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Will New Flagstick Rule Slow Down Golf?

JB

JB

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A friend called me yesterday about his round in his league and said that with the new rule, it was slowing things down and I couldn't figure out why. I figured without question it speeds it up. He said in his foursome, two players wanted to putt with it in half the time and two wanted it out. So it was a constant thing on every hole.

Do you think we see anything like this or was this merely an extreme with something new to play around with?
 
Interesting, I figured it would speed things up but I guess with people wanting it both ways. It makes sense
 
JB said:
A friend called me yesterday about his round in his league and said that with the new rule, it was slowing things down and I couldn't figure out why. I figured without question it speeds it up. He said in his foursome, two players wanted to putt with it in half the time and two wanted it out. So it was a constant thing on every hole.

Do you think we see anything like this or was this merely an extreme with something new to play around with?
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That's a tough call, and I'll say I hadn't considered it. I would hope that it doesn't slow down play. I'm not sure how much it slowed down their round, but if it was noticeable, why not just have someone tend the flag?
 
In league play, you will have those guys spending 3 minutes over a 3 foot putt, so flagstick issue probably had NOTHING to do with time to play. I would guess that since it was a "new" rule, people were focused on only that and blamed a non-issue.
 
Slow players slow down golf. This flag stick rule won't slow things down. Additionally, from an etiquette standpoint, there should be a consensus and the default should be flag out.
 
When you have people within the foursome that don't want the same thing, someone is going to have to remove the flag, place the flag, remove it, place it, especially when not in order. I can definitely see how that slows things up. That can cause fast players to slow down and slow players to get even slower. Ugh, that would be annoying and tedious. Good luck with getting everyone on the same page too.
 
I just don't see how it slows it down. In my opinion I would only see leaving it in on longer putts where you have to hit it harder or can't see the hole anyways. No way I'm taking the chance the flag stick isn't sitting perfectly straight and that ball bouncing out.
 
The play should be unaffected by it. Play it as normal like we do now. If a guy is off on the fringe, he has the option. But once everyone is on the green, there needs to be a consensus that the flag should be out. Not this "put it in for me but take it out for him." Hopefully most people don't think about the rule & just play golf as normal. Then if a long putt is made with the flag in .... "Oh yeah, that's the rule now .... so I'm not charged a penalty stroke." It just happens every so often.
 
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jdtox said:
I just don't see how it slows it down. In my opinion I would only see leaving it in on longer putts where you have to hit it harder or can't see the hole anyways. No way I'm taking the chance the flag stick isn't sitting perfectly straight and that ball bouncing out.
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That was my thought. Then I started diving into it for competition format. Take flag out and move off of lines. Put flag back in and move off of lines. Repeat for 2-3 putts per hole. I think there could be something to it in that situation.
 
jdtox said:
I just don't see how it slows it down. In my opinion I would only see leaving it in on longer putts where you have to hit it harder or can't see the hole anyways. No way I'm taking the chance the flag stick isn't sitting perfectly straight and that ball bouncing out.
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Funny thing is Dave Pelz says leave it in whenever possible, even if it's leaning.

puttingrules.jpg
 
We’ll probably have to put a rule in our leagues for people who are interested in keeping the flag into putt out once they start.

Technically it’s what we tell people to do now anyway, but everyone throws a coin down and stares at whoever is farther at away.
 
golfinnut said:
Funny thing is Dave Pelz says leave it in whenever possible, even if it's leaning.

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Yeah I've seen that mentioned. I have no reason to doubt him, obviously the man knows his stuff but from my own experience I don't see it that way. The best use of this rule in my personal opinion is when you are on the green but your partners are not. You can line up your putt and hit it without penalty while they are surveying their chip shots or walking up to the green. This should speed up play not slow it down. Maybe I'm totally wrong but I just don't see too many people leaving it in otherwise, we have all been trained for so long to pull it out.
 
jdtox said:
Yeah I've seen that mentioned. I have no reason to doubt him, obviously the man knows his stuff but from my own experience I don't see it that way. The best use of this rule in my personal opinion is when you are on the green but your partners are not. You can line up your putt and hit it without penalty while they are surveying their chip shots or walking up to the green. This should speed up play not slow it down. Maybe I'm totally wrong but I just don't see too many people leaving it in otherwise, we have all been trained for so long to pull it out.
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This is exactly how I saw it, although you have to hope that the players actually do that.
 
Just like with any new rule, it will take a while for people to remember and get accustomed to it.
 
Depends how adamant people are about their preferences... I prefer the flagstick in whenever I can get it. If someone in my group has already asked for it to be pulled, though, I don't make them put it back in for me. If you get people doing the "out for me"/"in for me" thing on every putt, it's going to slow things down.
 
golfinnut said:
Funny thing is Dave Pelz says leave it in whenever possible, even if it's leaning.

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And then more time is taken by guys going up and analyzing flagstick lean and walking on lines. I'm hoping we all just keep playing the way we are but realizing it will be penalty free in the future if it happens.
 
If you have some people insisting it is left in and others who insist it is removed, then yes, I can see it slowing play down
 
I'm willing to assume nothing will really change other than people not having to tend the flag on long putts.
 
I think it can slow it down if you have instances where people insist of taking it out, then the next insists on putting it back in. Maybe play "ready golf" on the green with "pin in" players first, then when they finish either offer to tend or pull the pin out. Of course that would need a consensus amongst the entire group first.

Personally I will experiment with it out of curiosity but will probably just go with the flow of the group if everyone is one way or the other.
 
I think they should have put a caveat in the rule. Cause I really think it's designed for the single player. Think about it. When I'm out walking 9 holes (HA :act-up: ... walking!) I would hit on the green, walk up and putt out without ever removing the flag just to speed up play so I could get in as many holes as possible.
 
I think it is more a psychological issue then a pace of play issue. Right now you have guys deciding whether or not to keep the flag in on putts or chips on the collar.
 
Interesting mental note for me on the practice putting greens but I would always leave the little mini pins in when putting, esp. 5-7 footers because mentally I would try and hit the flag pole to make sure I was hitting through the putt. Then as soon as I would pull those pins out I would end up being short of the hole trying to die the putt in. Didn't really think about that until now.
 
Interesting. I never thought it would slow things down, but I can see it if everyone wants to do something different. I wonder if there should be a rule that if you want the stick in you have to putt first or something. Who knows we'll see how these new rules change some things.
 
I think it could slow things down for sure if everyone wants something different. Next year I think I’m just going to keep it in all the time unless there are people in the group the last want it out, then I’ll play with it out. I’m guessing most of the people I play with won’t even realize or know they’re now allowed to keep it in.
 
I can see this becoming an issue, on the tour as well, the rule was not intended for this purpose but obviously players are going to take advantage and sort of make a mockery of the game, like DeChambeau who has said he may leave the flag in for all putts in 2019.

If you do this in the groups I play with players will look at you with a scowl and ask WTF are you doing? once the flag hits the ground it stays there until everyone is done putting.
 
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