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High MOI

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I thought this was also an interesting image from that same article. I am not one to group people based on handicap but it does give an idea of just how much we do miss.

MOI1.gif
 
lightningbolt44 said:
I thought this was also an interesting image from that same article. I am not one to group people based on handicap but it does give an idea of just how much we do miss.

MOI1.gif
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I didn't link that because I thought the opinion of putting skill and handicap was too subjective. i know plenty of high caps who are excellent putters.

That said, I think that image is a great reflection on the various levels of putting skill for sure.
 
Canadan said:
I didn't link that because I thought the opinion of putting skill and handicap was too subjective. i know plenty of high caps who are excellent putters.

That said, I think that image is a great reflection on the various levels of putting skill for sure.
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That is kind of how I feel as well I just wanted to link it to show when talking about a miss it doesnt mean way way out on the toe or the heel
 
Canadan said:
I think you're misunderstanding the concept of MOI (as in moment of inertia/contact, not moment of stroke). I've done a bit of reading, and can draw this image from an article on GolfWorks.

MOI is generated in this sample by weight (and not design)... Suggesting that heavier putters -- seemingly regardless of design -- improve MOI in putters. That is interesting and validates some of the tank designs that use blade model putters.

You're pretty focused on design as a driver of MOI in total, but I think there's a lot more to it than that. Your same bladed putter in a 'tank' or 'heavy' model is going to have higher MOI based on research than a regular weighted blade of the same design... Both would have similar gating and toe hang profiles.
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As I have mentioned, I believe there are two places that MOI can be referenced; during the stroke and at impact. MOI for this discussion is defined as how much a putter rotates around its axis. The higher the MOI the slower it rotates and at impact the less it will want to rotate based on off center impact.. I agree with you that given then same design a heavier putter will have a higher MOI. The additional weight will result in the putter not wanting to rotate as fast as the putter that weighs less even though toe hang is the same. I could theoretically also move the COG on two equally weighted putters and change the MOI. This is why toe hang is not always a good measure of a properly fit putter.

Charts can be useful but based on your interpretation of MOI, why would I want a putter with a high MOI? I have tried several high MOI putters and my tendency is to miss right with them What would your suggestion be to bring my ball back to the left and how is the high MOI beneficial to me?
 
cnosil said:
As I have mentioned, I believe there are two places that MOI can be referenced; during the stroke and at impact. MOI for this discussion is defined as how much a putter rotates around its axis. The higher the MOI the slower it rotates and at impact the less it will want to rotate based on off center impact.. I agree with you that given then same design a heavier putter will have a higher MOI. The additional weight will result in the putter not wanting to rotate as fast as the putter that weighs less even though toe hang is the same. I could theoretically also move the COG on two equally weighted putters and change the MOI. This is why toe hang is not always a good measure of a properly fit putter.

Charts can be useful but based on your interpretation of MOI, why would I want a putter with a high MOI? I have tried several high MOI putters and my tendency is to miss right with them What would your suggestion be to bring my ball back to the left and how is the high MOI beneficial to me?
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If you're an amazing putter, per LightningBolt's post, you've got no reason to pursue high MOI putters.. Just like amazing ball strikers have no reason to pursue SGI irons.

But I don't how "moment of INERTIA" could ever be related to a stroke motion.
 
Canadan said:
But I don't how "moment of INERTIA" could ever be related to a stroke motion.
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When you make a putting stroke, the putter will try to rotate around its axis. How easily the putter rotates defines its moment of inertia.

Think of a figure skater. When there arms are pulled in they spin faster and when they extend their arms they spin slower. By extending their arms out they have redistributed the weight outward and increase the MOI.
 
I have a question about the CURE MOI chart if anybody knows. It shows the original Anser - which hasn't changed much design wise - with a much lower MOI than the Newport 2 (Anser 2). The designs of the heads aren't that different to warrant such a difference in MOI I would think. Does that seem off to anybody else?
 
