND advocate for taking more club. If you take those distances and extrapolate based on 12 yard gaps between each iron, you'll see that if you use 150 and pull 7i, then 5/10 shots will be within <10 yards from your target (150). However, if you take extra club and pull 6i, now you're only getting 2 shots <10 yards from your intended target. Furthermore, your misses are going to, more often than not, be long instead of short. I think you're almost always better off with a miss short instead of a miss long. With most greens slanted back to front and many having difficult shots to attempt to get U&D from beyond the green, I'd say short is a better miss than long most of the time.

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I just use my typical yardage off game golf adjusted for temperature honestly. My home course is like you said back to front slopes and not much trouble short so I totally agree with a lot of that. I honestly don't worry about missing long unless it is a back pin as above the hole isn't death as long as it is on the green.

I also don't use the take an extra club theory as I trust my yardages enough. The only way I do that is if I am carrying a hazard then give myself an extra 5 yards or so. Like I said I use typical numbers which is basically median. If half my shots were chunks that went 20% of how far I was trying to hit I have no clue what I would do besides practice more. Hard to play for that

ntanygd760 said:

I just use my typical yardage off game golf adjusted for temperature honestly. My home course is like you said back to front slopes and not much trouble short so I totally agree with a lot of that. I honestly don't worry about missing long unless it is a back pin as above the hole isn't death as long as it is on the green.

I also don't use the take an extra club theory as I trust my yardages enough. The only way I do that is if I am carrying a hazard then give myself an extra 5 yards or so. Like I said I use typical numbers which is basically median. If half my shots were chunks that went 20% of how far I was trying to hit I have no clue what I would do besides practice more. Hard to play for that

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I think we agree on most of this. My comment about taking more club stems from someone a while back saying that pros in pro-ams said that most amateurs were short and that meant they needed to take more club (presumably on all approach shots). I'm just saying that might not be the best course of action in most cases. Now, I'm sure there are some guys who, for one reason or another, like to think they hit their irons further than they really do. For them, just getting in the mindset of taking more club might help.

I also imagine the effect is magnified in pro-ams where someone doesn't want to be seen pulling a hybrid from 175 so they hit an iron harder and just doesn't work.


In general we agree on this though.

OGputtnfool said:

The point is, taking more club is not always the best option and definitely not the fix-it-all. Even if player is routinely coming up short, simply grabbing more club is not enough to ensure he won't still come up short. If he's coming up well short, then taking more club can actually be more detrimental than just coming up short.

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In general , amateurs playing bogey golf (or worse) typically take too little club and miss greens short.
This is why Tour pros often say the number one fault they see amateurs make is "taking too little club".
No one has suggested taking more club is a "fix all". It's simply a good sense strategy to helping players hit more greens in regulation (and speed up pace of play). The very few players who actually have the discipline to play more club usually soon realize the benefits of not only hitting more greens, but also improved swing tempo and rhythm.
As for the risk of "going long", most 85+ scoring players I see are consistently mishitting their approach shots and, or par 3 tee shots by 15 to 20 yards. Playing one more club is not going to do any harm. In some cases 2 extra clubs ( 5-iron instead of 7-iron) will likely leave the player closer to the hole.

DG_1234 said:

In general , amateurs playing bogey golf (or worse) typically take too little club and miss greens short.
This is why Tour pros often say the number one fault they see amateurs make is "taking too little club".
No one has suggested taking more club is a "fix all". It's simply a good sense strategy to helping players hit more greens in regulation (and speed up pace of play). The very few players who actually have the discipline to play more club usually soon realize the benefits of not only hitting more greens, but also improved swing tempo and rhythm.
As for the risk of "going long", most 85+ scoring players I see are consistently mishitting their approach shots and, or par 3 tee shots by 15 to 20 yards. Playing one more club is not going to do any harm. In some cases 2 extra clubs ( 5-iron instead of 7-iron) will likely leave the player closer to the hole.

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Firstly....lets not bring pace of play into amateurs chosing distance. I mean really.......problematic slow players are a problem regardless and players who move do so regardless as well. It its the same with tee choice and a number of things. If your a slow priblem then you will be one regardless. if your not a slow problem you wont be regardless.

I agree with a number of things OG said. Misses by many amateurs are not only about being short. Very many miss, fat,thin, and certainly left/right dispersion as well. Hoestly its usually more often the short miss that is least detrimental of the misses. Left/right can often mean a bunker or worse like down a hill and into woods/weeds or under a tree, or taller rough etc..or having to come back over a bunker, whatever the case. Being short (with exception of water or front bunker) is usually just a fairway or apron lie. The shorter miss even if left/right doesnrt travel as far either, so that even keeps those somewhat dispersed shots more in play and with a better lie scenario. So honestly while taking more club "may" mean a couple/few more greens at most it could and imo would also mean worse scenarios for a good percentage of missed shots than they would otherwise be if not taking the extra club. And that would lead to more shots and also more difficult ones than simply missing short.

But over all I just dont beleive mishits should determine club choice for distance. Certainly one can be longer or shorter on a Given day in a given round and adjust accordingly to that and also weather and conditions too. fwiw one can also be favoring a left or right miss that day and should adjust as well. But those are all different in nature than outright mishits. But you just cant imo include poorer shots or failure to execute decently enough in the equation when choosing club and distance. Im often missing greens left and right but pin high and honestly there are tons of times i wish my miss was short instead. Not to say i dont miss short cause i certainly do as well.

By your logic I should then use my currently struggling driver on a shorter dog leg all because Ive had more poorer shots than good ones. i dont use driver that I hit 240 to 260's when working well enough when on a leg that bends at 220. Reason being is because if I hit it sell enough but dont bend it i will be through the leg and into the woods. I cant use that club just because Ive had many shorter than normal shots with it this season. I cant base my selection on that fact. i still have to base it on the fact that when hit well enough its too long for that hole. Its really the same thing here when it comes to approach shots. For the mid and higher capper we really do imo have to look at what our distances are for the better portion of our inconsistent play.

I dont know......but maybe Im just coming from a view where as I am very often pin high as long as I make a decent enough strike. Of course left and right alot yes but often pin high. Ill also have my ocassional rarer days when Im carrying longer than normal and Ill be like WTF everything seems to be long today. Its certainly the lessor of days thst this happens but it does happen. Thenn of course days when my swing is just bad but thats not always short either but may consist of bad chunks and blades, etc... and yes when struck somewhat better on those poorer days it can still often be short. But I really beleive we need to select clubs based on the better half of our ability. Not the poorer half of our ability which should not be included in the equation. Our goal is to strike the ball well enough and that is how we should select our clubs imo.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.