Sooner21 said:
I have a question about the CURE MOI chart if anybody knows. It shows the original Anser - which hasn't changed much design wise - with a much lower MOI than the Newport 2 (Anser 2). The designs of the heads aren't that different to warrant such a difference in MOI I would think. Does that seem off to anybody else?
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Well a few things the Original Anser was lighter than the Scotty by a good bit which as Canadan went into can increase MOI also the Scotty moves some of the weight to the heel and Toe with the removable weights. It is a good example of how a putter can appear the same but the slight differences raise or lower the MOI.
 
lightningbolt44 said:
Well a few things the Original Anser was lighter than the Scotty by a good bit which as Canadan went into can increase MOI also the Scotty moves some of the weight to the heel and Toe with the removable weights. It is a good example of how a putter can appear the same but the slight differences raise or lower the MOI.
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That doesn't really explain much. The Newport 2 came out before the interchangeable weights, and were around the same headweight (TeI3 for example).
 
Sooner21 said:
That doesn't really explain much. The Newport 2 came out before the interchangeable weights, and were around the same headweight (TeI3 for example).
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That chart is new so guessing that is the current model Newport 2 with the weights.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
 
If so that would make sense. I'm guessing that if they weighed the same the MOI would be about the same for both. I'm thinking more along the lines of a custom putter maker like Byron or Kari that has options for the Anser and Anser 2 designs.
lightningbolt44 said:
That chart is new so guessing that is the current model Newport 2 with the weights.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
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Sooner21 said:
If so that would make sense. I'm guessing that if they weighed the same the MOI would be about the same for both. I'm thinking more along the lines of a custom putter maker like Byron or Kari that has options for the Anser and Anser 2 designs.
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You don't see a ton of customs come out below 350 now even I play mine at 340 and that tends to be the lightest you see. So I think it would fall between the anser and Newport (just a guess on that based on normal weight of the Putters coming out)

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For me the MOI putter ls perform better at longer distances. When I game my Cure I seem to sink a 20 footer or two. Still getting used to the size and sound but I believe the tech is there. That being said i put 40grm weights in one of my Scotty's and that has made a world of difference as well.
 
I'm in the camp that likes a lighter putter also -330-340g. I'm about to pull the trigger on a custom and that chart just threw me off some as far as head shape on an anser or anser 2.

lightningbolt44 said:
You don't see a ton of customs come out below 350 now even I play mine at 340 and that tends to be the lightest you see. So I think it would fall between the anser and Newport (just a guess on that based on normal weight of the Putters coming out)

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
 
cnosil said:
When you make a putting stroke, the putter will try to rotate around its axis. How easily the putter rotates defines its moment of inertia.

Think of a figure skater. When there arms are pulled in they spin faster and when they extend their arms they spin slower. By extending their arms out they have redistributed the weight outward and increase the MOI.
Click to expand...

We use the figure skater example all the time - Weight distribution is key...
 
Sooner21 said:
That doesn't really explain much. The Newport 2 came out before the interchangeable weights, and were around the same headweight (TeI3 for example).
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You would probably have to do more analysis on the heads. Would need to look at COG to see how weight is distributed, neck length, etc.
 
Great conversation on MOI - A few thoughts before I head to Orlando for the PGA show...

In addition to the reduced twisting on mishits / forgiveness, our extremely High MOI also imparts stability to the stroke itself. We've done a lot of lab testing using Quintic labs with players of all skill levels and 100% of the players we have tested have seen a dramatic reduction in face angle variation at impact using a Cure vs their current gamer. Avg. reduction is 50% or more - That means you are starting the ball closer to your intended line and will have a tighter dispersion L/R. The forgiveness gives more consistent distance control. So all other things being equal, you're going to end up closer to the hole and going to see more consistent results.

Cure's Higher MOI keeps the putter more stable and aligned to your stroke path, regardless of arc type. (see above, Reduced face angle variation)

Since all Cure Putters have weight concentrated in the heel and toe, MOI increases as weight is added. We've found in our lab testing that everyone has an ideal weight that best suits their stroke - Very often than that ideal weight is heavier than what is currently available otr.

Our dramatically Higher MOI, plus the ability to optimize weight and adjust the lie angle (RX Series) sets us apart from the other High MOI putters in the industry. And for what it's worth, we've made significant improvements to the look, feels and sound of our 2016 putters.

This video from 2015 covers a lot - including the lab testing results on Face angle variation and Putter speed

 
Cure Putters said:
In addition to the reduced twisting on mishits / forgiveness, our extremely High MOI also imparts stability to the stroke itself. We've done a lot of lab testing using Quintic labs with players of all skill levels and 100% of the players we have tested have seen a dramatic reduction in face angle variation at impact using a Cure vs their current gamer. Avg. reduction is 50% or more - That means you are starting the ball closer to your intended line and will have a tighter dispersion L/R. The forgiveness gives more consistent distance control. So all other things being equal, you're going to end up closer to the hole and going to see more consistent results.

Cure's Higher MOI keeps the putter more stable and aligned to your stroke path, regardless of arc type. (see above, Reduced face angle variation)
Click to expand...

This is exactly what I noticed when switching to Cure last year. The ball starts on line more often, speed control is better, which equals more made putts and less 3 putts.
 
Canadan said:
It is fantastic to have a company take the time to come in here and share insight on testing. Thanks, Cure!
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Glad to be part of the conversation. We may not be quite as responsive over the next week as we'll be busy with the PGA show, but look forward to sharing more on this topic...
Thanks!
 
Canadan said:
It is fantastic to have a company take the time to come in here and share insight on testing. Thanks, Cure!
Click to expand...

It's awesome to have an OEM come I here and talks facts and put to bed any misconceptions about MOI in putters. Straight from the source and can't argue science/facts
 
Cure Putters said:
This video from 2015 covers a lot - including the lab testing results on Face angle variation and Putter speed

Click to expand...



Thanks for the video, very informative. The video talks about "face angle variation at impact" and I was hoping you could provide some additional information on that measurement. What exactly are you measuring? My assumption would be the difference between where the putter is pointing at address vs. where it is pointing at impact and that with your putter the difference between those two is less. For me the thing that seems to be missing is the initial alignment measurement for each of those players. Meaning if the player is aligned left or right, your putter will continue to send the ball left or right; just more consistently. Not that that is a bad thing, it just forces the player to have a square setup and "perfect" alignment which potentially means I need to change the way I putt to match your putter. This is a similar approach that Seemore takes with their putters which is set everything up square and keep the putter square to the putters path. If that is the case, how do you address players that don't have a shoulder driven stroke and power their putters with the left or right side which will potentially requires the putter to open or closed to the path at impact?

Thanks and I hope you have great success at the PGA show. Looking forward to finding one of your putters near me so I can give it a try.
 
Love seeing OEMs joining conversations and providing knowledge. Makes this place awesome.
 
The Milk Man said:
This is exactly what I noticed when switching to Cure last year. The ball starts on line more often, speed control is better, which equals more made putts and less 3 putts.
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I'm kicking myself for not taking some rolls w/ the Cure putters in Savannah after hearing you talk about them.

Also love Cure coming in here to weigh in on the topic - thanks!
 
cnosil said:
Thanks for the video, very informative. The video talks about "face angle variation at impact" and I was hoping you could provide some additional information on that measurement. What exactly are you measuring? My assumption would be the difference between where the putter is pointing at address vs. where it is pointing at impact and that with your putter the difference between those two is less. For me the thing that seems to be missing is the initial alignment measurement for each of those players. Meaning if the player is aligned left or right, your putter will continue to send the ball left or right; just more consistently. Not that that is a bad thing, it just forces the player to have a square setup and "perfect" alignment which potentially means I need to change the way I putt to match your putter. This is a similar approach that Seemore takes with their putters which is set everything up square and keep the putter square to the putters path. If that is the case, how do you address players that don't have a shoulder driven stroke and power their putters with the left or right side which will potentially requires the putter to open or closed to the path at impact?

Thanks and I hope you have great success at the PGA show. Looking forward to finding one of your putters near me so I can give it a try.
Click to expand...

So you are basically saying you have a permanent flaw that you want to match the putter to how you currently putt? And a putter that helps you square your putter head at impact because of that actually hurts you? I'm just trying to understand what you are getting at, because I am slightly confused regarding this comment.
 
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